New To Tff, Here To Learn How To Stopping Killing Fish
- Thread starter DavidYazel
- Start date
-
- Tags
- intro
yes, always remove carbon - it's only needed for removing medications when the time is up. For anything else it's useless.
A quarantine tank is a great idea if you've got the space for one.
As to your catfish - catfish have different scales to other fish. Catfish scales are amour plated and less susceptable to things such as white spot. It's always a good idea to be wary of salt when you have catfish as many don't tolerate it well.
A quarantine tank is a great idea if you've got the space for one.
As to your catfish - catfish have different scales to other fish. Catfish scales are amour plated and less susceptable to things such as white spot. It's always a good idea to be wary of salt when you have catfish as many don't tolerate it well.
The main thing is to be gentle with the fish. Personally, I prefer not to add water from the LFS just in case. Sometimes I have even taken a sample of the water that fish have travelled in and not been impressed!DavidYazel said:
+1 for a Q tank, plus trying to find a good LFS. The LFS that called you an idiot are the idiots, as they do not know what good customer service is! If that happened in the UK the person could well be facing a disciplinary or even the sack! Stay away from them if I was you.
OP
OP
DavidYazel
Mostly New Member
I am really appreciating all the help! It is nice to not be on my own through this process. Can someone confirm my last fish left alive is a Otocinclus? It is the only fish my wife bought and I am not sure the species. And I have a tank devoid of algae I wonder if I should be feeding it something other than fish flakes. I have had him about 4 months. Usually he hides and then comes out at feeding time and vacuums the floor. Since the rest of the fish died and I bumped the temp to 87 to kill the Ich he spends most of the time sitting right at the base of the heater... why would that be? Sorry for the bad quality pictures but with my iPhone on zoom the quality is bad. How is he looking? its day 5 at 87 degrees.
Attachments
ShinySideUp
Fish Herder
Your last fish left alive is a corydorus -- cory for short; they do not like warm water. 88 degrees -- 31 Celsius is way too warm for it and it is not likely to last much longer.
I know many people use temperature to kill Ich but there are so many good chemicals on the market that will kill it if used properly without 'boiling' the water. Ich has different life stages and you can only kill it when it is in the active stage. Each active stage lasts about a week so you need to dose for three weeks -- the precise instructions will be in the box, follow them carefully.
The cory that you have will not do particulary well witht he substrate you have as they have barbels that will get worn away as it tries to get food from between the stones -- they prefer a sand substrate -- but it will survive, all other things considered.
My suggestion as you stand now is to reduce the temperature to 24 degrees Celsius, introduce a chemical Ich-killer and importantly, remove any carbon filtration as it will remove the medicine from the water. If your cory survives I suggest you continue with only that fish and over several weeks introduce other cory's one at a time and allow the filter to bring up a bacterial colony. Don't wash any of your filter material in ordinary water, just squeeze it out in old tank water -- if it even needs cleaning at all (and i doubt it will with only a very few fish (one) in the tank).
In summary:
Lower the temperature - do it now or the cory will die.
Chemical Ich treatment, properly used.
Regular water changes -- weekly and try to change 50% for the next few weeks, less later on if you like (I always change 50% per week and I have a 640 litre tank). Use Seachem Prime to condition the water as you put it in, it is efficient and economical.
Add fish gradually, do not try to hurry the bacterial colony, one cory every two weeks will be quite enough.
Eventually your bacteria will build and you can add fish more often and more at a time -- do not go silly, filter bacteria mutiply fast once established but they are not supermen.
One last thing. Try to find a dedicated fish shop; they know far more about the fish they carry and are more likely to care about those same fish. Large multiples have a fish section with the odd person who might have little more than a passing familiarity with fish-keeping. I'm sure there are some very concientious people in the stores but unless you know for sure, don't go near big pet stores. Ask around your area, I am sure there are reputable stores within fifty miles -- even in the States (it is pretty big after all).
I know many people use temperature to kill Ich but there are so many good chemicals on the market that will kill it if used properly without 'boiling' the water. Ich has different life stages and you can only kill it when it is in the active stage. Each active stage lasts about a week so you need to dose for three weeks -- the precise instructions will be in the box, follow them carefully.
The cory that you have will not do particulary well witht he substrate you have as they have barbels that will get worn away as it tries to get food from between the stones -- they prefer a sand substrate -- but it will survive, all other things considered.
My suggestion as you stand now is to reduce the temperature to 24 degrees Celsius, introduce a chemical Ich-killer and importantly, remove any carbon filtration as it will remove the medicine from the water. If your cory survives I suggest you continue with only that fish and over several weeks introduce other cory's one at a time and allow the filter to bring up a bacterial colony. Don't wash any of your filter material in ordinary water, just squeeze it out in old tank water -- if it even needs cleaning at all (and i doubt it will with only a very few fish (one) in the tank).
In summary:
Lower the temperature - do it now or the cory will die.
Chemical Ich treatment, properly used.
Regular water changes -- weekly and try to change 50% for the next few weeks, less later on if you like (I always change 50% per week and I have a 640 litre tank). Use Seachem Prime to condition the water as you put it in, it is efficient and economical.
Add fish gradually, do not try to hurry the bacterial colony, one cory every two weeks will be quite enough.
Eventually your bacteria will build and you can add fish more often and more at a time -- do not go silly, filter bacteria mutiply fast once established but they are not supermen.
One last thing. Try to find a dedicated fish shop; they know far more about the fish they carry and are more likely to care about those same fish. Large multiples have a fish section with the odd person who might have little more than a passing familiarity with fish-keeping. I'm sure there are some very concientious people in the stores but unless you know for sure, don't go near big pet stores. Ask around your area, I am sure there are reputable stores within fifty miles -- even in the States (it is pretty big after all).
it's definitely a peppered cory - looks to be a male.
A few things you need to know about cories (and I'll most likely be repeating what the other guys have said) Cories don't like it too warm - 24-25 degrees no more. The peppered variety can stand it even a little lower at 22-23. Cories need to have a sand substrate (or at least a soft rounded pebble base) as they sift the substrate for food. If you want to keep them as they are in nature I'd change your substrate for sand - kids play sand is the cheapest and so long as it's non-toxic it's perfectly safe to use. Cories have very delicate mouths and a rough gravel (such as you have) will wear away their whiskers (barbels) very quickly. Once the barbels are gone they are unlikely to grow back. Cories are also a shoaling species and so need to be in a group of 5 or 6 and that group needs to be of their own type. So you have a peppered cory and so you need to get 4 or 5 more peppered cories.
Hope that helps you
A few things you need to know about cories (and I'll most likely be repeating what the other guys have said) Cories don't like it too warm - 24-25 degrees no more. The peppered variety can stand it even a little lower at 22-23. Cories need to have a sand substrate (or at least a soft rounded pebble base) as they sift the substrate for food. If you want to keep them as they are in nature I'd change your substrate for sand - kids play sand is the cheapest and so long as it's non-toxic it's perfectly safe to use. Cories have very delicate mouths and a rough gravel (such as you have) will wear away their whiskers (barbels) very quickly. Once the barbels are gone they are unlikely to grow back. Cories are also a shoaling species and so need to be in a group of 5 or 6 and that group needs to be of their own type. So you have a peppered cory and so you need to get 4 or 5 more peppered cories.
Hope that helps you
OP
OP
DavidYazel
Mostly New Member
Thanks for the information. I will have to figure out that to do. My daughter wants the Platy's for their color and variety, so I am probably not going to go with a Cory only-tank. If this one survives the Ich treatment I can change to sand. Is it harder to vacuum sand? I feel I have read every blog post on the internet about Ich and treatments. Some recommend medicine after removing carbon filter but it often kills plants often and some stain the tank and some are also toxic to some species of fish. Then there is the heat method which is supposed to preserve the plants but is hard on cold-loving fish. Then there is heat+salt which is another debate and then heat+salt+darkness. As a new aquarist it can be a hard thing to make a decision. I know I can't trust the PetSmart guys and everyone online has very strong opinions. I had decided to go with the heat treatment because it was the advice at least 50 percent of the time. After 6 days using the heat method i guess i could switch to medicine, but which one? RidIch+ by Kordon (malachite green + formalite - causes cancer in fish), Mardel Coppersafe (copper - toxic to fish), Marineland Ich Remedy (Victoria Green, Nitromersol - Stains tank, decorations and seals blue), Tetra Ich Guard (Victoria Green, Acriflavine - Stains tank, decorations and seals blue) or National Geographic Herbal Ich Relief (citris oil, black pepper oil, etc - effectiveness debate)
David - I think you are over thinking a little. If you are sick you take medicine and the same applies to our animals. The best way to treat fish illness is with a medicine. You can treat ich with heat and salt but that doesn't work well for all fish. The little cory you have can't tolerate salt and they don't like heat either.
My best guess would be right now is that the cory isn't affected by ich - he certainly looks okay and because cories are armour plated it can protect them from such diseases. The problem is that you will have the ich spores on every surface of your tank and we need to kill them before you add any more fish. I can't advise you on which is the best medication as I live in the U.K and what is available here and what you guys can get over there is very different. I like Waterlife for medicines and they do do a very good Whitespot treatment it's called Protozin http
/www.waterlife.co.uk/tropical/d-0/protozin-detail#.VpeduvmLTIU I've used this myself a few times over the years and it works. If it is available in the U.S I'd suggest using that one. The guys from the States will be able to advise on other meds if that one isn't available to you.
Once your treatment has run it's course (follow the instructions to the letter) I'd make that the time to change your substrate to sand. You'll have to take everything out anyway so it will give you chance to give your decor a scrub and clean the tank too. You can buy aquarium cleaning solutions and because you've had so many problems I'd consider getting one and cleaning all the surfaces. This way you remove any chance of anything remaining in the tank ready to re-infect any new fish.
Once your done with that it's a clean slate and you can begin again. I'd agree with Shiny Side Up - add some more cories one at a time until you get up to 5 or 6. If you like platies then fine - they'll live happily with the cories. In general cories are soft water fish and platies prefer it harder but in general platies are also a good fish to 'cut your teeth on' ... they don't live long (about 2 years) and can be fairly easy going. They are a great learner fish and as you say - they are nice and colourful.
What I would say is to read up on sexing platies. If you get a mix of males and females you'll be over-run with them in no time. They breed like rabbits. Better to have an all female group or an all male group. Be aware that female are generally pregnant when you buy them so make sure to remove any babies in case there's a male amongst them
Hopefully we're slowly getting you on the right track now
My best guess would be right now is that the cory isn't affected by ich - he certainly looks okay and because cories are armour plated it can protect them from such diseases. The problem is that you will have the ich spores on every surface of your tank and we need to kill them before you add any more fish. I can't advise you on which is the best medication as I live in the U.K and what is available here and what you guys can get over there is very different. I like Waterlife for medicines and they do do a very good Whitespot treatment it's called Protozin http
/www.waterlife.co.uk/tropical/d-0/protozin-detail#.VpeduvmLTIU I've used this myself a few times over the years and it works. If it is available in the U.S I'd suggest using that one. The guys from the States will be able to advise on other meds if that one isn't available to you. Once your treatment has run it's course (follow the instructions to the letter) I'd make that the time to change your substrate to sand. You'll have to take everything out anyway so it will give you chance to give your decor a scrub and clean the tank too. You can buy aquarium cleaning solutions and because you've had so many problems I'd consider getting one and cleaning all the surfaces. This way you remove any chance of anything remaining in the tank ready to re-infect any new fish.
Once your done with that it's a clean slate and you can begin again. I'd agree with Shiny Side Up - add some more cories one at a time until you get up to 5 or 6. If you like platies then fine - they'll live happily with the cories. In general cories are soft water fish and platies prefer it harder but in general platies are also a good fish to 'cut your teeth on' ... they don't live long (about 2 years) and can be fairly easy going. They are a great learner fish and as you say - they are nice and colourful.
What I would say is to read up on sexing platies. If you get a mix of males and females you'll be over-run with them in no time. They breed like rabbits. Better to have an all female group or an all male group. Be aware that female are generally pregnant when you buy them so make sure to remove any babies in case there's a male amongst them
Hopefully we're slowly getting you on the right track now
I have always used salt with some heat to eradicate ich but cories are one of the fish that are sensitive to too much salt. My cory only tank I keep at around 70ºF, 21ºC and the fish thrive in it. I also use mostly rain water in that tank because of the high mineral content of my tap water. No matter what your daughter wants, do not add any fish to that tank until the ich is gone. If she likes platies, get her a small 10 gallon of her own and she can raise all the platies she wants to. Ich cannot survive long without a host and at over 80ºF you have shortened their life cycle so once the last sign of ich is gone a simple week long wait while continuing the treatment is plenty to assure you have a tank free of ich. Meanwhile, in your tank, follow the advice already given and add new fish very slowly only after all traces of ich are gone. There is no point in infesting new fish with ich parasites. That means a new peppered cory every week or two until you have at least 6. By then I am guessing you will see a much more playful fish in your cories than you ever suspected was possible.
Do you know what you have coming out of your water faucet? Do you have hard or soft water? Does the local authority add to the pH to reduce water pipe rusting/corrosion like mine does? In my part of the country my water is considered relatively soft because the municipality uses a softener to reduce the dissolved chemicals but it still runs over 200 ppm of TDS so not what any fish keeper would call soft. Rain water, that I use for 2/3 of the water in my cory tanks, runs about 5 ppm by comparison. You can keep most popular fish in any pH from about 6.0 to 8.0 as long as you acclimate them properly, no matter their ideal value, so add nothing to control pH since you are very likely to have water in that range. Try going on line and checking the latest water quality report by your water provider, they are often easy to find. That will at least tell you where you are starting.
Never adjust temperatures, pH or other parameters drastically. Fish will adapt to your water but if you change it they need to adapt all over again. Think more in terms of letting them settle in to your water conditions.
Do you know what you have coming out of your water faucet? Do you have hard or soft water? Does the local authority add to the pH to reduce water pipe rusting/corrosion like mine does? In my part of the country my water is considered relatively soft because the municipality uses a softener to reduce the dissolved chemicals but it still runs over 200 ppm of TDS so not what any fish keeper would call soft. Rain water, that I use for 2/3 of the water in my cory tanks, runs about 5 ppm by comparison. You can keep most popular fish in any pH from about 6.0 to 8.0 as long as you acclimate them properly, no matter their ideal value, so add nothing to control pH since you are very likely to have water in that range. Try going on line and checking the latest water quality report by your water provider, they are often easy to find. That will at least tell you where you are starting.
Never adjust temperatures, pH or other parameters drastically. Fish will adapt to your water but if you change it they need to adapt all over again. Think more in terms of letting them settle in to your water conditions.
OP
OP
DavidYazel
Mostly New Member
Here is an update. My little Cory lived and the Ich is gone. I dropped the temp is back down where it should be I put a thermometer in the tank so I can better track that. I switched from live plants to artificial for my own peace of mind. Trying a planted tank when I am still working on keeping my fish alive is too many things for me to deal with at once. I removed the rough pebble substrate and changed it to sand and added another Cory. They seem VERY happy. I will post a picture later. I will keep an eye on Ich coming back for a while before I add more fish. My daughter is very happy with her busy little catfish. The Corys are very happy with their sand.
Ammonia, nitrates, nitrates all 0. PH is 7.5. I have 2 fine air bubble stones running.
Ammonia, nitrates, nitrates all 0. PH is 7.5. I have 2 fine air bubble stones running.
ShinySideUp
Fish Herder
Keep an eye on the ich. Don't add any fish for three weeks (ok, you've added one but so far so good). The ich might well still be lurking in the tank somewhere if you haven't used meds so don't get complacent and think it's all over; it might not be.
When you do add some more fish, add cory's; they like to be in groups of, say, six (or more, I have eight) and are much happier that way. Pleased about the sand, so many fish like sand as a substrate -- cory's, BN catfish, Clown loaches (all loaches really) and anything with barbels --except pictus pimolodious catfish who couldn't give a monkeys about substrate so long as there are fish to eat!
When you do add some more fish, add cory's; they like to be in groups of, say, six (or more, I have eight) and are much happier that way. Pleased about the sand, so many fish like sand as a substrate -- cory's, BN catfish, Clown loaches (all loaches really) and anything with barbels --except pictus pimolodious catfish who couldn't give a monkeys about substrate so long as there are fish to eat!
Similar threads
Most reactions
-
293 -
223 -
201 -
179 -
173 -
150 -
142 -
140 -
131 -
91 -
88 -
86 -
82 -
77 -
64