Newbie Questions

[pthechemist]

Hi guys and gals,

I'm new to the fish world and have a few questions about my fish.

First off, I have a 25 litre hexagonal tank which is at 25-26 degrees with filter system etc...
I used agar when setting up the tank and have a pH controlling block in there. The pH is currently (near as #41#### it) at 7.

I have:
a green barb, striped/zebra barb, ruby and a convict in the tank at the moment.

my questions are as follows:

1. all the fish are congregating at the top of the filter pump with their mouths to the surface (is this normal?)
2. I had a bristlenose (about 1cm in length) which died after about an hour. I went to the shop and asked if I'd done something wrong but after a lengthy chat they decided all was well with the set up but the fish must have been ill. They gave me a replacement which was very happily swimming around yesterday and sucking on all surfaces. This morning however, it was no more. Is it something to do with my setup or have I just been unlucky?


Many thanks,

Phil

ps I know that I'l need a larger tank in the future but for now this will have to do.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum PTheChemist.

You are absolutely correct, you will need a tank at least that size for most of your fish kept individually. I have no idea why you set up a tank with agar (isn't that a thickening agent for food?) or why you are trying so hard to hold the pH at 7.0.

The fish were probably not ill when you moved them into the tank. The actions of the fish are typical when you place fish into a new tank that has not been properly cycled. If you can, you should return the fish to the place that you got them. If you cannot, you can use some dechlorinator and replace almost all of the water with fresh water. That should allow you to find the time to get a decent testing kit so that you can measure ammonia and nitrites. The only kind of kit that I would advise uses liquid reagents and 5 ml sample test tubes. One of the ones we see used frequently is the API master freshwater test kit. It contains all of the tests that you will need and also contains a high range pH test capability. What we try to target during the "cycle" is a concentration of ammonia and nitrites that are each below 0.25 ppm at all times. By your fish's symptoms I would guess that one or both are above 1.0 ppm which is why the enormous water change.

Once you get the emergency water change taken care of, please read through the fish-in cycle thread that you can link to in my signature listing. It will outline the basics of doing a fish-in cycle, such as the one you are facing and fill in lots of details that would just take too much space here. If another member called Waterdrop comes by, be sure to heed his advice. He is good at getting people on track with the cycle and is a bit more technically correct than I am. I tend to just know what works and tell people to try it.

 

[pthechemist]

Hi Oldman,
Thanks for the advice. I have just got in with a testing kit for NH3 and for Nitrites but both say that the water is fine, there was a REALLY faint pink colour for nitrites so I'm gonna do a 20% water change but other than that...
The Convict and Ruby(?) are now swimming around and the 2 tetras are still up top but I read somewhere they do that until they settle.

Cheers again Phil

ps, the agar should have said ager! lol

pps. the local fish shop has some bacteria that you can add to the aquarium. is this a good idea?

 

[cowboy507]

Hi Oldman,
Thanks for the advice. I have just got in with a testing kit for NH3 and for Nitrites but both say that the water is fine, there was a REALLY faint pink colour for nitrites so I'm gonna do a 20% water

pps. the local fish shop has some bacteria that you can add to the aquarium. is this a good idea?

WHat test kits did you get? if they are the strips and not the liquid ones then they are basically useless. if you just started a cycle then you dont really have to worry about nitrites, its really the ammonia. as this is the first byproduct of cycling. read up on fish-in and fishless cycling, these will help a lot.

and the bacteria in a bottle usually are nothing, i tried and found that it did not help speed up the process. I believe that it actually added some ammonia if nothing else. (This would be bad if you are doing a fish in cycle.) but none the less feel free to try it, it might work, it might not. It usually pretty cheep.

 

[arobinson1984]

Agree with what has already been said.

1. The bacteria in a bottle products are mostly useless. They no doubt at one stage contained live beneficial bacteria, but bacteria need oxygen and a food source to survive, neither of which they are getting in a bottle on a shelf for weeks / months.

2. You need a good liquid based test kit, as oldman said a favourite by many is the API freshwater master kit which is accurate enough for what you need. The paper test strips are basically useless, they are hightly inaccurate.

3. Is your filter creating water surface disturbance? In a hexagonal tank the surface area is smaller than a regular rectangular tank so surface agitation is a must to allow the fish to breath. Ensure your filter outlet is either near the surface or pointing at the surface so that is creates a disturbance on the water surface, this allows gaseous exchange.

Without knowing your exact water readings with a reliable liquid test kit its hard to state for definate what the problem is, but I'd start as oldman said with a large water change of at least 50%, preferably more. Ensure your dechlor the fresh water and temperature match it the best you can.

Andy

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, we get quite a few of these cases usually each month where the tank is in an emergency Fish-In Cycling Situation. You are in good hands with OM47 and Andy here, helping you interpret the Fish-In guide that rabbut wrote and that you'll find in the Beginners Resource Center. The fish were brought in prior to the tank having a working biofilter.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[pthechemist]

Thanks guys, the tests that I am using are a seachem alert series ammonia test and a Aquaone nitrite testing kit (reagent A & B which you add separately).

Ammonia reading is yellow meaning <0.02 ppm and the nitrite reading was a VERY faint pink (<1ppm according to the test kit) but then I changed about 40% of the water and treated it etc...

All fish are now happily swimming around at various levels. Am going to check levels again later and do a 20% water change if needed.

Is there any point in putting live plants in yet as there will be no nitrates formed? or should I wait a coupe of weeks?

Also, I am looking at buying a 130 litre tank, will this be large enough for the long term?

Cheers,
Phil

 

[OldMan47]

There is definitely a point to adding plants now. If you have healthy and thriving plants in the tank, they will help you control your ammonia for the next few weeks. Plants generally will use ammonia if both ammonia and nitrates are present. Be careful with plantings though. If you have plants with dying leaves, they will make your situation worse than it already is. Plants are a two edged sword but if you can help them thrive they will definitely help your situation.
A 130 litre tank should be about big enough for the fish that you already have but would not give you much room to expand. If you are sure that you will stay with the hobby, it is generally better to go with as large a tank as you might ever want. That way you don't spend more money each time you want to move up again and you also don't need to cycle all of those intermediate sized tanks as well as the final big one.