Newbie Questions

[Tomathee]

Hello aquarists!

I have been doing my homework the last few weeks as I know as good as nothing about keeping fish, bar the typical goldfish bowl of childhood which I now discover was far from perfect for the fish involved. I've been reading around here and other areas, getting a book and looking round local shops. Ideas are starting to come together and I thought I would run some things by to check I'm on the right course;

The tank/setup I'm looking at is this one at seapets for just under £275 (hope it's ok to link there). Fluval Roma 125. I chose it as it comes with a lot of extras, is a good price (the cabinet and tank alone is the same price in the shops), doesn't have the built in filters like some of the others I looked at (some of the Juwel setups, which some say the equipment is not as good and harder to replace), and it fits in with the other furniture. The local shops didn't really have anything to come close, there's pets at home (have this stand and tank but same price as the link above without any extras), all the tanks I saw at maidenhead aquatics that were around this size were quite a way out of my budget. There was another shop (Bruno?, part of a local garden centre) that had the tank but the cabinet was a different style and I wasn't sure how the package deal they had measured up, didn't seem as good at a glance.

Question 1 - Obvious one - is it a good choice, in terms of the make/model etc and the package?
Question 2 - I read a lot about the weight of these things, and spreading it out over the floor etc, will that stand be OK or would it need extra wood, thinking along the front etc.
Question 3 - General opinion seems to be that an 'API Liquid Freshwater Master Test Kit' is the best method, is that purely based on how many tests you get for your money?
Question 4 - Is there anything else I will need in addition to the list of extras that come with the setup?
Fluval GLO lighting unit,
One Power-Glo Fluorescent Aquarium Tube 20W 60.96cm (24in) T8
One Aqua-Glo Fluorescent Aquarium Tube 20W 60.96 cm (24in) T8
Filter Model Fluval U3 Internal Filter with Filter Media inside, see media product for replacement schedule:
1 x Fluval U3 Foam Pad
1 x Fluval U3 Poly Carbon Pad
Heater, Fluval Mirrored M Series Heater 150watt,
An LCD thermometer
Nutrafin Aqua Plus water conditioner 100ml
Nutrafin Cycle 100ml
Nutrafin Tropical Flake food 26gm
Fluval Aquarium Care Guide.
80cm Aquarium Background - Japanese Plant and Driftwood
20kg Dorset Natural Gravel
5in Aquarium Fish Net
Easy Clean Gravel Cleaner Medium Size

Question 5 - What is the difference between starting up the cycling with throwing in some fish food, using the 'bacteria in a bottle' (looks like some of that is included) and trying to get hold of some ammonia(?) to pour in? If as some people say the bottle of bacteria is no good the fish food route would be easy but I guess it's not as clear cut as that.

That's it for now, I haven't really thought of what specific fish I want yet so some answers may depend on that. I have written some down that I will have to shortlist and think about properly but I have plenty of time as I imagine I won't get to that stage before holidays and other things interrupt. Just thought I would get the ball rolling so I can make a start getting the bits together. I'm sure these won't be the last questions I have.

Thanks for reading and any advice you can offer.
Tom

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi Tom, to the forum

I'll try and answer your questions

Question 1 - Obvious one - is it a good choice, in terms of the make/model etc and the package? Yes, Fluval is a well respected brand and you should have no problems with the tank.

Question 2 - I read a lot about the weight of these things, and spreading it out over the floor etc, will that stand be OK or would it need extra wood, thinking along the front etc.
No, you should be fine, unless your house has some serious issues!


Question 3 - General opinion seems to be that an 'API Liquid Freshwater Master Test Kit' is the best method, is that purely based on how many tests you get for your money?

It's partly that, but also accuracy. The paper test strips are much cheaper, but highly inaccurate; there's a brand called Salifert, which are more accurate, but also a lot more expensive. The API ones a good mid-range choice, and accurate enough for our home hobbyist purposes.



Question 4 - Is there anything else I will need in addition to the list of extras that come with the setup?

The equipment sounds fine. The filter should be alright for a lightish stocking; you might need to look at upgrading in the future, but I wouldn't worry about that yet. If you want to keep any catfish, like corydoras, or loaches (basically anything with 'whiskers), you might want to look at getting sand rather than gravel, as they're much happier with sand to dig in.


Question 5 - What is the difference between starting up the cycling with throwing in some fish food, using the 'bacteria in a bottle' (looks like some of that is included) and trying to get hold of some ammonia(?) to pour in? If as some people say the bottle of bacteria is no good the fish food route would be easy but I guess it's not as clear cut as that.

The problem with the fish food method is that you have no real way of monitoring what's happening. Just for instance, if you're reading zero on your ammonia test, is that because you have the right bacteria, or because the fish food isn't producing any? You also can't tell how much ammonia you're getting; if you only get a very small amount, your filter bacteria might not be able to cope with any fish you add. A fishless cycle with ammonia is honestly the best way to go

 

[Tomathee]

Thanks very much, always nice to have a helpful reply on a new forum.

Glad to hear that tank is OK, I almost thought it might be too good to be true when I saw the price of some of the tanks that are available. I had a quick look round ebay and there are some great bargains (of note a 110 litre setup with seemingly everything starting at £20), doubt I will go that route though I usually convince myself there will be problems with those type of sites, and also I have a small car so collection could be difficult with them. No serious issues with the building as far as I know, it is a second story flat and I don't have any concerns, it will be against a proper wall and 99% sure it will be over more than one joist etc. Main problem will be lugging it up the stairs. Can at least order a test kit straight away then so I've made a start.

I have thought of some other questions, I've looked through the beginners stickies so apologies if any of the answers are there and I missed them, more than happy to go back and re-read.
If I went with sand will that cause any problems for the filter etc? I had been considering it as I would most likely want to get catfish(es) at some stage even if not straight away.
I can read up on types of sand (silver, play etc that I've seen mentioned) but is there a better colour? Would too light a colour make the tank too bright, is black good for showing up the colours of the fish more etc?
If I stuck with gravel for now could I swap to sand a few weeks/months in or would it create too many problems to be worthwhile?
How would I know when the filter needed upgrading? I had only heard of various 'litres per inch of fish' or 'sq cm surface area per inch of fish' and suchlike, nothing about the filter impacting on this.

Thanks again

 

[fluttermoth]

No, sand won't impact your filter as long as it's well washed before you add it to the tank. Sand always comes 'contaminated' with lighter, dusty particles which stay in suspension if they're not removed, and if those get into your filter, they can damage the impeller.

Light sand does make the tank brighter, but as long as the sand isn't actually white, the fish seem ok with it (all mine are anyway, and I have Argos playsand in most of my tanks). Black sand looks great, but can be very expensive.

If you want to go with sand, I'd start with that. It's bit of upheaval changing; you basically have to empty the whole tank of fish, plants, everything, so it's easier to just start with the sand than go through that a few months down the line.

Stocking is a tricky subject to pin down. The guidelines, like inch per gallon or whatever, assume a standard sort of filtration. If you cycle your filter properly, and at some point you start to show traces of ammonia or nitrite, it tells you that your filtration is becoming inadequate for your stocking. If your filtration is very good, or you have very large filters, you can have a larger number of fish, but you have to do more water changes to compensate, as filters don't remove nitrate and with a larger bioload (more fish, in other words) nitrate builds up far more quickly.

Hope that helps somewhat!

 

[Tomathee]

Thanks for answering, again. Will add sand to the things I need to look into. Have ordered the test kit recommended. I guess for now I will carry on reading up until I am comfortable with going ahead and buying the setup and getting it going without making panic posts about things that aren't actual problems. I will most likely think of some more questions along the way so I'll dig up the thread and add to it, hopefully along with some photos of my progress.

 

[fluttermoth]

Best of luck; you'll find there's always someone about to help with any more queries you might have

 

[OldMan47]

Basic needs are a tank, stand, heater, filter, lighting and substrate.
The kit you are buying has all of that. There will be plenty of time to get more food while your tank cycles since that tiny sample will not last very long once you have fish. The net is a nice add on but you could really run without it.
I don't see a water change bucket or a gravel vac in that list so get a gravel vac at the fish shop and go to your nearest discount home center and get a clean bucket big enough to do a 10% water change with no more than 2 trips to the sink to get fresh water. You already have dechlorinator, the Aquaplus conditioner but you may find that you use quite a bit at each water change since it is not very concentrated. Just be ready to get more dechlorinator as needed, I use Prime because it ends up being cheaper to use, although a bottle costs more to buy.

 

[Tomathee]

Hi thanks for the extra info. I had been thinking about a bucket, if a normal one is fine I can get that next time I pass the shop, also some kind of jug I guess to get water from the tank to the bucket, unless there's a better method I haven't considered? Also should I be thinking about a quarantine tank? I did have an idea about getting one of those plastic storage boxes and cleaning it out as and when it would be required for putting fish in, not sure what I would do with an empty tank when not in use. If that's not an option and a proper tank is a must, is there any rough guidelines on what size I should get, based on going with this 125l I will most likely go for? Could be something I take a punt on ebay with. Want to start thinking about what fish I want so I can check out compatibility etc but I guess I will have to get round the shops again to see what's actually available round here first. Another thing I guess I should think about is plants, assuming fish will be happier with them in from the beginning rather than a bare tank and adding later. Not after an underwater forest like some of the (very nice looking) efforts I've seen, but I do want some. Is there anything in particular I need to bear in mind when looking at plants, I am hoping it will not need much research.

Cheers again.

 

[OldMan47]

To get water from the tank to your water change bucket, use your gravel vac. It will typically give you the ability to remove sediment from your substrate and, in the process, will remove water from your tank. Nothing more will be needed in that direction. I also use my siphon to return new water to a tank this way. Yep, that is a simple board laid across the top of the tank.

Plants are not my main focus but I have some success with them. I try to always have some plants in any tank. It may be considered a prejudice but I find that fish with plants always seem to do better for me. If you want plants, find out what is the cheapest for you to buy. I know that sounds wrong but think about it this way. If you are buying cheap plants the grower thought they were especially easy for him to grow. If he found them easy, you probably will too. You did want easy care plants didn't you?

 

[Tomathee]

Yes definitely easy care to begin with, until I know whether that side of it interests me the lower maintenance the better. I will probably order soon as it will be a struggle to get a day off work in June to be here for delivery, after which I'm on holiday, and July is a long time to wait. So I am planning on ordering it and filling it with water to check for leaks, building the cupboard and washing the sand, and checking the electrical bits, then leaving it until I'm back from holiday to start the cycling etc. Is that a sensible plan and is there anything else I should do before it gets left for a few weeks until I start cycling it? I'm also now a bit weary about seapets small print, in that you have to check the tank before signing for it. If it's the usual delivery guy types then he won't be hanging around for that, and even if they did wait I wouldn't be able to check it for leaks in that time. Maybe have to ring and ask, as I'll have to try and arrange the day so I can get it off work.

 

[elmo666]

I personaly haven't had any problems with a new tank. If you're worried and you have a flat and level area outside you could fill it there, then drain it as you are not going to cycle it for a couple of wks.

 

[Tomathee]

Yea I have a balcony so the plan was to put it out there for a few hours with water in see what happens. Rather that than on the dining table. Went ahead and ordered the one from my previous post today, decided I want it sooner rather than later, even if it is going to sit empty for a few weeks. This weekend I'll be out looking for a couple of buckets, I assume it is best to keep the one used for old dirty water separate to the one for new water? Also maybe sand of some description, I haven't decided if I can stomach the price for most of the black sand I've seen about or if I'll go for regular silica(?) sand. Also another swoop past garden centres to start getting a list of what's available so I can start checking out compatibility etc. Finally, the water testing kit turned up today so I can do a test of regular tap water tomorrow, I read somewhere (probably on here) that leaving it for 2 hours in a glass or jug or whatever is a good idea to let the chlorine out, is there any other tips?

Thanks again for the advice

 

[OldMan47]

Tank water is only dirty to us, not the fish. It is their home. I use the same bucket for both but I have several so that I can be draining one tank on a siphon while I use other buckets to fill another tank. With 26 tanks running it just takes too long if you keep waiting on one bucket to fill or drain a tank.

 

[Tomathee]

Maybe I'll start with just one bucket then, keeping 26 tanks must take some time. Managed to get a bottle of ammonia today, had been thinking I would struggle reading some of the posts on here but it was fairly easy to find in homebase. Also popped in P@H to note down a list of potential fish, although if the garden centres have the same when I do a list from them I'll go there instead. To be fair they have some nice ornaments (ruins etc) which may find a place, haven't thought much into rock/wood and a layout very much, and they do have a good choice of plants. Water test will have to wait til tomorrow, will put the results up to see if that crosses anything of the list straight away.

 

[Salam]

Hello and welcome! You are going to have a lovely tank, looks great. I must say, I also had no problems finding ammonia, got it at my local Nisa store.

Anyway, I just wanted to suggest something: While you are cycling and waiting, why not look at some of the tanks here for inspiration? I did this when I first joined and it really helped me plan the layouts of my tanks. I started with a kids' tank and a 'no fishing' sign and now I am natural all the way. One of my tank has home-made coconut shells, another has slate caves, then I have rocks, bogwood, live plants...

Best starting point would be the monthly competitions, then the pictures section. Just have a look at those beauties and you know what I mean: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/300031-tank-of-the-month-winners-gallery/

I am sure you can get some inspiration