New to tropical fish - seeking some advice

[jonnyc88]

Tested water today and ammonia still high at about 4ppm. PH is 7.4, nitrite 0.25ppm and nitrates 5ppm so looks ok to me. Weird. Just have very small feed to fish as well.

Thinking of performing 25% water change and add API AmmoLock until levels go down. Should I do this or just wait? Could be the cycle starting again? Also ordered Seachem Prime to use instead of fluval to condition water on water changes as it also helps remove ammonia.

Ordered mechanical media to service my filter and plan to add activated carbon to the basket.

 

[Essjay]

You don't need carbon, it won't help with ammonia. All carbon does is remove things like medication and tannins.

Water changes need to be more than 25%. They should be big enough to get ammonia and nitrite down to zero.

Prime does not remove ammonia - or nitrite or nitrate - it temporarily detoxifies them. After 24 to 36 hours the effect wears off and they become toxic again. The filter bacteria can still 'eat' the detoxified ammonia and nitrite and they still show up in tests.
The way to use Prime is to use it to treat the new water during a water change and it will keep the fish safe for 24 hours. If after 24 hours there is still a reading for ammonia and/or nitrite, another water change is needed.

API ammo-lock does the same as Prime (except that it does not detoxify nitrite); it is a water conditioner which removes chlorine and detoxifies ammonia but the effect will wear off.


This thread is quite long now; instead of going back through everything, can you tell me if you have any live plants in the tank?

 

[jonnyc88]

You don't need carbon, it won't help with ammonia. All carbon does is remove things like medication and tannins.

Water changes need to be more than 25%. They should be big enough to get ammonia and nitrite down to zero.

Prime does not remove ammonia - or nitrite or nitrate - it temporarily detoxifies them. After 24 to 36 hours the effect wears off and they become toxic again. The filter bacteria can still 'eat' the detoxified ammonia and nitrite and they still show up in tests.
The way to use Prime is to use it to treat the new water during a water change and it will keep the fish safe for 24 hours. If after 24 hours there is still a reading for ammonia and/or nitrite, another water change is needed.

API ammo-lock does the same as Prime (except that it does not detoxify nitrite); it is a water conditioner which removes chlorine and detoxifies ammonia but the effect will wear off.


This thread is quite long now; instead of going back through everything, can you tell me if you have any live plants in the tank?

Sorry for the long thread, have a habit of keeping things in one place

Yes, I do have live plants in the tank.

I did a big water change yesterday, 50% then top up and followed by 70% and top up afterwards.

I might be over feeding as the were food waste and tank smelled really bad yesterday before the water change. However would’ve expected the ammonia to go down by now after the big water change.

The addition of carbon to my media basket is mainly to help other contaminants not specifically for the ammonia, although I heard zeolite would help in that case.

I’m just puzzled by the ammonia levels. Perhaps it’s duff test kit? I will get some strips to verify this. Might also ask my daughter to use the API Master Kit on her shrimp tank.

 

[Essjay]

You could try the ammonia test on your tap water. If it's treated with chloramine there would be a small reading for ammonia, but if it also reads a large amount there's something wrong with the tester.

The trouble with using something like zeolite, which does remove ammonia rather than detoxify it, is 1) it gets full and stops working so it needs replacing before it gets full and 2) it starves the bacteria in the tank.

Live plants remove ammonia and if there are enough of them they should remove all the ammonia made by a sensibly stocked tank of fish.


Carbon will remove organic contaminants, if your tank has something like that. But tank water should not smell, except a general sort of earthy smell.
How much food are you putting in for how many fish?

 

[jonnyc88]

You could try the ammonia test on your tap water. If it's treated with chloramine there would be a small reading for ammonia, but if it also reads a large amount there's something wrong with the tester.

The trouble with using something like zeolite, which does remove ammonia rather than detoxify it, is 1) it gets full and stops working so it needs replacing before it gets full and 2) it starves the bacteria in the tank.

Live plants remove ammonia and if there are enough of them they should remove all the ammonia made by a sensibly stocked tank of fish.


Carbon will remove organic contaminants, if your tank has something like that. But tank water should not smell, except a general sort of earthy smell.
How much food are you putting in for how many fish?

Good idea, I will treat tap water with some Fluval conditioner as I haven’t got the Prime yet and report back.

I have quite a lot of live plants in my tank and in the past the ammonia levels were always low.
I used to feed twice a day with flakes, corydoras tablets, bug bites and sometimes also hikari micro pallets and NLS micro pallets. I think it’s too much as there will be leftovers on the substrate.
I have 16 corydoras, 10 barbs , 15 neons and 10 cardinals. I think they are all still there as I can’t find any dead bodies ...

I plan to service my filter once a month anyway so I would think adding activated carbon which is changed every month wouldn’t be a bad thing ?

Picture of plants in my tank attached. There are some floating Silvanias and little of the plants like the background to the left and right.

 

[Byron]

This is a long thread, and most of us will not read through 14 pages of posts to find something, so expect questions repeated. No problem, though it might be time to start a new thread on the one issue, and not include side issues.

This tank is well planted, the earlier video (I did hunt back to find it!) shows this, and there is absolutely no reason for ammonia to be above zero. Unless chloramine is added to your tap water, which can cause a minor reading (say 0.25). I would not replace the carbon; this is removing some plant-necessary nutrients, especially dissolved organic carbon, and there is no point in thwarting what will help you more (the plants).

Substantial water changes, 75-80% of the tank volume at each one, will not harm anything. There may be something chemical in the water from past issues, don't know, but clean water never hurt any fish. As I posted elsewhere yesterday, we must always keep in mind that an aquarium even though it is an artificial eco-system, still operates completely in accordance with the laws of science, biology and chemistry. And every substance we add to the tank water is going to impact those operations, sometimes with no problem, sometimes seriously.

 

[jonnyc88]

This is a long thread, and most of us will not read through 14 pages of posts to find something, so expect questions repeated. No problem, though it might be time to start a new thread on the one issue, and not include side issues.

This tank is well planted, the earlier video (I did hunt back to find it!) shows this, and there is absolutely no reason for ammonia to be above zero. Unless chloramine is added to your tap water, which can cause a minor reading (say 0.25).

Substantial water changes, 75-80% of the tank volume at each one, will not harm anything. There may be something chemical in the water from past issues, don't know, but clean water never hurt any fish. As I posted elsewhere yesterday, we must always keep in mind that an aquarium even though it is an artificial eco-system, still operates completely in accordance with the laws of science, biology and chemistry. And every substance we add to the tank water is going to impact those operations, sometimes with no problem, sometimes seriously.

Thanks @Byron. I will remember to start new thread next time I have new questions

Regarding water change, if my tank is starting new cycle, would substantial water changes affect it?

How often should I do the water changes if so, daily?

 

[Byron]

Thanks @Byron. I will remember to start new thread next time I have new questions

Regarding water change, if my tank is starting new cycle, would substantial water changes affect it?

How often should I do the water changes if so, daily?

First, your tank is not starting a new cycle. It is not going to cycle at all, with the plants. The aim is to clean up whatever is possibly wrong, and move forward.

Second, in no-plant tanks during the initial cycle, as in "fishless cycling," there is no need for water changes. Unless fish are present obviously, and again no plants.

Given the test numbers, which I still question as really being accurate for some reason we are not seeing, water changes daily will not hurt. Once things seem settled, a water change of 60-70% once a week is good. I've been doing this for over a decade.

 

[Essjay]

Clutching at straws - what brand tester are you using for ammonia, and how are you doing the test, the exact method you use?

 

[jonnyc88]

Thanks @Byron and @essjay for your assistance.
I’ve just tested tap water and ammonia levels are virtually zero so it’s my tank water which definitely has the ammonia

I use API Master Test Kit. I followed API’s instruction. 5ml tank water, 8 drops of solution 1 then 8 drops of solution 2 and shake. Wait for 5 minutes to observe colour.

So what’s best next steps? Should I do big water changes 70% daily until ammonia levels are down?

I don’t think I will treat with AmmoLock as that will middle things. Will just use water conditioners.

Is it ok for me to service my filters? I’ll be rinsing some media in tank water and replacing a sponge top media. Might also add small bag of activated carbon at the bottom media basket.

Attached is my media setup. I will be replacing the wool and adding the small bag of activated carbon on top of the bottom sintered glass.

 

[jonnyc88]

Part of me is also tempted to swap out my filter for a Fluval but I think that would be frivolous and possibly cause more harm?

 

[Byron]

Keep the filter rinsed so the water is able to get through the media as necessary. Media (none of it) needs replacing unless it no longer does what it is supposed to do. The white foam/floss (whatever it is) can get out of shape in time and need replacing because the water can get around it, but otherwise, just rinse out the sludge.

What chemicals have you been using? Be specific, brand and name, and when last used.

 

[Essjay]

You are doing the test correctly, I did say I was clutching at straws

The black sponge in a filter is usually a carbon impregnated sponge. Do the instructions say whether it is a carbon sponge in your filter? If it is, you don't need to add a bag of carbon.

 

[jonnyc88]

You are doing the test correctly, I did say I was clutching at straws

The black sponge in a filter is usually a carbon impregnated sponge. Do the instructions say whether it is a carbon sponge in your filter? If it is, you don't need to add a bag of carbon.

My filter doesn’t come with carbon but on their page they mentioned that it’s possible to get small bag, fill it with activated carbon and put it in between existing media.

 

[jonnyc88]

Keep the filter rinsed so the water is able to get through the media as necessary. Media (none of it) needs replacing unless it no longer does what it is supposed to do. The white foam/floss (whatever it is) can get out of shape in time and need replacing because the water can get around it, but otherwise, just rinse out the sludge.

What chemicals have you been using? Be specific, brand and name, and when last used.

Just did a 70% water change and only chemical used was the Fluval water conditioner. Water looks really clear now though. I will wait until tomorrow to retest for ammonia.

When I did big water change yesterday I used Fluval conditioner, API quick start and API AmmoLock. I’ve dosed as per recommendation.

My filter pipes are transparent and during the last few days noticed that they got really dirty. Lots of green stuff especially on the output pipe. Perhaps it’s worth quick maintenance.

According to the manufacturer of my filter (Aqua One Ocellaris 850) the recommendation is to change the top wool mechanical filter every 4-6 weeks.

Aqua One Ocellaris 850 and 850UV Spares & Accessories | Aqua One Parts

Ocellaris 850 and 850UV Spares & Accessories Aqua One Parts | Aquarium Spares & Accessories

aqua-one-parts.co.uk