Newbie With Smallish Tank

[Megansdad]

I think I've made a huge mistake but want to make the best I can with it!

I just bought a Heto HR420 from eBay and it was described as a 55litre tank. THe description is below:

HETO AQUARIUM 55 LITRE FISH TANK WITH LIGHT, PUMP AND FILTER
INCLUDES BUILT IN LIGHT
1 X 11 WATT

BACK FILTER WITH MEDIA INCLUDED FOAM, CERMAIC AND CARBON FOR MULTI-STAGE FILTRATION

600LPH PUMP / 5.5 W

HINGED EASY ACCESS LID FOR FEEDING AND MAINTANANCE

DIMENSIONS: 420 x 400 x 430mm

Having not done enough research and being eager to get it set up, I've filled it with gravel, water, API Tap water treatment and six live plants.

It's been running for over a week now and then I discovered this forum!!!

I bought it so my daughter could see fish at home and I'm prepared to follow the appropriate procedures to look after the fish....my problem is that I'm stuck on what fish I should keep.

The dimensions bely the real size. Since it has a back filter, the actual internal volume of water that the fish have to survive in now the gravel is in situ is closer to 410mm (W) x 280mm (D) x 260mm (H) = 30litres or 7 imperial gallons. It may well hold 55litres, but the other 20 - 25 litres is sitting at the back with the filter.

I appreciate this is tiny and it was my mistake for not being smart enough to check in advance, however I can't return the item now that it's used and I want to make the best of it. Some people I have consulted outside of this forum have said it's a no-no for coldwater fish especially goldfish and fancies and I should stick a heater in and get tropicals.

My main question is: Can I use this for any coldwater fish without harming them or is my only answer to go tropical? If coldwater fish can survive in such a small volume tank what varieties can I go for and how many?


Please don't have a go at me, I've had enough of a noobie bashing from other experienced fish owners on other forums.

 

[Butch]

That's allright no problem.

Try these guys for coldwater but choose only one species:

Least killifish or dwarf livebearer.
Japanese Medaka.

If you were in United States...
Pygmy killifish
Pygmy sunfishes
Maybe even a dwarf crayfish or ghost shrimp.

For tropical:
Endlers (male only)
A betta
Red cherry shrimp
Few colorful snails such as leopard ramshorn snail, "horned" snail species or nerites but some nerite species are brackish water.

Im sure there's few nanofish laying here around.

 

[Colin_T]

you could put a couple of small (1 inch) fantail goldfish in the tank but they would outgrow it eventually and need a bigger home in the future.
Other fish to try include the Medaka, already mentioned. They come in a gold and green form and when they breed the female carries the eggs around under her belly. Eventually she wipes them onto some plants where they develop before hatching.
White Cloud Mountain Minnows are a nice little fish. They come in normal and long fin forms and also a gold form. The gold form isn't that nice the but long fin form is really lovely. They will breed in the tank and don't eat their eggs or young.
Bitterlings would be ok. They grow to a couple of inches long but 2 prs would be fine in the tank. If you add some freshwater mussels to the tank the bitterlings will lay their eggs inside the mussel and a little while later you get baby fish being spat out of the mussel.
A pr of Sticklebacks would be fine. They build a nest out of plant matter and the male guards it.
Zebra or leopard danios are usually fine.
Rosy barbs & Ruby barbs are usually fine in unheated tanks.
Paradise fish, but males are territorial and will kill each other off. So only one per tank.
Swordtails and platies will sometimes survive indoors in unheated tanks.

What country do you live in?

 

[Megansdad]

Try these guys for coldwater but choose only one species:

Least killifish or dwarf livebearer.
Japanese Medaka.

Butch thanks for the advice.

When you say, choose only one species, do you mean choose one type Killi (for example) and get say 2 or 3 of them?

Or do you mean, just get one killi and don't mix them with other Killi species.

It's a hard choice with killis as they are absolutely beautiful and it would be great to have two or three different ones (eventually). how long do they survive generally?

I was also looking at platys as they can be quite small and colourful.

Will these two get on well in the same tank or is one likely to be the aggressor?

 

[Megansdad]

Great, another good helpful response.

I live in London, UK.

How many of these smaller coldwater suited fish do you think my 30 - 32litre tank will support based on the dimensions I provided?

Am I right to assume that the tank is genuinely a 30 - 32litre useable tank as the other 18 - 20 litres is being processed in the huge back filter section?

I like the idea of the smaller Killis and Platys.

Should I get a third type? Will there be enough room for them?

Should I consider a snail too that might eat any algae, or will the fish have a problem with them? I've heard mention of apple snails being very good.

 

[Megansdad]

I would have loved to have had a fancy like an oranda or a black moor, but I hear these will outgrow my tank very quickly.

I want to maintain fish that won't outgrow the tank easily.

I apprecaite I have to be careful about some of these fish breeding and the eggs hatching etc.

However, I'm sure you guys can help me understand how to control this potential population explosion

 

[Butch]

Just get a female dwarf sunset platy and trio of japanese medaka. Maybe a ghost shrimp or a olive nerite snail as cleaning crew. And that's it, no more fish.

As for Colin...I does not agree with your advice about the fish.

Fantail goldfish is no-no as too messy and too big.
Rosy barbs need to be in groups of six and they are not small barbs either as they can reach 4 inch long. So no rosy barbs. Danios? Bad idea as they need lots of space as they are actively swimming fish and again like rosy barbs, they need in be groups of 6. Bitterling's nice fish but they are schooling fishes and they can reach up to 3 inch long. White cloud mountain minnows are good idea as for that size of your tank, you just need a trio (one male, two female). Sticklebacks are cool but they can reach 3 inch long and are aggressive fishes so bad idea. Paradise fish are good idea but they look better in 10gal than 5gal tank. Swordtails are no-no as they can reach up to 5 inch long depends on its strains and are actively swimmers.

So no bitterling, no barbs, no swordtails, no danios, no paradise fish, no sticklebacks and def. No GOLDFISH!!

Get a trio of medaka killifish with a female dwarf sunset platy (all female platies in LFS are already pregnant anyways) with olive nerite snail/ghost shrimp. Or get a trio of White Cloud Mountain minnows with a female dwarf sunset platy or a pair of medaka killifish as long as you change the 25% of water once a week or so.

 

[Butch]

Just get a 10gal and a air pump for the fry to growing. Medaka are very easy to breed, just throw java moss or spawning mops then put moss or mops in 10gal tank. Feed the newly hatched brine shrimp or "green water" to the medaka fry and that's it. You might need to building the population of Japanese medaka killifish as they are hard to find these days and become disappearing from aquarium trades as the new rarer and colorful fishes appear in the aquarium trade more like galaxy rasobora and endlers guppies.

 

[Colin_T]

the tank holds as much water as it holds. If there is a filter in the back and that has water in, then that water is part of the tank volume.
From the dimensions you gave I would say the tank has about 50litres of water, which is fine for a groups of 8-10 whiteclouds, 4-6 bitterlings, a pr of sticklebacks, 4-6 female platies, or 8-10 zebra or leopard danios. This does not mean you can have all of these fishes, either get the white clouds or the bitterlings, or the... etc.

To work out the volume of water in the tank
measure Length x Width x Height in cm
divide by 1000
equals volume in litres

When measuring the height, measure from the top of the gravel to the top of the water level. If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove them before measuring the height.

 

[Butch]

Colin....don't suggesting about put more fishes in 7gal tank just like in other postes. 8 WCMM in 7 gal? That's really stupid and too many fishes in small tank. 4 bitterlings in 7gals? Looks like very cramped in it for four 4inch long minnows. Im not try to be mean but I think its wrong to overstocking in small tanks.

 

[Colin_T]

Butch, we don't even know how big the tank is. If it has a filter built into the back of the tank then it is going to hold more than 7gallons of water. The actual tank dimensions hold over 50 litres (12gallons).

As for 8 White Clouds being too much in a 7g tank, they are tiny fish (only get to an inch long) with small mouths that don't eat much. On top of that if you have 2 or 3 white clouds in the tank they will hide all the time because they will feel insecure. The tank is going to look pretty boring with a couple of tiny little fish hiding in the top back corner.

I used to keep 8 Epiplaty dageti (red chinned panchax, Killifish) in an 18x10x12inch tank. They had a sponge filter and a heater and lived there for 2 yrs. During that time I fished out several hundred young and never lost any of the adults.
I had a 24x10x12inch tank with 6 splashing tetras that were fine for several yrs and another tank the same size with 10 swordtail characins in. My tanks got a 1/3 water change each week and the fish were fed several times a day on high protein foods for breeding purposes.

re: Looks like very cramped in it for four 4inch long minnows --- not sure what you are referring to here. Bitterlings don't hit 4 inches and neither do white clouds.

 

[Megansdad]

Hi again, I've had a couple of hours sleep so I can concentrate on the topic in hand again.

I've used the Aquarium calculator to work out the following:

1) The tank is supposed to be a 55litre tank with external dimensions of: 420 x 400 x 430mm, but the important bit is the internal volume, right?

2) If I take out the back pump partition and filter, media, pump etc the internal dimensions are: 400 x 350 x 305mm = 43litres, 9.5imperial gallons or 11 US gallons.
(where 305mm is the max water level). This means that with the partition in situ the stuff that sits behind the partition where he fish can't swim is about 6cm deep.

3) So an empty tank with back filter partition in place leaves the swim volume as: 400 x 290 x 305mm = 35litres, 8imperial gallons, 9 US gallons

Question 1: Which is the important bit when consider the amount of fish I should stock? The total volume of water including the volume section where the fish can't swim or just the volume space where the fish can swim. I would have assumed this to be the latter.

4) So with the partition in place and the water level exactly on the MAX line, the actual current volume of the water excluding any gravel at the bottom is interior of the tank is 400 x 290 x 305mm = 35litres

Question 2: Should I maintain the water level as close to the MAX line as possible?

5) So if I put in the gravel, the swim water volume will be = 400 x 290 x 285 = 33litres

Does this clear things up? If so, how many centimetres of fish should I stock and how long should the longest be? I get the impression that none of the fish should be longer than 6cm excluding their tails when fully grown, is this right?

 

[Colin_T]

The total volume of water is more important because the water in the filter is going to end up in the tank and vice versa. It's all the same water being circulated around the tank.
The fish need swimming space too but they swim lengthwise so 6cm off the width isn't going to affect the small fish very much.

If you have a maximum water level you should not go above that. They are usually there to stop water splashing onto the hood or light unit.

The biggest fish you want to put in the tank is about 5-6cm but it also depends on the type of fish. You could have a gudgeon in the tank that gets to 5 inches but because they don't do anything (just sit under a rock) they don't need a lot of swimming space. Try to keep the fish under 5-6cm if possible.

The cm per x litres rule is outdated and should not be used to calculate the number of fish in a tank. Small fish like neon tetras and white cloud mountain minnows only weigh a few grams and produce very little waste.
eg: If you have 6 neons at 2cm ea you would have the equivalent of 12cm of fish in the tank. Yet you could not keep a 12cm oscar or angelfish in the tank.

There was an article done on this subject recently and it was quite good but took a while to read. But basically small narrow fish don't use as much space or food and has less effect on the filters compared to fish that are taller or thicker bodied.

 

[Megansdad]

Thanks Colin,

So my list of fish that I want are dwarf Platy and Killis.

Since it's a new tank going through it's fishless cycle, once it's ready should I just put one Platy in or two?

Which one is more hardy?

You also might know what this bug/snail type thing is in the bottom of my tank at the moment.

It looks like it was attached to one of the plants I put in or it just hatched !!!

 

[Colin_T]

The lil bug things is a pond snail and would have come in on some plants. They aren't a real problem but will breed readily in the tank and when in large numbers they eat your plants. If there are only a couple of them they will wander around picking up bits of food and grazing on the algae. If you don't want them just take them out and squish em.

Platies are platies, there aren't dwarf varieties or large varieties. They are all the same fish. Some shops just buy in adults and other shops get younger fish that are a bit smaller. As to the type of platy for your tank, get whichever ones you like. There are heaps of colour varieties so you just have to pick a couple. I would get 2 females. They will be pregnant when you get them and probably have babies within a month of going into the tank.

A couple of weeks after the platies have gone into the tank get a pr of killifish. The killifish will probably try to eat any baby platies that appear in the tank. You can buy breeding nets to put the young fish in. The breeding nets hang inside the main tank.
Now the big question is what sort of Killifish do you want?
Aphyosemium, Epiplaty, Nothobranchius, the list goes on. Have a look at some Killifish websites and see what takes your fancy. The Aphyosemium and Epiplaty killis are the easiest types to keep.