Newbie(ish) New Freshwater Aquarium Water Parameters Help Needed!

[ClownLurch]

I’d say Sparkys tests are right. I’m from Washington which was Durham politically until the early 70s and I doubt local govt reorganisation altered the water parameters up Kielder way or the reservoir just along from High Force that I visited in the summer but have completely forgotten the name of……and breath.

 

[Naughts]

Are there any downsides to doing large daily water changes?

Yes if parameters are different in the tank and the source water.

As Byron explained, ammonium is less toxic and occurs in <7pH, ammonia is deadly and occurs in >7pH water. Moving from 6.5 to 7.5 can change ammonium to ammonia which kills fish.

Additionally, the pH scale is logorithmic so 1 point difference has 10 times (greater or fewer) the amount of hydrogen ions, 2 points difference is 100 times the amount. Obviously the parameter difference will be significant for fish forced to try to adjust to a rapid change.

Some fishkeepers believe large water changes are harmful. What is actually harmful is a lack of frequent significant water changes and lack of maintenance which allow the tank parameters to drift away from those in the source water. It is referrred to as 'old tank syndrome'. The problem often is only revealed once a water change becomes necessary (contaminants, disease etc.). In such circumstances water changes should be done daily but start small and gradually increase to significant amounts (50%+).

Hopefully you can pin down your parameters and conditions so you know what you are dealing with.

 

[sparkypenguin]

Update...

I took the advice of @Slaphppy7 and left a cup of tap water overnight before testing it.
I also ensured that I was not over dropping ( Thanks @Byron ).
I also checked Northumbrian Water's most recent yearly report.
These are the results along with my original tank and tap water results.
I have also added a photo of my tank at the end of the post if this helps.

	18/12/21 Tank​	Original 18/12/21 Tap water​	02/01/22 Tank​	04/01/22 Tap water left in cup for 24hrs​	Northumbrian water results Average (Min to Max)​	05/01/22 Tank after approx. 60% water change over previous 3 nights​
pH​	6.5​	7.5​	6.5​	6.5 (Seem Low?)​	7.8 (7 to 8.4) (Large variation?)​	6.5​
AMMONIA ppm​	0​	0​	0​	0​	0.014 (0.014 to 0.014)​	0​
NITRITE ppm​	0.25​	0​	0.25​	0​	0.0035 (0.0035 to 0.0035)​	0​
NITRATE ppm​	5​	0​	20​	<5​	13.312 (1.3 to 19) (Concerning?)​	20​
KH dKH​	4​	8 (over dropping?)​	<2​	<2​	*1 - 4.3 (0.9 to 10.7) (Large variation?)​	<2​
GH dGH​	16​	14 (over dropping?)​	4​	4​	*1 - 5.9 (3.7 to 8.2)​	10​

*1 - I have included the actual report info in its original form below as I am not 100% sure I have converted the GH / KH correctly?

So lots more data and lots more questions

PH
All tank tests I have recorded 6.5 and on last nights tap test I recorded 6.5 however according to NW my tap water is on average 7.8 but ranges from 7 to 8.4.
I do not think I can be messing this test up as it's a pretty straight forward one so I am confused?
Plus even if my recent tap results above were more in line with NW's reported figures than surely the variation NW are finding of between 7 and 8.4 is quite significant.
Could this possibly effect the PH in my tank dangerously for large water changes, i.e. if I changed 50% of my 6.5 water when the tap water is at its highest reading of 8.4 then the 6.5 would increase to 7.5.
Should I be testing my tap water prior to every water change?

Ammonia
This seems to be zero across the board so happy with that.

Nitrite
Apart from my first 2 tank test all others have been zero, although it is quite difficult to read as sometimes the water can look a little pinkish depending on the lighting etc.

Nitrate
The first concern I have with this is that NW are stating an average reading of 13.3 and therefore surely by adding tap water I could be increasing the nitrate level?
In fact the range goes from 1.3 to 19 so should I be testing the tap water before any water changes?

KH
I am ignoring the 18/12/21 readings for both tap and tank as I think I was over dropping.
All test since then have been showing <2, this includes the tap sample that was left overnight.
This does fit with NW's minimum reading of 0.9, however they also state a maximum reading of 10.7 so quite a variation.
I know that <2 is very low and I am concerned that this along with the large variation in NW's PH figures it could be very dangerous.
Also as KH decreases in acidic water then will my tap results of 6.5 and the bog wood tannins be making the issue worse?
So should I be doing something to increase it and if so what?
Would adding coral or limestone work or should I be using a KH buffer for the tap water?
Also can the KH be too high.

GH
I am ignoring the 18/12/21 readings for both tap and tank as I think I was over dropping.
NW state an average of 5.9 with a range of 3.7 to 8.2.
My tests have ranged from 4 to 10.
Am I correct that these figures are all OK but generally seem to indicate that I should be keeping fish that like softer water?
Is it OK to run a community tank containing both soft and hard water fish or is it a case of choosing one based on the water that comes out of my tap?
Also if I were to introduce coral / limestone to increase my KH then will the DH increase permanently?

As stated in my OP I used to keep tropicals around 20 years ago, i.e. before the internet had such forums, and everything now seems so much more complicated!
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Byron]

To summarize from this data. First, the pH. You can accept pH as being around 6.5; the water authority may be adding something to raise it, but that really doesn't matter. When the water settles out it is 6.5, and that is what you are working with. As the aquarium establishes, this will likely lower some, which is not a problem--provided you only keep soft water species (most South American and SE Asian fish species such as tetras, rasboras, loaches, gourami, danios, barbs, most catfish. Avoid all fish requiring harder water, such as livebearers, some rainbowfish, rift lake cichlids. The platies in the photo should be re-homed, they are not going to fare well long-term in this soft and acidic water.

The GH is on the soft side, no problem for soft water fish mentioned above. The KH is low, as would be expected here, no problem.

Be regular (once weekly) with water changes, and change 50-70% of the tank volume at each.

Re the soft and hard water species together...this does not work because there is frankly no middle ground for most fish. Livebearers must have moderately hard water because they need the calcium dissolved in the water in order to function properly. Soft water fish do not need this dissolved calcium, and if it is in the water their kidneys remove the calcium and over time become blocked and the fish die. This is general. There are some soft water species that will manage in water that is on the moderately hard side, but fussing with water parameters is another set of issues that can be problematic. It is always better for the fish and the aquarist to know their source water and select fish that will thrive, or at least be able to thrive, in that water.

 

[sparkypenguin]

Hi all,

It's approx. 2 weeks since the last post on my thread and in this time I have not lost any more fish (2 Panda Corys had previously died).

I have changed to doing daily "primed" water changes of approx. 8%.
I am now happy with my tank readings for Ammonia and Nitrite (both zero).
My nitrate is still around 10 which I am comfortable with but I am going to add some plants to try and reduce this further.

My tank pH is consistently 6.5 but my tap water readings are coming out at around 7.5, I am putting this reduction down largely to the bogwood.
This difference is a bit of a worry especially as my tank KH is only 2, hence I am doing the daily water changes and also I am adding via a drip method overnight.
I am hoping that this will help to minimise any sudden tank pH change.
I am considering putting something into my external filter to try and increase my tank pH to nearer the tap water and would like opinions if this is a good idea and if so what should I add?

If I do add something to raise the tank pH closer to my tap water will this automatically increase my tank KH?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Byron]

My tank pH is consistently 6.5 but my tap water readings are coming out at around 7.5, I am putting this reduction down largely to the bogwood.

Please, carefully read my post #19 which explains the pH fluctuation. The bogwood on its own is not doing this. You really must understand the chemistry or you will have serious issues if you start attempts to mess with the GH/KH/pH. The pH of your tap water is 6.5, not 7.5.

This difference is a bit of a worry especially as my tank KH is only 2, hence I am doing the daily water changes and also I am adding via a drip method overnight.
I am hoping that this will help to minimise any sudden tank pH change.

You do not need to fuss over drip, which frankly achieves nothing anyway. Fish take weeks, not hours, to adjust to pH. And, a change of a few decimal places is not going to harm them anyway. A once weekly water change of a greater volume would have benefit, benefit that daily small changes do not have.

I am considering putting something into my external filter to try and increase my tank pH to nearer the tap water and would like opinions if this is a good idea and if so what should I add?

If I do add something to raise the tank pH closer to my tap water will this automatically increase my tank KH?

Do not do this. You do not need it with soft water fish, and once you start messing with parameters you create a situation that is prone to trouble. Your tap water pH is 6.5 and this is fine.

 

[sparkypenguin]

Please, carefully read my post #19 which explains the pH fluctuation. The bogwood on its own is not doing this. You really must understand the chemistry or you will have serious issues if you start attempts to mess with the GH/KH/pH. The pH of your tap water is 6.5, not 7.5.

Thanks for your reply and I have just read your post #19 again.
Since my #18 post where I stated my overnight water was 6.5 I have tested my tap water on several occasions direct from the tap, before and after primed and also overnight covered and uncovered and they all come out at around 7.5. This makes me think that my original 6.5 cup test may be wrong.
This also correlates with NW's figures of on average 7.8 ranging from 7 to 8.4.
Am I correct that I should ideally be aiming to match my tank pH to my "settled" tap water pH?

 

[Byron]

Thanks for your reply and I have just read your post #19 again.
Since my #18 post where I stated my overnight water was 6.5 I have tested my tap water on several occasions direct from the tap, before and after primed and also overnight covered and uncovered and they all come out at around 7.5. This makes me think that my original 6.5 cup test may be wrong.
This also correlates with NW's figures of on average 7.8 ranging from 7 to 8.4.
Am I correct that I should ideally be aiming to match my tank pH to my "settled" tap water pH?

OK, if the former 6.5 was inaccurate, obviously that may change things. But not much. Assuming now that the tap is 7.5, the KH is 2 dKH which means the pH will naturally tend to lower over time. The biological processes in any aquarium with fish being fed cause CO2 which creates carbonic acid which lowers the pH. The GH and KH can affect this, depending upon their strength. Here the KH is low, and the GH is apparently in the 5.9 range, is this in ppm (= mg/l) or dH?

 

[sparkypenguin]

OK, if the former 6.5 was inaccurate, obviously that may change things. But not much. Assuming now that the tap is 7.5, the KH is 2 dKH which means the pH will naturally tend to lower over time. The biological processes in any aquarium with fish being fed cause CO2 which creates carbonic acid which lowers the pH. The GH and KH can affect this, depending upon their strength. Here the KH is low, and the GH is apparently in the 5.9 range, is this in ppm (= mg/l) or dH?

My tank is consistently around 2 dKH and my tap water readings have varied from <2 up to 8.
In post #18 I provided my local water authority results (table below) but I was not 100% sure I had read them correctly.

My tanks dGH test readings have varied from 4 to 16 but I think some of this variation is down to poor testing on my part. I now think it is around 9.
Based on my tests my tap water I think is about 12, but the above table may contradict this?

I am using an NTLABS test kit.

Am I correct that I should ideally be aiming to match my tank pH to my "settled" tap water pH?

 

[Byron]

Last question first...the GH and KH in the aquarium will tend to be the same or close to the tap water levels. We can target them, adding calcareous rock/gravel/sand to raise the GH for example, and left alone the biology and plants will tend to lower them. The pH is tied to these. As I mentioned previously, all else being equal the pH will become acidic, which is fine for most soft water fish species, but not good for fish from harder water. I have always let the Ph do what it wants in each tank, and it settles out at 6.4 in one tank, 5 in another, or whatever; I have zero GH and KH. Soft water fish thrive in this water.

To the numbers in the chart. The GH on average is 106 mg/l (= ppm) [we can round the numbers up or down for ease] and the KH on average is 76 mg/l (= ppm). The GH of 106 ppm = 6 dH, and the KH of 76 ppm = 4 dKH. With regular water changes, not overstocking, not overfeeding, the pH I would expect to perhaps lower but not a lot. Provided you keep soft water fish, none of this is problematic. But you mention livebearers, and the platies and especially the mollies will not be healthy in this soft water. The tetras and cories are good with what you have.

You can rehome the livebearers and maintain soft water fish with no fussing over parameters--this is without question the easiest and safest approach. Or you can increase the GH (which will automatically increase the KH and pH) to say 12 dH (214 ppm) to provide a good environment for the mollies and platies, but it will not be welcomed by the cories, and possibly the tetras (depending upon species). But to be honest, this is getting pretty high for the soft water fish.

 

[Essjay]

@sparkypenguin Can I ask where you found that "brewers information"? I cannot find that on Northumbrian Water's website.

This is what I get for my address. Do you have a similar page on NW website for your address?

 

[sparkypenguin]

@Byron
Thanks again for all of the help.
I understand that the tank will find it's own level but my main concern is that if my tank pH is 6.5 but tap water is 7.5 then as I have a very low KH that a water change will increase my pH rapidly.
Also the water authority are stating an upper reading pH of 8.4, surely if I was to do a 50% water change with 8.4 water it would be very bad for all of my fish?
So I thought that it would be good to raise my KH and therefore have more of a buffer and less pH fluctuations.

 

[sparkypenguin]

@Essjay
Here is the link

https://www.nwl.co.uk/globalassets/sharepoint-documents/think-digital-documents---all-documents/W201.pdf

Hope that helps.

 

[Essjay]

I have managed to find the same table for my postcode. Last time I looked, the water quality report link form "your local area" gave just the water quality report - it now gives that extra box. I think they revamped the site a few months ago as until recently they didn't give numbers for hardness, only words.

Interesting comparing the two for my address, they are close but not identical. And the table in the water quality report now gives alkalinity.


But I have no idea what the 'total hardness' box in bold refers to

 

[Byron]

@Byron
Thanks again for all of the help.
I understand that the tank will find it's own level but my main concern is that if my tank pH is 6.5 but tap water is 7.5 then as I have a very low KH that a water change will increase my pH rapidly.
Also the water authority are stating an upper reading pH of 8.4, surely if I was to do a 50% water change with 8.4 water it would be very bad for all of my fish?
So I thought that it would be good to raise my KH and therefore have more of a buffer and less pH fluctuations.

This can be an issue, but not always. I have tap water with a pH of 8.6 now, achieved by adding soda ash. I have been doing slightly smaller-volume water changes, as the pH in my tanks is in the 5-6 range. You could check to see if they add anything to your water.