Chac
I only have a goldfish in a tank (& it cant drive)
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
- Messages
- 1,515
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Please listen to the advice given - we give it free & with only good intentions - the people who have adviced you so far know what they are talking about and arnt trying to do the hard seal on you - everyone on this board wants to create the best possible lifestyle for the livestock they keep and as you can read for the messages posted you are going to fast & ignoring advice from seassioned reef keepers
We are not saying that Live Rock is the only way as it isnt but to relly on LIVE Sand as a Biological Filtration is in my & other opinion at best silly at worst neglegant
If you do not agree with our methods then OK but reasearch the various methods that are available to you and IMO if you conduct a poll on any serious MARINE Forum similar to this you will find that todays REEF KEEPERS beleive that the key to a sucussful reef/FO is a LIVE ROCK & SKIMMER combo
There are still LFS & private reefers who use UNDERGRAVEL SYSTEMS which IMO is unbeleivable but they swear by them but why use something when it has been imporved upon some years ago.
You will need some form of Decor/rocks in your tank so why not use the optimum type (LIVE ROCK) which will great looking & interesting peice of decor & give you fish refuge & take care of you BIO Filtration Needs
I also find it strange that you LFS adviced you against LR as it causes ich - it is laughable - not you that is, but your LFS - if this is the type of advice he gives I would give him a wide berth
If your not getting Live Rock is a cost issue then I would say to stear clear of marine keeping as it is just one cost after another to be honest
Finally - if you do go for a external filter, livesnad etc. your fish may survive (Hardy ones anyway) but will they be happy & healthy or is this not important
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Description of LIVE ROCK
Live, or living rock (LR) is basically parts of the coral reef that have been broken off during storms etc. It has laid on the sea bed for weeks, months or even years and during that time, it has been colonised with litterally millions of animals ranging from microscopic bacteria to larger copepods and amphipods to even larger shrimps, crabs, lobsters etc.
LR is very porous and lightweight. This allows many of the small animals (critters) to colonise deep into the rock and remain free from predation.
Once LR is collected, it is shipped by air in a moist state in sealed bags or boxes (if it were shipped wet, the cost would rocket because of the weight). During the shipping process, many of the higher life forms die off due to lack of water. However, the little pores remain wet and the smaller life forms survive the journey.
Once it reaches the dealer, it has to then be cured. This is a very costly and long process which involves putting the LR in large vats of saltwater and running large protein skimmers. The reason for this is that a lot of the dead critters start to rot and if placed directly into your tank, will cause unacceptable ammonia levels and probably kill most of your tank inhabitants.
The LR is scrubbed and new saltwater added regularly. This whole curing process can take a month.
The LR is then placed into large vats of mature saltwater where it is now ready for sale (at a cost of around £200 for 20KG's)
Once the rock is placed into your tank, the fun then starts. Within a few weeks, many life forms that had remained dormant, start to grow. This can include small corals, decorative algea, polyps and mushrooms. Even after years of it being in the tank, new things can still spring up.
Many reef keepers use LR as filtration. The tiny pores that contain the bacteria are a superb way of filtering the reef. They contain both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria which reduces nitrites and nitrates respectively.. However good water flow around the rock is essential to keep the bacteria fed.
Among the beaties that are found on the rock, there are also some that are not so welcome. Some large, destructive crabs, shrimps and lobsters etc can be imported as tiny specimens and survive the journey. Being nocturnal, the first time you know you've got them is when you see your prize coral being munched away or your lovely colony of Neon Gobies slowly disappearing one by one. This is a rare occurance though and should not put anyone off. It has even been known for a fertilised moray eel egg to be imported and hatch in the tank !!!.
LR is imported from all over the tropical world but rock from Fiji is usually the lightest and best although rock from the Caribbean is also good. People are starting to now create LR nurseries, where porous rocks are being put into the sea and left to colonise for a year or two. This ensures that our reefs are not exploited for the aquarium trade and also ensures we will have a never ending supply of LR.
It still amazes me the amount of life that comes from the rocks and continues to grow, multiply and increase the bio-diversity of the reef tank.
Other porous rock such as tufa and homemade rocks will quickly become "live" if added to a tank full of existing LR as the bacteria and critters will soon colonize that too.
We are not saying that Live Rock is the only way as it isnt but to relly on LIVE Sand as a Biological Filtration is in my & other opinion at best silly at worst neglegant
If you do not agree with our methods then OK but reasearch the various methods that are available to you and IMO if you conduct a poll on any serious MARINE Forum similar to this you will find that todays REEF KEEPERS beleive that the key to a sucussful reef/FO is a LIVE ROCK & SKIMMER combo
There are still LFS & private reefers who use UNDERGRAVEL SYSTEMS which IMO is unbeleivable but they swear by them but why use something when it has been imporved upon some years ago.
You will need some form of Decor/rocks in your tank so why not use the optimum type (LIVE ROCK) which will great looking & interesting peice of decor & give you fish refuge & take care of you BIO Filtration Needs
I also find it strange that you LFS adviced you against LR as it causes ich - it is laughable - not you that is, but your LFS - if this is the type of advice he gives I would give him a wide berth
If your not getting Live Rock is a cost issue then I would say to stear clear of marine keeping as it is just one cost after another to be honest
Finally - if you do go for a external filter, livesnad etc. your fish may survive (Hardy ones anyway) but will they be happy & healthy or is this not important
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Description of LIVE ROCK
Live, or living rock (LR) is basically parts of the coral reef that have been broken off during storms etc. It has laid on the sea bed for weeks, months or even years and during that time, it has been colonised with litterally millions of animals ranging from microscopic bacteria to larger copepods and amphipods to even larger shrimps, crabs, lobsters etc.
LR is very porous and lightweight. This allows many of the small animals (critters) to colonise deep into the rock and remain free from predation.
Once LR is collected, it is shipped by air in a moist state in sealed bags or boxes (if it were shipped wet, the cost would rocket because of the weight). During the shipping process, many of the higher life forms die off due to lack of water. However, the little pores remain wet and the smaller life forms survive the journey.
Once it reaches the dealer, it has to then be cured. This is a very costly and long process which involves putting the LR in large vats of saltwater and running large protein skimmers. The reason for this is that a lot of the dead critters start to rot and if placed directly into your tank, will cause unacceptable ammonia levels and probably kill most of your tank inhabitants.
The LR is scrubbed and new saltwater added regularly. This whole curing process can take a month.
The LR is then placed into large vats of mature saltwater where it is now ready for sale (at a cost of around £200 for 20KG's)
Once the rock is placed into your tank, the fun then starts. Within a few weeks, many life forms that had remained dormant, start to grow. This can include small corals, decorative algea, polyps and mushrooms. Even after years of it being in the tank, new things can still spring up.
Many reef keepers use LR as filtration. The tiny pores that contain the bacteria are a superb way of filtering the reef. They contain both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria which reduces nitrites and nitrates respectively.. However good water flow around the rock is essential to keep the bacteria fed.
Among the beaties that are found on the rock, there are also some that are not so welcome. Some large, destructive crabs, shrimps and lobsters etc can be imported as tiny specimens and survive the journey. Being nocturnal, the first time you know you've got them is when you see your prize coral being munched away or your lovely colony of Neon Gobies slowly disappearing one by one. This is a rare occurance though and should not put anyone off. It has even been known for a fertilised moray eel egg to be imported and hatch in the tank !!!.
LR is imported from all over the tropical world but rock from Fiji is usually the lightest and best although rock from the Caribbean is also good. People are starting to now create LR nurseries, where porous rocks are being put into the sea and left to colonise for a year or two. This ensures that our reefs are not exploited for the aquarium trade and also ensures we will have a never ending supply of LR.
It still amazes me the amount of life that comes from the rocks and continues to grow, multiply and increase the bio-diversity of the reef tank.
Other porous rock such as tufa and homemade rocks will quickly become "live" if added to a tank full of existing LR as the bacteria and critters will soon colonize that too.
)... I do have rocks i beleive they were probably once live rock at a time but now they are just rocks?? i dont know... they are just for saltwater though... Also i am not pushing off the live rock because it is too expensive, if i thought i truefully needed it or if my boss told me i did, i would have it. I dont know if other lfs owners are stupid in the fish section, but my boss knows alot about them and if he didnt how would he be keeping these beautifal marine setups and freshwater setups. Thanks for all the advice, i really do appreciate it.
