Newbie Help - Can't Get Tank Ready For Fish :(

[jimxms]

Hi Everyone,

Please be gentle as this is my first foray into fish keeping!

Basically I purchased an ex-display 120L Jewel fish tank from the local aquarium store about 2 1/2 weeks ago. Got it home, gave it a good clean out (although it was already pretty clean). Put some cleaned gravel in there with a couple of small plants and filled it up slowly using the hosepipe from our garden.

I treated the water with a bottle of solution (sorry i threw the bottle away) that the aquarium store gave us and left the pump and lights in the aquarium running for a week.

At that point I took a sample of water back to the aquarium store who basically spat their tea out when they tested it as the Nitrite and Nitrate results came back the darkest shade of purple. PH and Ammonia on the other hand were just fine.They told me to leave the tank running for another week and bring back another sample then.

Instead of doing the trekk back to theirs, I purchased a Nutrafin testing kit and waited a week before running the first test.

The next test came back just as bad as what I had seen in the aquarium store. Both Nitrite and Nitrate results went dark purple within seconds of shaking the test tubes.

At this point, pretty miffed and with my kids on the verge of tears because they couldn't pick their fish I decided to pull out the filter and give it a soak in boiling hot water! This is probably where you'll tell me I screwed up, but I reasoned to myself that something bad may have been in the filters causing these high levels.

Anyway. I ran the tests again this evening, a further 4 days from the last test and once again the results are off the chart:

Nitrite = > 3.3
Nitrate = 110
PH = 7.5
Ammonia = 0

Please help, as my kids aren't impressed by the snails that have set up camp in the tank

 

[David J]

Hi Jim

Have a read at the sticky on 'fishless cycling' in the beginners resource centre in the 'your new freshwater tank' forum. It is what I am using now to get my first tank ready. It takes time but will be worth it in the long run. The kids will be even more upset if you get fish that end up sick, or worse.

Check it out and if you have any questions about the process, post again. There are lots of experienced people here that will get you sorted.

This will take you to the fishless cycling sticky.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/

This is my log on my cycle which may or may not help.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/412111-my-fish-less-cycle/

David

 

[jimxms]

Thanks for the reply David. I've just had a read of the thread you mentioned.

It looks like one of the main missing ingredients in my setup is the adding of ammonia and testing the water regularly to see how the tank deals with it?

My question now I suppose is what should be my next step? Should I do a complete water change and start again? Should I also get new filters or stick with the existing ones that came with the tank?

 

[phoenixgsd]

yes its the ammonia your missing, in short, you need to add it to the water as the links explain, your filter will grow a colony of bacteria and transform the ammonia into nitrite, you need that bacteria to keep your fish happy and healthy, this whole process will take a while but its well worth it, it just a pity you could have been 1/2 way through your cycle if you'd started adding ammonia 2 and 1/2 weeks ago nevermind onwards and upwards, just remember dont ever wash the filter, only gently rinse in old used tank water very occasionally as water that hasnt been dechlorinised will kill the bacteria in your filter

 

[David J]

Hi Jim,

I'm by no means an expert but I am fairly certain that there is no need to get a new filter. Just make sure the filter media is clean by rinsing in tank water, NOT tap water, and only rinse, not scrub. Basically you are just looking to get rid of any build up of debris. The filter media is where the bacteria you need will colonise. Dont have it out of water for any significant amount of time otherwise you will kill off any bacteria that may be present.

As for your next step, hopefully someone with more cycling experience can offer some advice there as I am only half way through my first ever cycle but it is amazing how much I've picked up in the last few weeks. For now, until/unless someone says otherwise, I would start the 'add and wait' method of cycle. I got a bottle of pure ammonia from home base. I wouldn't bother changing the water. Curiously, the fact that you are showing nitrite means that you must have some bacteria present that is processing ammonia. My tests at the beginning of the cycle showed ammonia but no nitrite. Nitrite didn't show up until a couple of days ago. I guess this must be something to do with the solution you added. Was the tank on display with fish in it? If so, did they sell you the filter that they were using? If this is the case, it might explain how there is some bacteria there already. Just a thought. If that is the case, it's good news because it gives you a bit of a head start and you just need to start following the right steps to move forward.

Like I said Jim, I'm a newbie but have learnt a lot but hopefully some of the more experienced folks will confirm what to do. I don't think it will do any harm if you just start the add and wait cycle now. Oh, another option is getting hold of some already matured media from somewhere. Maybe ask the shop you got it from.

Keep us posted.

David.

 

[jimxms]

Hi Jim,

I'm by no means an expert but I am fairly certain that there is no need to get a new filter. Just make sure the filter media is clean by rinsing in tank water, NOT tap water, and only rinse, not scrub. Basically you are just looking to get rid of any build up of debris. The filter media is where the bacteria you need will colonise. Dont have it out of water for any significant amount of time otherwise you will kill off any bacteria that may be present.

As for your next step, hopefully someone with more cycling experience can offer some advice there as I am only half way through my first ever cycle but it is amazing how much I've picked up in the last few weeks. For now, until/unless someone says otherwise, I would start the 'add and wait' method of cycle. I got a bottle of pure ammonia from home base. I wouldn't bother changing the water. Curiously, the fact that you are showing nitrite means that you must have some bacteria present that is processing ammonia. My tests at the beginning of the cycle showed ammonia but no nitrite. Nitrite didn't show up until a couple of days ago. I guess this must be something to do with the solution you added. Was the tank on display with fish in it? If so, did they sell you the filter that they were using? If this is the case, it might explain how there is some bacteria there already. Just a thought. If that is the case, it's good news because it gives you a bit of a head start and you just need to start following the right steps to move forward.

Like I said Jim, I'm a newbie but have learnt a lot but hopefully some of the more experienced folks will confirm what to do. I don't think it will do any harm if you just start the add and wait cycle now. Oh, another option is getting hold of some already matured media from somewhere. Maybe ask the shop you got it from.

Keep us posted.

David.

Thanks again David.

To answer your questions, the tank wasn't on display with fish in it - in fact it looked brand new when we bought it. It had definitely been used though as the filter was really quite dirty when I pulled it out to clean it on week 2.


I do believe I may have made a massive boo-boo though......

When I set up the tank we had absolutely no idea how big it was. So I used an online calculator to find out its capacity in Litres from the HxWxD of the tank, and applied this to how much of the 'solution' I was given by the aquatics store should be placed in the tank.

Anyway, I'm fairly sure that this is the solution:

http/www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/Products/HB5301/nutrafin-aqua-plus

And somehow my calculations went wrong.....because I dumped the whole bottle of it in our 120L tank and also concluded that I may have even needed 6ml more!

On the website linked it says it treats 1000L

What have I done

 

[David J]

Hi

The general opinion on this forum seems to be that these products are no good and there is no substitute for dosing with ammonia. I received something similar with my aquarium and used it (with the recommended dose) but also used pure ammonia along side it. I was told it won't do any harm but may not make any positive difference.

I would just get cracking with the add and wait method and test daily and post your results. I don't think it's a problem using the existing water but again it won't do any harm changing it. You need to be happy and confident with what you are doing so whatever makes you more comfortable.

EDIT: just clicked on the link you provided. That product is for dechlorinating the water and nothing to do with the cycle. The product I had was called nutrafin cycle. I might be wrong and hopefully someone else will confirm but given that you have used the whole bottle of this I think you might be better doing a 100% water change before starting the cycle. I read somewhere that when adding these products, more is not better and to stick to the recommended dose. If you do change the water you must dechlorinate the new water. Chlorine kills the bacteria you are trying to create. Just be sure to use the correct dose.

If you can get your own test kit you won't have to make trips back and forward to the pet shop. I use the API freshwater liquid test kit. Ideally during the cycle you should be testing every 24 hours and eventually, later in the cycle, every 12 hours. This way you can see small changes and adapt your approach accordingly before it developes. For example, I've been told that very high nitrite could stall the culture of the bacteria you are trying to get a colony of. If you notice them going up and up each day you can do something about it but if you only test once a week the cycle may have already stalled before you even know there was an issue.

To the forum: Does any other forum members here have an opinion on whether Jim should change the water before starting the cycle?

David.

 

[msasa19]

this is what you need to buy and add to your tank.

http/www.ebay.co.u...=item564c2066c3

then follow the instructions in the link.

do you know anyone with a cycled fish tank that could give you some of their filter media, it will speed up the process considerably.

also get this http/www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1311&_nkw=api+freshwater+master+test+kit&_sacat=0&_from=R40

its the cheapest you will find it

 

[daizeUK]

I would definitely do a full water change if you've put 10x the recommended dose of dechlorinator in.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I treated the water with a bottle of solution (sorry i threw the bottle away) that the aquarium store gave us and left the pump and lights in the aquarium running for a week.

Right there is the problem. What is this solution? What is its purpose? What's the proper dosage?


If I were you, I'd go back to square one - sorry, but its true. You've successfully killed any and all bacteria in your filter media - not the worst thing, as you've killed any bad bacteria, but you've also killed the beneficial NITRIFYING bacteria you need to culture. Don't throw away the media now, just rinse it in dechlorinated water.


Get a sample of your tap water - and leave it to sit out for 24 hours. Then test it for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

Empty your tank of water, and refill. This time add 1.5X the recommended dosage for your dechlorinator (Seachem Prime, Stress Coat, Tap Safe, etc.) Why the extra? Sometimes water companies add a bit of extra chlorine. This will counteract that, without an overdose that will cause trouble.

Raise your temp up to 29C (84F) and raise the pH to 8.4 (using baking soda/sodium bicarbonate - adding 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water and retest until you get to the pH you want).

Then, dose 3ppm ammonia using the kind that has no perfume, no surfactants of any time. (It will REALLY help to invest in a medicine syringe for children's liquid medicine to dose ammonia, filling test tubes, dosing meds, etc. Very cheap at local drug store/pharmacy/chemist.) Then sit back and be patient.

Remain strong, I understand the broken heartedly look on your child's face with the empty tank, but truthfully, it beats the look on their face when their favorite fish dies. So, just use that time to help teach the children the science behind the process, and tell them that you are going to wait until it is safe for the fish to be in the tank before entering it. Just like you wouldn't put them in a dangerous situation, you won't do it to the fish either. They can understand that.

Patience. Read through the fishless cycle thread and the rest of the Beginners Resource Center. Lots of information and plenty to keep you busy while you wait. Research fish that work best in your water conditions and your tank. Research plants, research biotypes, research research research! The more you learn the better you can avoid problems before they arise.

 

[Boromir]

Cant say much more on what has already been said but if I was you I would sort out the snails if they are getting out of control before adding fish. Maybe a total clearout of the tank or add anti snail treatment but I think some of these are not so good for fish.

 

[FishLover4+1]

Good luck!!!

 

[jimxms]

Well i spoke to local pet shop and they said to just go for it, so last saturday we added 4 mollys and 2 platys, all seem to be doing ok and one of the mollys started having babies today, not checked water levels again yet will do it this weekend. We ended up removing 20 percent of the water and adding a different combo of solutions from the pet shop. Hopefully no dead fish means its worked

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Are you testing the ammonia and nitrite? Don't "hope" - know.

 

[jimxms]

no as i said will be doing it this weekend