Newbie who really doesn't want to kill her future fish.

[Newtofish!]

Afternoon all,

Thank you in advance for welcoming me to fishforums.net.

I have just purchased a 200l corner tank (after watching too many episodes of Tanked) and now need to organise making my own little ecosystem.

I've done what seems like endless research over the last couple of weeks and seem to be getting more confused than more informed.

I have never kept fish before so would like some easyish to care for ones to ease myself in. I've found some fish that one place says are easy to look after only to find another website that says they have very specific needs and are not good for beginners. I would also like some live plants, from what I can tell they do wonders for the health of the aquarium but again I have got very confused about PH requirements etc.

I have super hard water in my area as well and some sites have said that I should get fish that are suited to hard water environments whilst others say that they're mostly all bread in hardish water so it doesn't matter.

From what I've researched I think a passable setup would be some Kuhli Loach, Raspbora and some gourami with some drift wood, java ferns and java moss with a sandy substrate - this is based on ease of care and ability to live together, not based on my water.

Basically all I would like is a mixture of fish that fill the water column, some plants that the fish, my water and I will like and a nice, healthy happy tank.

Any suggestions on fish, plants, substrate, filters, lights, heaters and water treatment will be very very very very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Leigh

 

[Essjay]

It is better to keep fish which originated in water with similar hardness to your tap water. Yes you can alter your tap water by adding minerals to soft water to make it harder or mixing hard water with pure water to make it softer, but this is a lifetime commitment and it is much easier if you can use unaltered tap water.

How hard is super hard? A number would help as various sources have different ideas about what exactly hard water is. Look on your water company's website for hardness - they should give a verbal description (which can be very misleading) and several numbers in various units of measurement. Post the numbers and the unit/s of measurement, please, so we can tailor advice for your hardness.

Of the species you mention, kuhlis, raboras and gouramis are all soft water fish which won't do well if your water really is 'super hard'. When soft water fish are kept in hard water they get calcium deposits in the organs which kill them well before their expected lifespan. You need to look at livebearers (endlers, guppies, platies, swordtails and mollies) and Rift Lake cichlids and rainbowfish. Once we know just how hard your tap water is, there may be other suitable species.


Plants also have hardness requirements, but I'll leave that to the plants experts.

 

[Newtofish!]

Hi Essjay,

Thanks for your reply. I've found a number of 310.10ppm for my water which is pretty hard so fish and plants for this water would be great.

Many thanks

 

[Essjay]

That is indeed super hard!

Fish profiles give hardness ranges in ppm or dH - your 310 ppm converts to 17.3 dH. Just about the best website for fish research is https://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/
Can you give us the dimensions of your tank, please - corner tanks do vary in shape for a given volume with some being quite tall. Width across the front, front to the back corner, height. Some fish need more swimming length than others, which is why I ask.

 

[Newtofish!]

The tank is 50cm high, 67cm deep and 97cm wide

 

[Colin_T]

Hi Essjay,

Thanks for your reply. I've found a number of 310.10ppm for my water which is pretty hard so fish and plants for this water would be great.

The tank is 50cm high, 67cm deep and 97cm wide

Rainbowfish, livebearers (guppies, platies, mollies, swordtails), or African Rift Lake cichlids will do well in your water.

Most plants will be fine in that water, it's not extreme. If the GH was over 450ppm, then it would be an issue.

-----------------
Are those tank dimensions correct?
It works out a bit over 300 litres.

 

[Colin_T]

AQUARIUM PLANTS 1.01

LIGHTING TIMES
Most aquarium plants like a bit of light and if you only have the light on for a couple of hours a day, they struggle. If the light doesn't have a high enough wattage they also struggle. Try having the tank lights on for 10-12 hours a day.

If you get lots of green algae then reduce the light by an hour a day and monitor the algae over the next 2 weeks.
If you don't get any green algae on the glass then increase the lighting period by an hour and monitor it.
If you get a small amount of algae then the lighting time is about right.

Some plants will close their leaves up when they have had sufficient light. Ambulia, Hygrophilas and a few others close their top set of leaves first, then the next set and so on down the stem. When you see this happening, wait an hour after the leaves have closed up against the stem and then turn lights off.


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TURNING LIGHTS ON AND OFF
Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.

In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

Try to have the lights on at the same time each day. Use a timer if possible.


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LIST OF PLANTS TO TRY
Some good plants to try include Ambulia, Hygrophila polysperma, H. ruba/ rubra, Elodia (during summer, but don't buy it in winter because it falls apart), Hydrilla, common Amazon sword plant, narrow or twisted/ spiral Vallis, Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta).
The Water Sprite normally floats on the surface but can also be planted in the substrate. The other plants should be planted in the gravel.

Ambulia, H. polysperma, Elodia/ Hydrilla and Vallis are tall plants that do well along the back. Rotala macranda is a medium/ tallish red plant that usually does well.

H. ruba/ rubra is a medium height plant that looks good on the sides of the tank.

Cryptocorynes are small/ medium plants that are taller than pygmy chain swords but shorter than H. rubra. They also come in a range of colours, mostly different shades of green, brown or purplish red. Crypts are not the easiest plant to grow but can do well if they are healthy to begin with and are not disturbed after planting in the tank.

Most Amazon sword plants can get pretty big and are usually kept in the middle of the tank as a show piece. There is an Ozelot sword plant that has brown spots on green leaves, and a red ruffle sword plant (name may vary depending on where you live) with deep red leaves.

There is a pygmy chain sword plant that is small and does well in the front of the tank.


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TRUE AQUATIC VS MARSH/ TERRESTRIAL PLANTS
Lots of plants are sold as aquarium plants and most are marsh plants that do really well when their roots are in water and the rest of the plant is above water. Some marsh plants will do well underwater too.

Hair grass is not a true aquatic plant, neither is Anubias.

Some common marsh plants include Amazon sword plants, Cryptocorynes, Hygrophila sp, Rotala sp, Ludwigia sp, Bacopa sp. These plant do reasonably well underwater.

True aquatic plants include Ambulia, Cabomba, Hornwort, Elodia, Hydrilla and Vallis.

The main difference between marsh plants and true aquatic plants is the stem. True aquatics have a soft flexible stem with air bubbles in it. These bubbles help the plant float and remain buoyant in the water column.
Marsh plants have a rigid stem and these plants can remain standing upright when removed from water. Whereas true aquatic plants will fall over/ collapse when removed from water.


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IRON BASED PLANT FERTILISER
If you add an iron based aquarium plant fertiliser, it will help most aquarium plants do well. The liquid iron based aquarium plant fertilisers tend to be better than the tablet forms, although you can push the tablets under the roots of plants and that works well.

You use an iron (Fe) test kit to monitor iron levels and keep them at 1mg/l (1ppm).

I used Sera Florena liquid plant fertiliser but there are other brands too.


--------------------
CARBON DIOXIDE (CO2)
There is no point adding carbon dioxide (CO2) until you have the lights and nutrients worked out. Even then you don't need CO2 unless the tank is full of plants and only has a few small fish in.

There is plenty of CO2 in the average aquarium and it is produced by the fish and filter bacteria all day, every day. The plants also release CO2 at night when it is dark. And more CO2 gets into the tank from the atmosphere.

Don't use liquid CO2 supplements because they are made from toxic substances that harm fish, shrimp and snails.

 

[Essjay]

Are those tank dimensions correct?
It works out a bit over 300 litres.

It's a corner tank so it has bits missing from each side compared to a rectangular tank

@Newtofish! I would use the side to side measurement half way down the tank from front to back, if you see what I mean, as the swimming length for fish (the red line in the drawing, it is supposed to be straight ) as swimming length is important


Compare that length to the minimum tank size given in the profiles on Seriously Fish.

 

[Newtofish!]

Thanks for all the help. I'm picking the tank up this evening so will be able to get the above mentioned measurement then. Having had a look at seriouslyfish.com it looks like Rift Lake species would do well with my hardness. I like the look of dwarf synodontis petricola but Cichlids seem a little daunting and possibly not best suited to a planted tank.

 

[Essjay]

Look at rainbow fish as well, most of those need hard water, though you would need to check on the size of the fish as some will grow too big for the tank.




Is this a brand new tank or second hand? If it's brand new, you'll need to cycle it before getting fish, either a fishless cycle with ammonia or a plant cycle. https://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycle-your-tank-a-complete-guide-for-beginners.475055/
If it's second hand it will depend on how long since the previous owner stopped using it.

 

[Newtofish!]

It's a 2nd hand one and I am not planning on buying any fish for at least 2 months. The new tank stand has to be built, the water properly cycled and my knowledge increased before I get any fish.

 

[Newtofish!]

So done some more reading around and think maybe some dwarf synodontis petricola with some Lake Tebera rainbowfish, vallisneria, anubias nana and java moss could work as a set-up. Swordtails look like they could work in the water I have as well. Any thoughts? I have a very reputable LFS that's been going for over 60 years near me so I will be paying them a visit tomorrow hopefully. They have the same water as me so hopefully can also provide some insight.

​

 

[Colin_T]

Thanks for all the help. I'm picking the tank up this evening so will be able to get the above mentioned measurement then. Having had a look at seriouslyfish.com it looks like Rift Lake species would do well with my hardness. I like the look of dwarf synodontis petricola but Cichlids seem a little daunting and possibly not best suited to a planted tank.

There are some small cichlids from Lake Tanganyika that don't destroy plant tanks. Cyprichromis leptosoma and Paracyprichromis nigripinnis are open water cichlids that live in groups and don't dig. They would live with Synodontis petricola.

There are shell dweller cichlids that live in shells and only grow to an inch long. They dig a little bit but not much and won't affect most plants.

Julidochromis cichlids will dig a bit but if you have rocky caves, they will spend most of their time there and not bother plants located elsewhere in the tank.

The following link has all the know Australian and New guinea rainbowfishes and describes their size, conditions they need, etc. It might give you some ideas.

Melanotaeniidae and Pseudomugilidae

A website dedicated to Rainbowfishes of Australia and New Guinea

rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au

 

[Essjay]

I have a very reputable LFS that's been going for over 60 years near me

Just a note of caution - take everything they say with a large handful of salt until you've researched it for yourself. So many fish shop workers sound very convincing while talking rubbish. Once your research shows they know what they are talking about, then you can listen to them.
For example, many shops say that cycling is rubbish, just add this miracle product and get a tankful of fish at the same time. Bottled bacteria products don't work like that.

 

[Newtofish!]

Just a note of caution - take everything they say with a large handful of salt until you've researched it for yourself. So many fish shop workers sound very convincing while talking rubbish. Once your research shows they know what they are talking about, then you can listen to them.
For example, many shops say that cycling is rubbish, just add this miracle product and get a tankful of fish at the same time. Bottled bacteria products don't work like that.

Don't worry - I will take notes then read up about it when I get home. I will not be walking out of the shop with anything tomorrow, not even some sand/gravel.