Newbie Needing Help

[tomtomtom1230]

I hate the thought of an overstocked tank, too. I really like planted tanks and will also suggest those over non planted. Plants are also better for the tank's eco system.

 

[NewbieDerby]

I hate the thought of an overstocked tank, too. I really like planted tanks and will also suggest those over non planted. Plants are also better for the tank's eco system.

Me too, I'm actually trawling through the web trying to find a larger tank set up now. 25 L is so small, when you consider that much of that space will be plants etc. Any suggestions? Does anyone on here sell stuff like that?

 

[KISSfn]

Is your filter cycled?

 

[NewbieDerby]

Is your filter cycled?

It is in the process of doing so as we speak.

 

[BETTY BOO]

what are you using to cycle it? as you need a source of ammonia.also do you have a water testing kit?

 

[Wills]

you put whatever you like in there as long as it stays alive and you keep it fed and clean thats all that matters

I will be honest I disagree about keeping Apistos in a 25 liter tank, I also dont agree with above as it just leads to the "it's fine" or "it will do" response when people are keeping big fish in small tanks. In a tank this size that is just magnified in such a small tank. I think Apistos are way way way too risky to keep in a 25 liter tank the floor print will not be big enough to keep a trio as the females will fight and it wont take long before a dominant one rises and either kills or harasses the sub female as there is not enough room to get out of the way. They are hareem brooders in the wild and in most successful tanks, pairs do happen but not commonly IME. If you put a pair in a small tank there is no garunteed chance they will pair as the female will make a nest as she grows and the males dont keep as stronger territories as they like to patrol a larger area lets call that scenario 1 where the two genders fight for territory and then lets start start scenario two which is the most likely IMO they breed in the small tank and then one time they breed the male decides that he wants to breed again very shortly after the first spawn the female is not ready yet and so gets harassed and in such a small tank she has no where to go and in this situation it never ends well.

Sorry to go so hardline on this but I am very passionate about keeping cichlids and have learned a lot of hard lessons by doing exactly what is being recommended above. IE - keeping them too crammed in and hoping for the best. For long term success with cichlids you need to work out the risks of each individual and act accordingly.

With small tanks to get the most out of them it is important to be clever with them, finding a fish you like and finding an alternative that keeps most of the characteristics of its larger counter part. EG in small tanks you get things like Dwarf Gourami yet in tiny tanks like this you would be better off with Pygmy Gourami. Or an other good example is instead of Neon Tetras get Green Neon Tetras which are becoming increasingly available Green Neons stay under an inch regular Neons go over. Ember Tetras are an other good Tetra for this tank.

If your really interested in keeping cichlids I would recommend a bigger tank but the only ones I can think you might get away with are Laetacara particularly the Red Breasted Acara, Laetacara Dorsiger (there are a few variants of the name but we can stick with this one) they are about the same size as some Apistos perhaps a little more rotund but the best bit is that they take up a much smaller territory and are generally more peaceful towards one an other as they are a true pairing fish.

With the Guppies vs Endlers a small number of Guppies would work but I would stick with all male rather than mixing genders as then you will end up with just the number of fish you put in the tank and a breeding pair or trio would just multiply very quickly.... Same for Endlers.

Hope thats helped.
Wills

 

[Akasha72]

I'm reading this and feeling quite horrified by the suggestions. You've had fish recommended that need more experience than a newbie will have.

Wills has offered some good advice though.

I've had tropical fish for nearly a year now and I'm only just beginning to feel I have the experience to keep fish like cichlids - up until now they've been way out of my league and I still class myself as a newbie.

Kissfn asked how you were cycling your tank and you say it's in the process now. How are you cycling it? Are you using household ammonia and testing the water daily? Perhaps you've been sold some bottled bacteria and told you can add fish straight away - if you have it's bad advice.

I'd head over to the beginners section and have a good read then get a couple of male guppies seen as this is what you seem to like. They have a reletively short life span (about a year - 18 months) and they are a good fish for a beginner. Platies are another good beginner fish as they are hardy little fish.

 

[NewbieDerby]

I was told by the guy at the shop to use 'Stress-Zhyme'?

 

[NewbieDerby]

you put whatever you like in there as long as it stays alive and you keep it fed and clean thats all that matters

I will be honest I disagree about keeping Apistos in a 25 liter tank, I also dont agree with above as it just leads to the "it's fine" or "it will do" response when people are keeping big fish in small tanks. In a tank this size that is just magnified in such a small tank. I think Apistos are way way way too risky to keep in a 25 liter tank the floor print will not be big enough to keep a trio as the females will fight and it wont take long before a dominant one rises and either kills or harasses the sub female as there is not enough room to get out of the way. They are hareem brooders in the wild and in most successful tanks, pairs do happen but not commonly IME. If you put a pair in a small tank there is no garunteed chance they will pair as the female will make a nest as she grows and the males dont keep as stronger territories as they like to patrol a larger area lets call that scenario 1 where the two genders fight for territory and then lets start start scenario two which is the most likely IMO they breed in the small tank and then one time they breed the male decides that he wants to breed again very shortly after the first spawn the female is not ready yet and so gets harassed and in such a small tank she has no where to go and in this situation it never ends well.

Sorry to go so hardline on this but I am very passionate about keeping cichlids and have learned a lot of hard lessons by doing exactly what is being recommended above. IE - keeping them too crammed in and hoping for the best. For long term success with cichlids you need to work out the risks of each individual and act accordingly.

With small tanks to get the most out of them it is important to be clever with them, finding a fish you like and finding an alternative that keeps most of the characteristics of its larger counter part. EG in small tanks you get things like Dwarf Gourami yet in tiny tanks like this you would be better off with Pygmy Gourami. Or an other good example is instead of Neon Tetras get Green Neon Tetras which are becoming increasingly available Green Neons stay under an inch regular Neons go over. Ember Tetras are an other good Tetra for this tank.

If your really interested in keeping cichlids I would recommend a bigger tank but the only ones I can think you might get away with are Laetacara particularly the Red Breasted Acara, Laetacara Dorsiger (there are a few variants of the name but we can stick with this one) they are about the same size as some Apistos perhaps a little more rotund but the best bit is that they take up a much smaller territory and are generally more peaceful towards one an other as they are a true pairing fish.

With the Guppies vs Endlers a small number of Guppies would work but I would stick with all male rather than mixing genders as then you will end up with just the number of fish you put in the tank and a breeding pair or trio would just multiply very quickly.... Same for Endlers.

Hope thats helped.
Wills

Thank you for the advice, I think I am going to go with a couple of male Endlers, I have also had advice about having one Betta on his own. I am considering both but as I mentioned the chap in the shop gave me some very poor advice around pre-cycpling so I am basically starting again. The problem with being a newbie is you can be prone to bad advice, sadly a mistake tends to cost a or some fish lives .

I'm reading this and feeling quite horrified by the suggestions. You've had fish recommended that need more experience than a newbie will have.

Wills has offered some good advice though.

I've had tropical fish for nearly a year now and I'm only just beginning to feel I have the experience to keep fish like cichlids - up until now they've been way out of my league and I still class myself as a newbie.

Kissfn asked how you were cycling your tank and you say it's in the process now. How are you cycling it? Are you using household ammonia and testing the water daily? Perhaps you've been sold some bottled bacteria and told you can add fish straight away - if you have it's bad advice.

I'd head over to the beginners section and have a good read then get a couple of male guppies seen as this is what you seem to like. They have a reletively short life span (about a year - 18 months) and they are a good fish for a beginner. Platies are another good beginner fish as they are hardy little fish.

As mentioned above I was duped, I am going to purchase some Ammonia later and start again. (GRRRRR). The problem is when I do my research I get so many conflicting suggestions, can be relly confusing.

 

[NewbieDerby]

I popped down to pets at home earlier and was really lucky as a met a tropical fish fanatic who gave me real advice on fishless cycling and stocking. I have decided on one Betta and maybe a couple of shrimp, I am also going to get a real plant... I am excited but need to keep cycling and testing .

 

[Akasha72]

there's a host of great advice on here NewbieDerby. There is no-one on here that has anything to gain by helping you. Advice and help is given for free.

What ever you choose in stocking is up to you but I would advise against mixing guppies/endlers with a Betta. The betta will see the guppies as a threat and he will fight to the death.

Stresszyme is good stuff, I've used it myself on new tanks, but it won't cycle a tank all by itself as the bacteria needs ammonia to feed off.

 

[NewbieDerby]

I'm not having anything with the Betta wouldn't be worth the risk or upset of seeing it nipping etc as I have a 4 year old daughter. This forum is amazing and I can tell I'm going to get some fab advice off it.

 

[Corydoralover]

i agree with wills on the issue of apistos but im not entirly sure but if you want ciclids then dicrossius (speling) might work but as i say im not sure. another optin is scarlet badis (dario dario) and mini moth catfish ( hara jerodini)
hope you enjoy your experience on the forum

 

[zuulan]

I would say Guppies and Endlers would be the good choices for your tank.

I would ask why is your temperature at 29 degrees? You should drop it to between 24 and 26 degrees. Fish will feel better and you'll save a few pennies in electric to.

 

[NewbieDerby]

I would say Guppies and Endlers would be the good choices for your tank.

I would ask why is your temperature at 29 degrees? You should drop it to between 24 and 26 degrees. Fish will feel better and you'll save a few pennies in electric to.

It is at 26 degrees, don't know why I said 29. I'm really feeling like a Betta is a good option, I read that guppies like to like is shoals of 6+ and I really couldn't accomodate that.... YET! Haha