He told me that he's stocked 300-400 fish in a 20 gallon, I accidentally wrote 10g
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Newly cycled 45 gallon aquarium - live plants?
- Thread starter steelo
- Start date
Introduced 6 rasboras and 2 more neons, they seem quite happy!
What we don't know here is what species, and what maintenance. Fish store stocking is not the same as home aquaria stocking. Fish stores intend (or at least hope) that the fish will be sold quickly. At home, you are providing the final home for the fish you acquire, and they will live and then die [I mean naturally, at the end of their life, hopefully not sooner] in your tanks. No one can expect to maintain fish permanently in temporary conditions like the stores.
There are discus breeders who overstock fry tanks, but they perform 985% partial water changes two or three times every day. The fish grow faster, so they can sell them sooner. But this is certainly not how they should be housed at home for the rest of their lives.
That's not good. I doubt that he kept them that way for any significant length of time... for a variety of reasons... either he sold a bunch, or a bunch died from being overcrowded. They could barely swim in that level of stocking...
And this is where we on this forum will warn you to beware of advice that you receive from a shop owner. He wants to sell you fish. If you are fully stocked at 25 fish in your tank and already have 20 fish... then what does that mean for him? If he can convince you to put another 50 fish in the tank... then what does that mean for him?
Can I ask a silly question - what are tetra minor? Google comes up with serpae tetras, also known as red minor tetras. If these are the fish you have, be warned that they are one of the nippiest tetras in the hobby and they should be kept in a large shoal to try and keep the nippiness within their own group.
Based on the picture thats what they are.
Agree, the species is Hyphessobrycon eques, and it is seen under common names like Serpae, Red Minor. Its history is certainly varied with respect to taxonomy.
This species is closely related to some 30 Hyphessobrycon species [Weitzman & Palmer (1997) referred to this species group as the rosy tetra clade] that includes H. bentosi, H. rosaceus, H. megalopterus [Black Phantom], H. sweglesi and H. erythrostigma ["bleeding hearts"] to name but a few. It shares the common traits of a black dorsal fin and a dark (in this species black) humeral or shoulder blotch immediately posterior of the gillcover, and (usually) a red body colouration. The shade of red varies on fish from different geographical regions. The dorsal is edged in white. This species is readily discerned from all the other rosy tetra species by the dark colour pattern on the posterior part of the anal fin that expands from the black distal (furtherest from the body) border of this fin. Weitzman & Palmer (1997) note that this dark pattern is somewhat variable on wild-caught specimens from different locations.
Most of the fish of this species now available in the hobby are commercially raised and differ from wild-caught fish with respect to the dark shoulder or humeral patch. Commercially bred fish are descended from hybrids (perhaps unintentionally) of fish from different geographical areas, and the patch is shorter or all but absent on most; on wild-caught fish, this patch is black, elongate and slightly triangular.
This fish has gone through several name changes, being placed in four different genera before being assigned to Hyphessobrycon by Weitzman & Palmer (1997). Within this genus, the names H. callistus and H. serpae are now recognized as synonyms of H. eques and not valid distinct species; fish still appear in stores under these synonyms.
Authors that have recently studied the systematics of the genus Hyphessobrycon (and Hemigrammus, both of which hold wellover a hundred species) have unanimously pointed out that the group is not well defined and it is polyphyletic. [A monophyletic genus is one wherein the species share a common ancestor, thus linking them together physiologically; a polyphyletic genus has species descended from different ancestors so the species are less closely relateed.] Mirande (2009) for example has proposed several revisions to the family Characidae based upon phylogenetic diagnosis. Some genera have been moved to a new subfamily, while others are now (temporarily) assigned to a specific clade within the family pending further study. The recognition of groups of species [clades] within Hyphessobrycon is based primarily on similarities of color patterns; an hypothesis of its intra-relationships is currently unavailable. Hyphessobrycon has until recently been differentiated from Hemigrammus solely on the basis of the fish in Hemigrammus possessing a scaled caudal fin; this however is now known to be unreliable, since it occurs in intermediate conditions (de Lucina, 2003).
This species is closely related to some 30 Hyphessobrycon species [Weitzman & Palmer (1997) referred to this species group as the rosy tetra clade] that includes H. bentosi, H. rosaceus, H. megalopterus [Black Phantom], H. sweglesi and H. erythrostigma ["bleeding hearts"] to name but a few. It shares the common traits of a black dorsal fin and a dark (in this species black) humeral or shoulder blotch immediately posterior of the gillcover, and (usually) a red body colouration. The shade of red varies on fish from different geographical regions. The dorsal is edged in white. This species is readily discerned from all the other rosy tetra species by the dark colour pattern on the posterior part of the anal fin that expands from the black distal (furtherest from the body) border of this fin. Weitzman & Palmer (1997) note that this dark pattern is somewhat variable on wild-caught specimens from different locations.
Most of the fish of this species now available in the hobby are commercially raised and differ from wild-caught fish with respect to the dark shoulder or humeral patch. Commercially bred fish are descended from hybrids (perhaps unintentionally) of fish from different geographical areas, and the patch is shorter or all but absent on most; on wild-caught fish, this patch is black, elongate and slightly triangular.
This fish has gone through several name changes, being placed in four different genera before being assigned to Hyphessobrycon by Weitzman & Palmer (1997). Within this genus, the names H. callistus and H. serpae are now recognized as synonyms of H. eques and not valid distinct species; fish still appear in stores under these synonyms.
Authors that have recently studied the systematics of the genus Hyphessobrycon (and Hemigrammus, both of which hold wellover a hundred species) have unanimously pointed out that the group is not well defined and it is polyphyletic. [A monophyletic genus is one wherein the species share a common ancestor, thus linking them together physiologically; a polyphyletic genus has species descended from different ancestors so the species are less closely relateed.] Mirande (2009) for example has proposed several revisions to the family Characidae based upon phylogenetic diagnosis. Some genera have been moved to a new subfamily, while others are now (temporarily) assigned to a specific clade within the family pending further study. The recognition of groups of species [clades] within Hyphessobrycon is based primarily on similarities of color patterns; an hypothesis of its intra-relationships is currently unavailable. Hyphessobrycon has until recently been differentiated from Hemigrammus solely on the basis of the fish in Hemigrammus possessing a scaled caudal fin; this however is now known to be unreliable, since it occurs in intermediate conditions (de Lucina, 2003).
Sorry, I meant to say minor tetras... Im finding out they're quite nippy...they seem to be eating off the fins of my neons and rasboras (to a lesser extent). Right now, I have a shoal of 8. I'm not sure what to do other than quarantine the hurt fish. The larger neons are still grouping together, eating normally and don't seem stressed.
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You have two options. Keep the Serpae (Red Minor) Tetras but alone, no other upper level fish, and get a few more. The nipping will bee confined to the species and with more of them may be less (or may not). The white edge to their caudal fins is due to nipping, it is the way they behave. Other species however can become seriously stressed and then further health problems and death will follow, guaranteed. So a tank of just the Serpaes.
Second option is to return the Serpae Tetra.
These fish will not stop nipping, it is their trait and fish do not change nor can they somehow be trained to act better.
Hi, thanks...it looks like I'm going to have to either give them away or flush them. I've lost 4 neons this morning and the others do not look good. They are for the most part leaving the rasboras alone. I think they are just a faster fish and are able to evade them better. I feel really awful for introducing these neons to a dangerous tank and was misinformed that all tetras are 'relatively peaceful' by Petsmart. I seriously doubt though that the pet shop will take them back.
Before I get rid of these fish though, do you think that the raspboras are causing any problems? I'd hate to give these fish away and not solve the issues.
Petsmart has a 14 day guarantee.
Please don't flush them... that's not acceptable talk around here.
And please don't believe things that LFS tell you on face value.
Please don't flush them... that's not acceptable talk around here.
And please don't believe things that LFS tell you on face value.
I won't flush them, if worst comes to worst I will post a craigslist ad and give them away to somebody who does not have any other fish.
Are the raspboras compatible with neons? I haven't notice any aggression, they pretty much keep to themselves.
I just called the petshop and they will take them back, so I am somewhat relieved. I just hope that the stress and damage to the other fish will heal...
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Harlequin rasboras and neons are good together. I've kept both successfully in the same tank. Harlys don't mess with anybody. Neons are pretty placid too.
Thanks, I haven't noticed any aggression or chasing outside of their own group. It does look like their fins have been nipped a bit by the minors...they don't look nearly as bad as the neons though. I'm returning the minors tonight before I lose any more fish. I am pretty furious that the guy who sold me the minor and neons at Petsmart said they'll be fine together. I purchased the rasboras and larger neons at another petshop and they look much healthier.
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It has already been said, but it cannot be said too often...never rely on advice from staff in chain pet stores (PetSmart) nor in other fish stores unless you know the knowledge level of the individual. When it comes to acquiring fish, mistakes can have serious consequences as you've seen here, and it pays to run the species/advice past this forum before making the purchase.
This is something we have all had to learn. Now you've learned it too, the hard way, but many years ago I had the same problem.
The bitten fins may regenerate once the fish are free of this stress.
This is something we have all had to learn. Now you've learned it too, the hard way, but many years ago I had the same problem.
The bitten fins may regenerate once the fish are free of this stress.
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