Newbie Searching For Guidance

[bonovox]

Hi Everyone,
 
I'm new to the forums and new to the hobby. I've recently started a new tank, 6 days now, and appear to be having problems. I have started a fish-in cycle (I wasn't even aware of the fishless cycle until I stumbled upon the website the other day).
 
I took all precautionary measures prior to getting the fish, washed out aquarium, washed all plants (sythentic) and other decor before filling the tank with water. Let the tank run for 48 hours before getting fish. Took a water sample to the local pet store, it was tested and I was told it was A-okay to proceed with the fish-in cycle. The tank is about 54 gallons so we were told we could do more than the 3-4 fish startup, we purchased 3 danio zebras and 3 black skirt tetras. Put the fish in water and the next morning 2 of the tetras had died, I felt horrible and didn't understand how this happened. Took the fish back and another water sample and was told that my PH levels were very high and that I shouldn't have anymore fish until this problem was solved. The 3 zebras appear to be totally fine and the last tetra has been hiding every since that night.
 
I purchased a test strip set to monitor the water and it appears that my PH, KH and GH levels are high. I bought some PH balance and it worked one day but has reverted back to it's old level now. Nitrite and Nitrate levels are very low and have not changed since I started testing the water myself.  I've done one water change, about 20%, and am about to do another one. I've used a water conditioner from the beginning and have since started using a bacteria supplement with water changes. Water has been cloudy since day 1, not too bad but noticeable.
 
I'm kind of at a loss for what to do next. I'm in desperate need of help so I can get this done properly.
 
Any help is much appreciated.

 

[the_lock_man]

OK, first thing to do is ditch the paper strips, and invest £20 or so in a API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Miles more accurate than the strips.
 
Next thing is to understand that a high pH isn't a problem that needs solving. It's more of a circumstance that needs accommodating. Unless it's ridiculously high, like 9 or something. The pH-adjusting chemicals are dangerous, because, as you've found, water tends to want to do its own thing. This leads to your pH level yo-yoing, and that is bad for fish. Personally, I'd chuck the stuff away.
 
6 fish in 54 gallons, I wouldn't have thought you'd built up lethal levels of ammonia with 6 fish overnight, so it could be an acclimation problem - did you introduce your tank water gradually into the bag, or did you just get the temperatures matched?
 
On an ongoing basis, you need to be testing your water for ammonia and nitrite every day. If you see any level at all above 0ppm, you need to change at least 50%, and if your level is over 0.5ppm, then you need to be changing at least 80%. Continue doing that for weeks until you can go a whole week without seeing any readings at all for ammonia and nitrite. Then you can start to slowly increase your stocking.

 

[bonovox]

I knew I should have purchased the master test kit from the beginning! I will get on that tonight.
 
I haven't used the PH balance chemical since the weekend and don't plan on using it again.
 
I only matched the bag tempurature to the tank. There's another way of introducing the fish to the tank?
 
I will test the tank water tonight for ammonia and do a water change.
 
Thanks for the help and I apologize about the double posting. I just thought I might have posted my query in the wrong discussion board.

 

[tomtomtom1230]

Just to put it in perspective for you, I'm on Severn Trent Water here in sunny Telford and we've an average pH of about 8.2
 
This is pretty high but not a catastrophe. I try and keep the pH steady. Naturally it fluctuates and is lower towards the end of the week (is usually about 7.6 but has been as low as 7.0) and higher at the start, just after I've done my water change. Approximately 7.8 - 8.0

 

[bonovox]

Thanks tomtomtom! (my name also! )

I'm living in Jacksonville, Florida right now and we have hard water coming in to the house. I think this may be the reason for the high PH. I will use the API master kit tonight to get a better reading but it was around 8 with the test strip.

 

[RCA]

I only matched the bag tempurature to the tank. There's another way of introducing the fish to the tank?

Hi, there maybe some information on here about acclimatising your fish, but I am new here so do not know my way around fully (yet).  Have a search and see what you can find, or google it.
 
Basically I understand there are two parts to acclimatising your fish:
1. The water needs to reach the same temperature as that in the aquarium, I believe about 10-15 mins is about right.
2. Secondly, you then need to ensure the fish are adapted slowly to the changes in parameters by adding water from your aquarium into the bag.  This is done fairly slowy about every 10 mins.  I tend to use a large syringe to do this, but there are other ways.  Look Up "the drip method" whereby you have an airline or similar slowly dripping water into the bag.
 
The more sensitve the species, the slower the process.  Also, with you getting the API test kit (which I have), I tend to take a sample of the water the new fish arrive in, test this and note the readings vs the same in the aquarium.  This is recorded in my "fish diary" so that I can monitor the fish in their new surroundings vs where they have come from i.e. you have a base marker.
 
I read somewhere however that if a fish arrives in highly toxic water (which I once had), it can be better to acclimatise it quickly or transfer it sooner as it is better than sitting in highly toxic water- not 100% sure on this - anyone with more experience able to comment?
 
Also, when I am ready to transfer the fish from the bag I always net or scoop (holds fish in small amount of water) them into the aquarium so as not to introduce the water from another source i.e. the fish store.
 
I was given a guide that the fish should not be in the bag longer than about 30mins, but I think this can vary, anyone with more knowledge?
 
Happy fishing

 

[bonovox]

Great info! Thanks RCA!

 

[RCA]

Your welcome... oh and I agree with "the_lock_man", in that although my pH is not always ideal I do not mess with it as the chemicals do not stabalise the pH but it tends to fluctuate which is more harmful.  Some LFS sell RO water if your source water is not good, but I have never entered into this, if I were to I would (as with everything), research, research, research the pro's and cons before switiching.  I have also read that bogwood can change the pH, but I am not that well read up on this to comment as to how much and whether it is indeed effective.
 
The main thing being a newbie to the hobby is to start slowly, and build up as your parameters settle, this way you get the joy and pleasure of a well balanced underwater world.  You seem to have arrived in a great forum where I am sure you will get lots of help and assistance.
 
Good luck, relax and enjoy ...

 

[bonovox]

Well, just completed the water test with the API Master Test and I'm a little baffled.

Results are as follows:
 
PH - 8.0
Ammonia - Between 0 and 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 0 ppm

Could this be possible? Tank has been running one week now and fish have been in since last Thursday.

Good news is my Black Skirt Tetra is swimming around tonight. That makes me happy. Bad news is already broke a test tube.
 
I have not completed another water change.

 

[RCA]

On an ongoing basis, you need to be testing your water for ammonia and nitrite every day. If you see any level at all above 0ppm, you need to change at least 50%, and if your level is over 0.5ppm, then you need to be changing at least 80%. Continue doing that for weeks until you can go a whole week without seeing any readings at all for ammonia and nitrite. Then you can start to slowly increase your stocking.

 
Hi, anything is possible especially when an aquarium is cycling.  As per "the_lock_man" as above, test daily, and continue for a few weeks to be sure the aquarium is stable.  Slow and steady wins the race as they say.  I waited 3 months for some Rasboras Espei's and was not tempted to get anything else while waiting for them to arrive, it is part of the hobby and the joy of having a balanced underwater world in the long run.
 
Check the expiry date on your test kit and make sure it is well in date.  You can also take a sample to the store as a back up reading, I have the API test kit but occasionally I get the store to check my water as well as they use other kits with a wider range of tests e.g. phosphate if I am getting some green water.  Do not worry about the other tests at the moment, but just get the basics double checked with the store occassionally until you are familiar with the test kit.
 
Hmm, broken test tubes, I thought I was doing really well with 3 survivors then broke two in one go as they slipped off the counter!  I am looking to getting some plastic ones on-line, plus possibly a test tube rack to assist with drying them.  Glass is clearer but they are very fragile to work with!
 
Glad the tetra is looking brighter...

 

[Gilli]

Hi
 
you may find this thread on this forum handy to answer any questions
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
 
Really important to test your water every single day and to be doing at least 50% water changes (or more if your readings are high) every single day you have any readings over 0 as the water is toxic to the fish - they are literally swimming around in poison and thats why they die.
 
 

 

[RCA]

Thanks Gilli, just came across that part of the forum and returned to add the link

Will send you a message via your profile link, as I have a question off topic for you.

 

[the_lock_man]

Well, just completed the water test with the API Master Test and I'm a little baffled.

Results are as follows:
 
PH - 8.0
Ammonia - Between 0 and 0.25 ppm
Nitrite - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 0 ppm

Could this be possible? Tank has been running one week now and fish have been in since last Thursday.

Good news is my Black Skirt Tetra is swimming around tonight. That makes me happy. Bad news is already broke a test tube.

 
I have not completed another water change.

 
 
A couple of things to note with the API kit.
 
1) The ammonia test can be difficult to read. THere have been experienced fishkeepers on here panicking because they've got an unexpected 0.25ppm ammonia. The test needs to be read under natural light if possible, under artificial light, the yellow of 0ppm takes on a distinctly green tinge - so it looks like the colour oif the 0.25ppm.
 
2) The nitrate test often gives false zeros. You have to shake the bejayzees out of bottle two, because there's a powder reagent in there which, especially when the kit's been lying around unused for a while, can precipitate out of solution - you have to get that powder dissolved into the liquid again. Shake the bottle for 2 mins, bang it on the table, tie it to a pneumatic drill, do whatever you need to get it properly shaken.
 
It'd be good to retest those two, and see what you get. If you still get a 0 for nitrate, you've got no bacteria at all. If you get a reading for nitrate, and still 0 for ammonia, you're a very lucky blighter.
 
You've got 4 fish in a relatively large tank - levels aren't going to build up quickly. However, at a pH of 8.0, the ammonia you do get will be in the poisonous form, so you do need to keep testing daily.

 

[bonovox]

Thanks for all the help! I will take all advice and put it to use with my tank.
 
I'll keep you updated!

 

[tomtomtom1230]

 However, at a pH of 8.0, the ammonia you do get will be in the poisonous form, so you do need to keep testing daily.

 
Could you elaborate on the relationship between ammonia toxicity and pH a little? I'm intrigued (genuinely, don't read it as Internet-sarcasm!). 

 It's just that I've not heard about this being linked before now (learn something every day, right?).