New To Cichlids - Any Help Would Be Much Appreciated!

[jonchall]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum as well as South American Cichlids (or any Cichlids for that matter) and have a few questions.

First, my current situation:
I have had about 10 different freshwater aquariums before, but this is my first in about 15 years so I am a little rusty. My story begins with my wife and me walking into Petco to buy a water dish for our dogs and me saying "Oooohhh, look at the fish tanks!" From there, my wife began looking at the fish, and soon after, it was a done deal. We purchased a 50 gallon (48"W X 12.5"D X 18.75"H) tank, and against every fiber of my being, I let my wife choose the decor--a half of a sunken pirate ship, a lava rock with a hole on it (think donut), and many colorful plastic plants. I bought the tank on Saturday (4 days ago), and by that evening had it set up, filled with water, heater running, pumps going (I bought two Whisper EX45's [240 GPM each]), and had Stress Coat and Stress Zyme added. I checked PH and ammonia the next morning (7.0 PH and .5 ppm ammonia). That evening, the PH was 7.2 and ammonia was .25 (Sunday, 3 days ago). Monday morning, I decided to ditch the Stress Zyme treatment in favor of SeaChem Stability (I read good things about it in several forums) and have kept up with the instructed doses.

My original intention was to set up a community tank of Danios, Barbs, Tetras, etc, and one centerpiece fish (perhaps a single Angel or the likes). Well, after looking at her choices, my wife decided that she did not care too much for any of my choices and fell in love with a Blood Parrot because he (or she) kept smiling at her. Our end result was two Blood Parrots (about 3") and two Green Terrors (about 1.5"). They went into the tank on Monday afternoon (about 36 hours ago) and have done very well since. All four are actively swimming around and feeding (I am being very cautious with feedings), and only one of the Blood Parrots seems to be a bit aggressive and only to the other Blood Parrot--the Green Terrors mind their own business. Ammonia never went above .25 after the initial .5, last night it was about .125, and this morning it is reading 0.0--nitrites also reading 0.0 presently. I also did a nitrate reading after the 0.0 nitrite reading, but it is at 0.0 as I suspected it would be. PH has held steady at 7.2. Temperature is 78-80F.

Now, my questions:
1) Did I make a mistake by pairing these fish? I did not do so for them to mate (I'm not even sure of their sexes), but rather for companionship.

2) Is my tank big enough to support this amount of fish? I know it is at the moment, but they are juvies. I have read ALL SORTS of conflicting information on this. Ideally, I would like to have one other compatible Cichlid in there with them. Should I consider returning one Blood Parrot and one Green Terror, and adding one other Cichlid?
*As a side note to this question, I'm not really concerned with just having my fish survive--I want them to thrive. I consider them to be like any other pet and I would not buy a dog and chain him to a tree outside--yes, he would survive, but he wouldn't be happy. I want my fish to be as happy and stress free as possible.

3) I am planning to move my tank to another part of my apartment for several reasons. It now sits atop my entertainment center which is rather sturdy (all wood--weighs about 400 pounds), but I would feel more at ease with it on a stand. I am also planning to purchase another tank--perhaps a 45 gallon, for a community such as the one I mentioned before. Since purchasing these Cichlids, I have read that they prefer a sand substrate (I have gravel now), so I was going to move that gaudy pirate ship into the community tank (to give the Cichlids more room) along with the gravel and some of the plastic plants--my wife bought enough for two tanks. I was going to purchase some 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot to hold a good portion of their current water during the move, bag the fish and float them in the other tank (set at same temp) while I moved their tank, refill the tank with the saved water, then put in the sand. Alternately, I could divide the fish into the buckets with airstones during the move, but I would be a bit concerned with the temp. Is it best to add the sand slowly after the water, or best to add the sand, and then divert the water to not stir the sand up much? Additionally, should I raise the intake tubes of my filters to about midway up the tank to help keep them free of sand? Right now, they are about 1" above the gravel. I've never worked with sand before if you can't tell. I think I can make this move without stressing the fish too much, but I welcome any advice anyone may have.

**EDIT**
4) I forgot to ask if my readings seem good (PH [7.2] and temperature [78-80] wise). From all I've read, they are right on track for these two species. I will continue my cycling monitoring.
**END EDIT**

Sorry for the long post, but I've read so much conflicting info in the past few days that I thought it would be best to get opinions from people who are passionate about this. I am, myself, quite passionate about this, but have a bit to learn!

Thanks in advance for any advice or opinions you may have!

Jon

 

[Bebobb]

I think that two green terrors is too much for that tank. They arre HIGHLY territorial. They don't mix well with other kindds of fish. You should have researched the fish before you bought them. Your choice was WAY better. Blood parrots are hybrids and the "smiling" was from them not being able to close their mouth entirely. I would rehome the cichlids and if you want cichlids, read up on them. I prefer dwarf cichlids myself because of their size and personality. and not to mention that they get along well with most community aquariums. I know that if you want to house green terror with other fish, that they must be bigger. They get to around 8 inches adult. And if you other green terror is a male, all may look well in their juvenile stage, but when they grow up, they might fight to death. One green terror is suitable for a 50 gallon aquarium.

Now on to the blood parrots. They are not equiped to fight for foor and territory like the green terror is. Meaning that when they get older, the blood parrot will most likely fight and die in competition with the green terror. I would keep the parrot that seems to get beat up on, and go with you idea of a community. That would be great. It would make you, and your wife happy. But make sure not to get fish that could fit in their mouth, because they can, and will, eat them. They go well with mid sized tetras 2.5-3in as far as I know.

So my final advice would be to rehome all the fish except for the parrot that seems to get harassed by the other, and add peaceful community fish. Oh, and you can't forget, add some dwarf cichlids. They pwn.

 

[minxfishy]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum as well as South American Cichlids (or any Cichlids for that matter) and have a few questions.

First, my current situation:
I have had about 10 different freshwater aquariums before, but this is my first in about 15 years so I am a little rusty. My story begins with my wife and me walking into Petco to buy a water dish for our dogs and me saying "Oooohhh, look at the fish tanks!" From there, my wife began looking at the fish, and soon after, it was a done deal. We purchased a 50 gallon (48"W X 12.5"D X 18.75"H) tank, and against every fiber of my being, I let my wife choose the decor--a half of a sunken pirate ship, a lava rock with a hole on it (think donut), and many colorful plastic plants. I bought the tank on Saturday (4 days ago), and by that evening had it set up, filled with water, heater running, pumps going (I bought two Whisper EX45's [240 GPM each]), and had Stress Coat and Stress Zyme added. I checked PH and ammonia the next morning (7.0 PH and .5 ppm ammonia). That evening, the PH was 7.2 and ammonia was .25 (Sunday, 3 days ago). Monday morning, I decided to ditch the Stress Zyme treatment in favor of SeaChem Stability (I read good things about it in several forums) and have kept up with the instructed doses.

My original intention was to set up a community tank of Danios, Barbs, Tetras, etc, and one centerpiece fish (perhaps a single Angel or the likes). Well, after looking at her choices, my wife decided that she did not care too much for any of my choices and fell in love with a Blood Parrot because he (or she) kept smiling at her. Our end result was two Blood Parrots (about 3") and two Green Terrors (about 1.5"). They went into the tank on Monday afternoon (about 36 hours ago) and have done very well since. All four are actively swimming around and feeding (I am being very cautious with feedings), and only one of the Blood Parrots seems to be a bit aggressive and only to the other Blood Parrot--the Green Terrors mind their own business. Ammonia never went above .25 after the initial .5, last night it was about .125, and this morning it is reading 0.0--nitrites also reading 0.0 presently. I also did a nitrate reading after the 0.0 nitrite reading, but it is at 0.0 as I suspected it would be. PH has held steady at 7.2. Temperature is 78-80F.

Now, my questions:
1) Did I make a mistake by pairing these fish? I did not do so for them to mate (I'm not even sure of their sexes), but rather for companionship.

2) Is my tank big enough to support this amount of fish? I know it is at the moment, but they are juvies. I have read ALL SORTS of conflicting information on this. Ideally, I would like to have one other compatible Cichlid in there with them. Should I consider returning one Blood Parrot and one Green Terror, and adding one other Cichlid?
*As a side note to this question, I'm not really concerned with just having my fish survive--I want them to thrive. I consider them to be like any other pet and I would not buy a dog and chain him to a tree outside--yes, he would survive, but he wouldn't be happy. I want my fish to be as happy and stress free as possible.

3) I am planning to move my tank to another part of my apartment for several reasons. It now sits atop my entertainment center which is rather sturdy (all wood--weighs about 400 pounds), but I would feel more at ease with it on a stand. I am also planning to purchase another tank--perhaps a 45 gallon, for a community such as the one I mentioned before. Since purchasing these Cichlids, I have read that they prefer a sand substrate (I have gravel now), so I was going to move that gaudy pirate ship into the community tank (to give the Cichlids more room) along with the gravel and some of the plastic plants--my wife bought enough for two tanks. I was going to purchase some 5 gallon buckets from Home Depot to hold a good portion of their current water during the move, bag the fish and float them in the other tank (set at same temp) while I moved their tank, refill the tank with the saved water, then put in the sand. Alternately, I could divide the fish into the buckets with airstones during the move, but I would be a bit concerned with the temp. Is it best to add the sand slowly after the water, or best to add the sand, and then divert the water to not stir the sand up much? Additionally, should I raise the intake tubes of my filters to about midway up the tank to help keep them free of sand? Right now, they are about 1" above the gravel. I've never worked with sand before if you can't tell. I think I can make this move without stressing the fish too much, but I welcome any advice anyone may have.

**EDIT**
4) I forgot to ask if my readings seem good (PH [7.2] and temperature [78-80] wise). From all I've read, they are right on track for these two species. I will continue my cycling monitoring.
**END EDIT**

Sorry for the long post, but I've read so much conflicting info in the past few days that I thought it would be best to get opinions from people who are passionate about this. I am, myself, quite passionate about this, but have a bit to learn!

Thanks in advance for any advice or opinions you may have!

Jon

Hi and welcome back to fish keeping and to the forum

Where do I start, bear with me, its unbearably hot here and my brain is fried, but....

Firstly, the tank is not cycled, I know you have added some stuff, but they dont tend to do very much, whilst your figures look good at the moment, be prepared for a large ammonia and nitrIte spike, these days people recommend (and many do) whats known as a fishless cycle, please take a look thru the link in my signature (in red) which would explain this way of cycling.

So you are doing a fish in cycle (link in green in signature) which is going to require a good liquid based test kit, plenty of dechlorinator and alot of water changes and hard work, but done properly, wont cause too much undue stress on the fish.

The fish in question Im afraid are not compatible, particularly in that size tank. Blood Parrots can be territorial, however, they are not your big problem, so if you wish, you can keep them, but remove the Green Terrors as, the name suggests, they are very aggressive fish (ok it depends on personality, but by and large are very aggressive) and require a 55g tank minimum for ONE, let along two, even if you got a breeding pair (doubtful). Whilst beautiful fish they do not make for a peaceful community tank. If you want to keep one, then rehome the other AND the BP's. And perhaps add something for a dither fish along the lines of giant danios, but there isnt much that a GT cant kill if the mood takes him.

As for the mating of the fish, like I said I doubt the GT's will pair up, but they could and then there really would be carnage as they are even more territorial and aggressive when breeding. The BP's are infertile, they are a hybrid fish and as such do not (unless very rarely) breed, as the male is infertile. The female could breed with another cichlid, along the lines of a convict.

If you rehomed one BP and one GT, it may work, does depend entirely on the GT and BP personality, I wouldnt risk it, choose one species or neither. As I said if you want to keep ONE GT, add fast large sized dithers only, no other cichlid. If you want to keep the BP's, then larger sized tetras, barbs etc would be fine for dither fish.

Think thats it for now, hope some of that (probably not what you wanted to hear though) helps

 

[jonchall]

Hi and welcome back to fish keeping and to the forum

Thank you very much. Glad to be here and back into fish keeping!

So you are doing a fish in cycle (link in green in signature) which is going to require a good liquid based test kit, plenty of dechlorinator and alot of water changes and hard work, but done properly, wont cause too much undue stress on the fish.

The last time I was into keeping aquariums, this was pretty much all there was. I am fanatical about testing and water changes, so this should not present too much of a problem.

The fish in question Im afraid are not compatible, particularly in that size tank. Blood Parrots can be territorial, however, they are not your big problem, so if you wish, you can keep them, but remove the Green Terrors as, the name suggests, they are very aggressive fish (ok it depends on personality, but by and large are very aggressive) and require a 55g tank minimum for ONE, let along two, even if you got a breeding pair (doubtful). Whilst beautiful fish they do not make for a peaceful community tank. If you want to keep one, then rehome the other AND the BP's. And perhaps add something for a dither fish along the lines of giant danios, but there isnt much that a GT cant kill if the mood takes him.

As for the mating of the fish, like I said I doubt the GT's will pair up, but they could and then there really would be carnage as they are even more territorial and aggressive when breeding. The BP's are infertile, they are a hybrid fish and as such do not (unless very rarely) breed, as the male is infertile. The female could breed with another cichlid, along the lines of a convict.

If you rehomed one BP and one GT, it may work, does depend entirely on the GT and BP personality, I wouldnt risk it, choose one species or neither. As I said if you want to keep ONE GT, add fast large sized dithers only, no other cichlid. If you want to keep the BP's, then larger sized tetras, barbs etc would be fine for dither fish.

Thanks for the insight, it is very much appreciated and right in line with my further research. I have decided to return one of the GTs and one of the BPs. The other GT and BP have established their dominance over their counterparts, but not over each other--neither species really bothers the other, but are rather aggressive towards one of their own--IN MY AQUARIUM. I know this may change down the road. I have also decided to get another aquarium--we've been looking at a few nice corner bowfront tanks. With this one, I will definitely acquaint myself with "fishless cycling." My BP and GT should be just fine together until my new tank is cycled (if they continue thier current behavior), and I'm leaning heavily towards using the BP as the centerpiece of a lightly stocked community tank with the new one. I'll most likely do a good bit of research into a bottom feeder fo the GT tank to clean up any of his/her leftovers (he/she's a pig!) and leave it at that.

My wife loves the BP, but I've fallen for my little GT. It has already developed some brilliant coloration and is rather social with us--it seems to love looking at us as much as we love looking at it. Very inquisitive too--it nipped my fingertip this morning when I was taking a water sample. If I have to eventually keep it by itself in the 50 gallon, that will be more than fine by me!

Think thats it for now, hope some of that (probably not what you wanted to hear though) helps

It was very helpful, thank you! And actually, even though I would like to have several of these beautiful fish peacefully coexisting in the same tank and gurgling "Kumbaya" while holding fins and unselfishly sharing a tasty chunk of brine shrimp or bloodworms, you did tell me what I wanted to hear

Thanks again for taking the time to read and reply to my post!

Jon

 

[minxfishy]

No problem at all

The BP & GT should be fine at their size for now until the new tank is ready for the BP to go into It would only become a problem as they start to reach maturity, thats when the GT's aggressiveness would become very apparent.

As I said, you could get some dithers for him, giant danios being the best ones, fast, agile and not territorial, plus you should get away with a plec of some kind for the bottom, albeit not a large common plec, but possibly a bristlenose plec or similar sized under 8" plec.

The BP should be fine with some, as already mentioned, tetras, barbs, livebearers like swordtails and even some corydoras for the bottom area of the tank.

Any time you'd like to share some pics of your tank or fish, we love em by the way

 

[jonchall]

Thanks for the insight and advice Betta Boy, it is much appreciated.

I reread my post, and it did seem as though we went out to buy fish for a community tank but came home with what we have now (without any research) instead. Actually, after looking at fish and my wife wanting the BP, we went home and I did do quite a bit of research. Unfortunately, with research (especially on the Internet) comes a wealth of misinformation. I also called a LFS that, back when I was heavily into fish keeping in the mid 80's to mid 90's, was VERY reputable and extremely knowledgeable, and they told me that my choice would be just fine. They used to be the type of store that would rather not make a sale in favor of keeping your fish healthy and happy--seems that has changed now. That is the reason I am here and posted to this forum.

I have basically decided to return one of the GTs and one of the BPs, buy another aquarium--we've been looking at a few corner bowfronts--and use the BP we keep as a centerpiece in the new tank after a "fishless cycle."

Thanks for replying!

Jon

 

[jonchall]

No problem at all

The BP & GT should be fine at their size for now until the new tank is ready for the BP to go into It would only become a problem as they start to reach maturity, thats when the GT's aggressiveness would become very apparent.

As I said, you could get some dithers for him, giant danios being the best ones, fast, agile and not territorial, plus you should get away with a plec of some kind for the bottom, albeit not a large common plec, but possibly a bristlenose plec or similar sized under 8" plec.

The BP should be fine with some, as already mentioned, tetras, barbs, livebearers like swordtails and even some corydoras for the bottom area of the tank.

Any time you'd like to share some pics of your tank or fish, we love em by the way

Wow Minx, you're lightning fast with the replies!

I think a small school of Giant Danios would make a great addition to that the tank--I've had a school of 6 or 7 before, and if I remember correctly, they swam in unison rather often, which I find rather mesmerizing. I wouldn't want to overcrowd, nor would I want to under-school...4 or possibly 5 do you think? As far as a Pleco goes, I never was a real fan of the common variety--large algae eating poop machines that always loved to block my view of the tank by positioning themselves center front on the glass. However, I have been taking a hard look at the Gold Nugget and Para Plecos--both appear to have a maximum size of 8", so I would suspect they would stay under that.

I really had forgotton how fun and rewarding this hobby can be. I've always told my wife (during the 8 years we've been together) that I would love to have an aquarium, but I didn't realize HOW much I really missed it! Once I get everything settled, I'd love to share some pics--I know I love looking at other peoples' tank photos--some are just flat out amazing. First, I have to get my wife's pirate ship and multi-color plants into the other aquarium I'm a more of a naturalistic kind of person.

 

[minxfishy]

Its an addictive (and expensive ) hobby.

6 giant danios should be fine for the size of tank and I see no problems with either of those plecs, although from what Ive heard gold nuggets are sensitive to water quality problems, but once the tank has matured, should be fine

 

[jonchall]

Its an addictive (and expensive ) hobby.

Ain't that the truth! There are worse thing to be addicted to

6 giant danios should be fine for the size of tank and I see no problems with either of those plecs, although from what Ive heard gold nuggets are sensitive to water quality problems, but once the tank has matured, should be fine

Awesome! The larger the school, the more majestic--6 would be wonderful. From what I understand (as you stated) the Gold Nugget is fairly sensitive to water conditions, which caused me to look at the Para--it is essentially the opposite of the Gold Nugget coloration/marking wise and it can withstand a wider ranges of water conditions. In any event, my tank will be fully cycled, redecorated, and settled before I introduce any new inhabitants.

 

[jonchall]

Well, one BP and one GT have been returned. We also purchased a 36 gallon corner bowfront tank with a Fluval 305 (260 GPH). I told my wife we may be pushing the bottom limit on size for the BP with that size tank, but if nothing else, I will have an excuse to buy yet another tank down the road if (or most likely, when) he/she begins to outgrow the 36.

Any suggestions on dithers for the BP in the 36? My wife wants to stock it with colorful fish that are not too small, but I told her we have limitations given the size tank she picked out. She did ask about Gouramis, so I told her I would check. Of course, she also liked the Red Tailed Tinfoil Barbs (who wouldn't?!), but I told her that even if they could coexist with the BP, we would need a MUCH larger tank

Any suggestions would be VERY welcomed--my wife is slowly becoming disheartened with this whole endeavor after finding out that she couldn't just put whatever fish she liked together. I told her to be patient and hang in there--we'd find some good, compatible fish, and she would really enjoy it once it was all setup.

I will start the fishless cycle on the 36 gallon today--right after we "try" to return that gaudy pirate ship to the store!