New To Saltwater

[RopefishManiac]

I don't have a tank set up or anything yet. I know very well about the set up about the tank but I just can't seem to find a good compatibility list for fish.

Fish:
Midas Blenny, 2 Scooter Blennies (mated pair, I would guess), Falco Hawkfish, Red Spotted Hawkfish, Dwarf Lion, Yellow Headed Sleeper Goby (or Dragon Goby not sure which one I want yet), Psychadelic Mandarin, Feathered Dragonet, Cleaner Wrasse, Dragon Wrasse(probably not but I'm still curious), and a small Snowflake Eel

Invertabrates: Emerald Crabs, Mexican Turbo Snails

These fish aren't in a tank or anything. It's just a list that I'd like to get and I want to know if they're all compatible.

 

[SkiFletch]

Ummm, ok some thoughts:

Midas Blenny; God with most additions, may nip decorative Tridacnid Clams

2 Scooter Blennies (mated pair, I would guess); Finding a mated pair is going to be exceptionally difficult. More difficult will be finding a mated pair where both will eat frozen foods. Scooters are notorious for not accepting frozen fare.

Falco Hawkfish; I've never kept one but I've read of aggression issues towards other fish in the tank, especially if its under 50 gallons

Red Spotted Hawkfish; Same as above just not as bad

Dwarf Lion; Will eat all other fish in this list except the Snowflake Eel

Yellow Headed Sleeper Goby; Not sure on which fish you mean here, the common name doesn't ring a bell

Dragon Goby; See above

Psychadelic Mandarin; Even harder to get to accept frozen foods than Scooter Blennies. As a result their captive survival rate is very poor and I'll never reccomend one for a tank smaller than 75g

Feathered Dragonet; See above

Cleaner Wrasse; Which type? Some cleaners also have the same problems as Mandarins, and others eat corals. Again, not good for small-moderate tanks

Dragon Wrasse(probably not but I'm still curious); Not, I repeat, Not compatible with snails/crabs/shrimp/worms/many inverts. Will toss small rock rubble around the tank (literally) to look for food (aforementioned inverts) below it. Fantastic fish to watch, but really only suited to FO setups.

Small Snowflake Eel; One of the smaller and more reef-safe of eels. Great for a reef setup, and may munch on smaller gobies.

Thats a quick rundown there, sorry to be the bringer of so much bad news

 

[Lynden]

I do not completely agree.

Falco Hawkfish; I've never kept one but I've read of aggression issues towards other fish in the tank, especially if its under 50 gallons

Red Spotted Hawkfish; Same as above just not as bad

I've kept a falco in a tank where he was the largest fish, and he never attacked them. I've also kept a similar (can't recall the real name; looks like an anthias) species and the arc-eye, and never did any one of them touch the other fish. N3on T3tra also keeps a pair with some small, weak fish. This could still be in the exception stage, but my opinion is that most hawks aren't as aggressive or predatory as they are often portrayed to be.

Dwarf Lion; Will eat all other fish in this list except the Snowflake Eel

Actually these fish can be kept, usually, with anything past half it's length (if well fed; it would be safest to keep them with things longer than them). It probably will eat the mythrax crabs, however.

Yellow Headed Sleeper Goby; Not sure on which fish you mean here, the common name doesn't ring a bell

Sleeper gobies tend to be sand sifters; this one is. They can be kept, but I would recommend a refugium or established sand bed.

Dragon Goby; See above

Gobioides broussonetti (the species usually sold in the US and Canada) can be acclimated to marine water. The are generally hardy, but are filter feeders. Some feed, some don't. The one I kept in FW ate flakes but the one I kept in SW didn't eat much, only 'pods. Make sure it is eating at the store before you buy.

Cleaner Wrasse; Which type? Some cleaners also have the same problems as Mandarins, and others eat corals. Again, not good for small-moderate tanks

A pet store near me just got a huge order of these in, and it appears that most were feeding. Normally I would frown on a pet store ordering so many cleaner wrasses, but at least they were healthy.

Labroides dimidiatus, the most common species, does tend to eat in captivity. I've had three and two of those fed readily on frozen foods, the other did at first but then hid away and died. Mainly, make sure they eat at the store, and if they do, they make a great fish and can be kept in tanks of at least 20 gallons in my opinion.

Dragon Wrasse(probably not but I'm still curious); Not, I repeat, Not compatible with snails/crabs/shrimp/worms/many inverts. Will toss small rock rubble around the tank (literally) to look for food (aforementioned inverts) below it. Fantastic fish to watch, but really only suited to FO setups.

The juveniles tend to be docile, but, the adults are highly predatory. They may flip sand-living corals but otherwise can be kept with corals.

Small Snowflake Eel; One of the smaller and more reef-safe of eels. Great for a reef setup, and may munch on smaller gobies.

Almost never eat fish, will likely eat the mythrax crabs.

 

[SkiFletch]

Hehe, thought you wouldn't . You do know your fish better than I though

 

[RopefishManiac]

I've kept a falco in a tank where he was the largest fish, and he never attacked them. I've also kept a similar (can't recall the real name; looks like an anthias) species and the arc-eye, and never did any one of them touch the other fish. N3on T3tra also keeps a pair with some small, weak fish. This could still be in the exception stage, but my opinion is that most hawks aren't as aggressive or predatory as they are often portrayed to be.

Can the Falco be kept with the Red Spotted Hawk? I've read that they aggressive towards their own species but it never said whether it was other hawks or just the other Falco hawks.

Dwarf Lion: Actually these fish can be kept, usually, with anything past half it's length (if well fed; it would be safest to keep them with things longer than them). It probably will eat the mythrax crabs, however.

The mythrax crabs meaning the emerald crabs? Is there anything else that's compatible with these fish that eats algae and/or is a scavenger?

Sleeper gobies tend to be sand sifters; this one is. They can be kept, but I would recommend a refugium or established sand bed.

That's what I was looking for, a sand sifter. So I was going to have a "live" sand substrate anyway. I've just heard that these aren't the hardiest fish that's why I was looking at the Dragon Goby's as well since they do the same exact job but it will actually stay alive.

I think these are called Golden Headed Sleeper Gobies or Blue Streak Gobies as well. I think that's where the confusion came from before.

Dragon Goby: Gobioides broussonetti (the species usually sold in the US and Canada) can be acclimated to marine water. The are generally hardy, but are filter feeders. Some feed, some don't. The one I kept in FW ate flakes but the one I kept in SW didn't eat much, only 'pods. Make sure it is eating at the store before you buy.

What do I do for a filter feeder? Will he take mysis/brine shrimp?
These are freshwater fish too? How are they both?

Cleaner Wrasse;A pet store near me just got a huge order of these in, and it appears that most were feeding. Normally I would frown on a pet store ordering so many cleaner wrasses, but at least they were healthy.

Labroides dimidiatus, the most common species, does tend to eat in captivity. I've had three and two of those fed readily on frozen foods, the other did at first but then hid away and died. Mainly, make sure they eat at the store, and if they do, they make a great fish and can be kept in tanks of at least 20 gallons in my opinion.

I was looking at these fish online. A few sites told me they've been deemed very unlikely to survive in captivity. It's because of malnutrition. Since they eat parasites they can die if there's no parasites in your water. Would the eating test still work if I got one? I've heard they also eat mysis/brine shrimp too.

The juveniles tend to be docile, but, the adults are highly predatory. They may flip sand-living corals but otherwise can be kept with corals.

Will the juveniles eat crabs and snails?
Would the flipping of the rocks hurt/damage my tank or other fish? How heavy are the rocks that they can lift?

Small Snowflake Eel; Almost never eat fish, will likely eat the mythrax crabs.

Again mythrax being emerald crabs?


A few follow-up questions:

Nothing in this list eats Mexican Turbo Snails right?

About the Mandirins and Scooter Blennies: I know they both take frozen mysis shrimp though. My cousin has a huge reef set-up with both fish and they've lasted forever. So is it luck? Or do you have to entice them to eat frozen foods?
Oh and I wasn't really looking for a mated pair of Blennies, I just know they'd get along better so I'd prefer that.

Does anyone know about Feathered Dragonets? Can they be with Psychadelics?


Thanks to everyone who's helping me.

 

[chrissaysyes]

Agree with lynden on the falco as Ive kept one before. And I dont see why you couldnt keep a falco and red spotted if the tank is large enough. Also I would advise against a cleaner wrasse...there are a lot of negative things being said about their health in captivity but it is also pretty detrimental to deprive nature of these VERY IMPORTANT fish. Kind of like if fish kept pet humans and they decided to take all of our doctors.

 

[SkiFletch]

Wel, Turbo Snail is a moniker given to a few different species of snails. Some are very reef compatible, others are actually colder water snails and do poorly in the reef aquarium, especially during summer months. Some are not even turbo snails but in fact Astrea snails . Real Turbo snails are big, and really good at eating algae. They do have the propensity to "bulldoze" frags that are not properly secured. Their predators are larger hermit crab species, and invert-hungry fish. Otherwise they're pretty good cleanup crew members.

 

[RopefishManiac]

Wel, Turbo Snail is a moniker given to a few different species of snails. Some are very reef compatible, others are actually colder water snails and do poorly in the reef aquarium, especially during summer months. Some are not even turbo snails but in fact Astrea snails . Real Turbo snails are big, and really good at eating algae. They do have the propensity to "bulldoze" frags that are not properly secured. Their predators are larger hermit crab species, and invert-hungry fish. Otherwise they're pretty good cleanup crew members.

Hmm. Ok I just wanted to make sure they wouldn't get eaten by anything on here. I know snails are a very tasty snack to almost all fish (except reef safe of course).

 

[SkiFletch]

I'd prolly only be worried about an adult dragon wrasse with them. Not sure about the Dwarf Lion though... Maybe? Again, preds are not my strongsuit

 

[Tommy Gun]

Uh oh Lynden....I am back!!!! Just kidding bud - how's it going?

Here is what I know from experience and from others (sorry if I am repeating anything....only doing so because I agree )

Again mythrax being emerald crabs?

An emerald crab's true common name is the "Emerald Mythrax Crab" in most circles. These crabs are omnivores and opportunistic eaters --- meaning you need to make sure they have enough algae to eat or they could harm corals and possibly some beneficial hitchhikers (usually not a problem, but I know a couple people who just figured that out the hard way)

Will the juveniles eat crabs and snails?

My understanding is that the hermit crab/snail threat is if they do not have anything else to eat OR do not have a larger shell to move into when they need it....so small hermits can become problematic too. Otherwise I do agree, larger hermit crabs are probably best off in a snail-less tank or in someone else's tank (I am still trying to catch some of the 50 hermits I bought when I first started....and can only keep small snails alive right now)

I was looking at these fish online. A few sites told me they've been deemed very unlikely to survive in captivity. It's because of malnutrition. Since they eat parasites they can die if there's no parasites in your water. Would the eating test still work if I got one? I've heard they also eat mysis/brine shrimp too.

I think that tide is starting to shift a little bit nowadays - it is getting easier to find cleaner wrasses that will eat prepared foods, but the ethical debate is starting to focus on the fact that they are needed in nature and without them other fish populations begin to suffer. Case in point:


Yea...double standard on my part. I have had two of them for about three/four months now and they are still cleaning my fish and eating mysis shrimp. In my defense, at the time of purchase I thought I had to buy them because they ate prepared foods...without knowing that I was still wrong to do so.

Dwarf Lion: Actually these fish can be kept, usually, with anything past half it's length (if well fed; it would be safest to keep them with things longer than them). It probably will eat the mythrax crabs, however.

I don't really disagree with this per say, but two things: 1) It probably depends on the type of dwarf lion you are looking at and 2) Finding one that eats prepared foods will be less likely to eat an emerald mythrax crab (I will stick to emerald crab...less typing) or other live fish

For example, the Fu Manchu lionfish (I believe the smallest of the bunch...or close to it) probably doesn't pose a threat to any fish larger than two inches and probably couldn't inhale most any emerald crab I have ever seen in an LFS so far. And I do have one right now in my tank that holds 6 emerald crabs. I also have a fuzzy dwarf lion who hasn't eaten any live fish or emerald crabs yet. Like I said though....I don't disagree with the fact that the threat exists, only trying to point out how to reduce that threat. Here is my fuzzy dwarf eating mysis shrimp - my Fu Manchu is highly nocturnal so I haven't gotten a vid of it eating yet (not one that is good anyways)

(He is quick so watch carefully)

About the Mandirins and Scooter Blennies: I know they both take frozen mysis shrimp though. My cousin has a huge reef set-up with both fish and they've lasted forever. So is it luck? Or do you have to entice them to eat frozen foods?

I agree with the fact that they will eat frozen foods....all of mine have. I know that a lot of people have been having some decent success with breeding mandarins (not sure about the scooter blenny though) so if you can get a hold of a tank raised version, you probably would have some better odds at keeping them long term. However, your cousin probably has more than luck on his/her side - namely the "huge reef" that is probably teeming with copepods (which is why Ski probably mentioned the 75 gallon minimum like he did). Here is proof that they will eat for the many naysayers out there...

Almost never eat fish, will likely eat the mythrax crabs.

Of course, I have to disagree with something Lynden says or I wouldn't be Tommy Gun...I had a snowflake eel who refused to eat anything but live feeder fish for the longest time, but I was pretty successful with garlic-laced krill. Anyways, I realize that Lynden is right for the most part, but the overwhelming theme here is that you are probably much better off taking each fish/eel you find in the LFS on a case by case basis. For example, if you just buy a cleaner wrasse it might not eat prepared food and die in a couple weeks, but if you buy one after the LFS shows you it will eat, your odds increase. Same thing with the eels....they definitely have the ability to eat fish, and live ones to boot - which is a silly thing to do for most of these people, but any LFS employee could be just as silly (not my vids):

<a href="http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtH35aXxZkc" target="_blank">http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtH35aXxZkc</a>

<a href="http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkO9lLE5rBs&feature=related" target="_blank">http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkO9lLE5rBs...feature=related
</a>
<a href="http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DgbMBEfwCQ&feature=related" target="_blank">http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DgbMBEfwCQ...feature=related</a>
(Lynden! A trigger eating live fish? I never even heard of that one (honestly)....is it normal?)

=============================

The mythrax crabs meaning the emerald crabs? Is there anything else that's compatible with these fish that eats algae and/or is a scavenger?

Just thought of something....urchins! I just picked up a long spine urchin the other day (because my snail population is shrinking daily) after reading about them being fantastic for algae in pred tanks that wouldn't allow for other clean up crew members. They are venomous as well I guess....but so are the lions and you probably wouldn't want to get bit by a snowflake eel either so I think an urchin would be the least of your worries. Anyways, just an idea.

 

[RopefishManiac]

Wow. Thanks Tommy Gun. So pretty much everything is compatible but there are a few chances? I know the lionfish won't eat anything. I'm not sure what it is but my cousin has one in a reef tank with tons of small fish. SO he'll be ok.

I might get urchins then I guess. I just don't like them but it shouldn't be too bad. I'll see how the snails hold up and if they don't make it, I'll get urchins. No big deal.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[RopefishManiac]

Agree with lynden on the falco as Ive kept one before. And I dont see why you couldnt keep a falco and red spotted if the tank is large enough. Also I would advise against a cleaner wrasse...there are a lot of negative things being said about their health in captivity but it is also pretty detrimental to deprive nature of these VERY IMPORTANT fish.

How big is big enough for the Falco and Red Spotted Hawks?


Would the Cleaner Wrasse's negative health effects affect the other inhabitants of my tank? Like an illness? Or just like something like malnutrition that wouldn't do anything to my fish at all? If it's just malnutrition I'd probably still get one. This may be the wrong way to think but hey if they're already in the LFS I might as well take a chance. He isn't going back in the ocean anyway. (Although I wish they would stay in the ocean)

 

[Lynden]

That just blows my mind: Tommy Gun saying that something is more reef-safe than I thought it was. Good to have you back.

Muraenids tend to be highly variable in feeding habits. I keep piscivorous morays with fish and shrimp and they don't touch them. The difference seems to stem from what the morays were fed. If they are fed only dead foods, they are much less likely to eat living animals.

Edit. Much less likely, not more likely.

 

[Tommy Gun]

That just blows my mind: Tommy Gun saying that something is more reef-safe than I thought it was.

Oh geeze....maybe I should take that back, huh?

If they are fed only dead foods, they are much more likely to eat living animals.

Well said....that is what I was trying to say. This would hold true for most any preditor type fish. I had a porcupine puffer that would eat nothing but live foods and would also eat any small fish I subsequently tried adding, but I have a different one now that only eats krill and let me add a cleaner shrimp and a coral banded shrimp without ever taking a second look at them.

Would the Cleaner Wrasse's negative health effects affect the other inhabitants of my tank? Like an illness? Or just like something like malnutrition that wouldn't do anything to my fish at all? If it's just malnutrition I'd probably still get one. This may be the wrong way to think but hey if they're already in the LFS I might as well take a chance. He isn't going back in the ocean anyway.

As far as I know...and I think that Ropefishmaniac also means...the health effects of the cleaner wrasse in captivity are both its common refusal to eat and the fact that they are then not in the ocean to help the fish. Hopefully I made it clear that I agree iwth the notion that they should be left in the oceans and didn't really consider that when I bought the two I have right now but I am also cannot really ship them back to the ocean and I'm not going to get rid of them - certainly not going to kill them - becuase of a stigma (although I don't really advertise the fact that I have them very often) because that doesn't solve much...but I wouldn't buy them anymore.

In reality, you probably aren't all that much more 'armed' in the fight against marine ich by having a cleaner wrasse (or two) anyways, so it isn't like you have to have or or havingone is going to solve/prevent all problems....so if you are in agreement with some of the thoughts expressed here, you probably should skip them.

 

[RopefishManiac]

If they are fed only dead foods, they are much more likely to eat living animals.

Well said....that is what I was trying to say. This would hold true for most any preditor type fish. I had a porcupine puffer that would eat nothing but live foods and would also eat any small fish I subsequently tried adding, but I have a different one now that only eats krill and let me add a cleaner shrimp and a coral banded shrimp without ever taking a second look at them.

Would the Cleaner Wrasse's negative health effects affect the other inhabitants of my tank? Like an illness? Or just like something like malnutrition that wouldn't do anything to my fish at all? If it's just malnutrition I'd probably still get one. This may be the wrong way to think but hey if they're already in the LFS I might as well take a chance. He isn't going back in the ocean anyway.

As far as I know...and I think that Ropefishmaniac also means...the health effects of the cleaner wrasse in captivity are both its common refusal to eat and the fact that they are then not in the ocean to help the fish. Hopefully I made it clear that I agree iwth the notion that they should be left in the oceans and didn't really consider that when I bought the two I have right now but I am also cannot really ship them back to the ocean and I'm not going to get rid of them - certainly not going to kill them - becuase of a stigma (although I don't really advertise the fact that I have them very often) because that doesn't solve much...but I wouldn't buy them anymore.

In reality, you probably aren't all that much more 'armed' in the fight against marine ich by having a cleaner wrasse (or two) anyways, so it isn't like you have to have or or havingone is going to solve/prevent all problems....so if you are in agreement with some of the thoughts expressed here, you probably should skip them.

Well, I was going to give my fish a varied diet anyway, especially the Snowflake Eel and I'm thinking of getting a Puffer, but again I need to watch what he eats. So, I really don't think it will become problematic.


About the Cleaner Wrasse, I meant other health effects as in maybe ich or some kind of other disease tht the cleaner could get. If you get what I'm saying. I was just curious if the Cleaner Wrasse was more susceptible to diseases that could effect my other fish. As of now though, I decided not to get one. My LFS told me the same stuff. I don't really need one and they should stay in the ocean anyway. I'm thinking of getting a Neon Goby now though. I was told they eat the parasites too but they'll take actual food as well. Plus they are hardier.