New tank, next when tank is ready, introduce some fish
- Thread starter Country joe
- Start date
Hello. If you're anything like me, you want fish in the tank as soon as it's filled and all the equipment is running. You don't have to wait weeks or even months before putting your favorite fish in the tank.
That is a nicely decorated tank by the way.
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That is a nicely decorated tank by the way.
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Country joe
Fish Fanatic
Thanks for that, did my first water change today, went like a dream one very large plastic bucket placed in shower and filled up last night with a aquarium heater running in it, temp was same as the aquarium today small pond hose attached to good bit of hose from the aquarium, then transfered water from the bucket to fill up the tank, no mess whatsoever, API water treatment added and good to go, would like to have say 6 small Tetras, but have to be patient, will wait till I see if plants start to grow then do a water test, onward and upwards, will do a water change once a week even if there is no fish, hope this is the right thing to do.
Hello again. You can also use the API "Quick Start" to establish your bacteria colony. Your tank looks fairly small. By removing and replacing half the tank water a couple of times a week and using the API Tap Water Conditioner and Quick Start with each water change, you can acclimate a few, small fish. It isn't necessary to wait, because these liquids have prepared the tank for fish. But, if you have a procedure in place and you're confident with it, then by all means continue with your plan.
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Country joe
Fish Fanatic
I know some don't rate it it but I've been using Seachem Stability. The tank is the Juwel led Rio 125
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TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Quick Start does not contain the bacteria one needs to have in a tank. The needed bacteria will colonize despite using API. Nitrospira are the most important bacteria in terms of cycling. If you wish tto use a starter product, the Dr. Tim's One and Only or Tetra Safe Start both contain Nitrospira. Bear in mind that aquatic plants actually host some amount of bacteria on them. Adding plants gives one a double edged sword for dealing with ammonia and nitrate.
Next, there is a very simple way to know is a tank is safe for fish in term of the cycle. Add a bit of ammonia and then see what happens. If the in 24 hours of adding it you can not detect either ammonia or nitrite, you can add fish safely. of course it is a good idea to change the water before adding the fish. I suggest one use either 1 0r 2 ppm max. While plants "eat" ammonia, to high a concentration can actually harm them.
If one a bacterial starterhas to be added more than once, it is a sure sign that it does not contain the right bacteria. The problem is the nitrospira are patented and only Dr. Tim and Tetra have the right to sell them. So other products which contain live bacteria will contain Nitrobacter which thrives in much higher nitrite levels than Nitrospira. Out tanks do no create the concentrations of nitrite that are typical in waste water treatment.
I rarely cycle individual tanks. When I need more tanks it is usually several needed not just one. So instead of cycling the tanks I run a bio-farm for the filters for all the tanks and cycle them all at once. Then I am able to add the filters to the new tanks and stock all of the tank fully. The process takes about 10 to 14 days. This is not as easy to do as it sounds. By the end of cycling I am normally changing lots of water daily and will be adding 15 - 20 ppm of ammonia daily. This requires adding it several times over a day in smaller amounts which add up to the total.
A slow cycle in a panted tank is difficult to assess because of the potential difference in the types of plants one chooses as well as the total mass of the plants. I did corkscrew vals in my high tech planted tank. Once established they will reproduce. The do so under the substrate and the new plants emerge. Under good conditions they can almost be invasive.
Also, most of the new plants we buy (from reputable growers) should arrive with a store of nutrients. They will do well early on but can then fade if we fail to fertilize properly. Vals tend to be heavy root feeders.
Here is a simple truth. Water changes can slow a cycle but they cannot prevent the bacteria from establishing in a tank to the extent there is some ammonia available for them. Ammonia in water is in two forms-ammonia (NH3) is the smaller component and ammonium (NH4) is most of it. The bacteria prefer the NH3 and the plants prefer the NH4. Plants can consume NH4 way faster than the bacteria can consume NH3. However, no matter how many plants one has in a tank, they will also have some bacteria. On the other hand one can have a tank with no plants which is then made safe by microorganisms and perhaps a bit of algae.
Stability is even worse. The nitryfying bacteria do not forms spores and Stability is a bottle of spores.
Next, there is a very simple way to know is a tank is safe for fish in term of the cycle. Add a bit of ammonia and then see what happens. If the in 24 hours of adding it you can not detect either ammonia or nitrite, you can add fish safely. of course it is a good idea to change the water before adding the fish. I suggest one use either 1 0r 2 ppm max. While plants "eat" ammonia, to high a concentration can actually harm them.
If one a bacterial starterhas to be added more than once, it is a sure sign that it does not contain the right bacteria. The problem is the nitrospira are patented and only Dr. Tim and Tetra have the right to sell them. So other products which contain live bacteria will contain Nitrobacter which thrives in much higher nitrite levels than Nitrospira. Out tanks do no create the concentrations of nitrite that are typical in waste water treatment.
I rarely cycle individual tanks. When I need more tanks it is usually several needed not just one. So instead of cycling the tanks I run a bio-farm for the filters for all the tanks and cycle them all at once. Then I am able to add the filters to the new tanks and stock all of the tank fully. The process takes about 10 to 14 days. This is not as easy to do as it sounds. By the end of cycling I am normally changing lots of water daily and will be adding 15 - 20 ppm of ammonia daily. This requires adding it several times over a day in smaller amounts which add up to the total.
A slow cycle in a panted tank is difficult to assess because of the potential difference in the types of plants one chooses as well as the total mass of the plants. I did corkscrew vals in my high tech planted tank. Once established they will reproduce. The do so under the substrate and the new plants emerge. Under good conditions they can almost be invasive.
Also, most of the new plants we buy (from reputable growers) should arrive with a store of nutrients. They will do well early on but can then fade if we fail to fertilize properly. Vals tend to be heavy root feeders.
Here is a simple truth. Water changes can slow a cycle but they cannot prevent the bacteria from establishing in a tank to the extent there is some ammonia available for them. Ammonia in water is in two forms-ammonia (NH3) is the smaller component and ammonium (NH4) is most of it. The bacteria prefer the NH3 and the plants prefer the NH4. Plants can consume NH4 way faster than the bacteria can consume NH3. However, no matter how many plants one has in a tank, they will also have some bacteria. On the other hand one can have a tank with no plants which is then made safe by microorganisms and perhaps a bit of algae.
Stability is even worse. The nitryfying bacteria do not forms spores and Stability is a bottle of spores.
Hello. Sorry, I really didn't read the information you provided as to why it doesn't work. I like to have fish in a new tank as soon as the tank is set up and the water temperature established. I've used the API "Quick Start" on my last four tanks and it works great! You simply need to follow a sound water change routine and use the API products according to the instructions when you change the water.
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I find it very interesting the different ways of attacking a "cycle" and introducing fish. One thing I wish I was better at is getting out of my comfort zone and trying different methods. The phrase "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind. Unfortunately with that mentality I feel I'm shortchanging myself and not learning/downloading more useful knowledge to add to my arsenal. Stuck in a rut so to speak. I do it mostly because I'm scared the results will be dead fish. Anyone else feel the same?
Hello. To me, keeping fish is totally about keeping toxins out of the water. That's done through large, very frequent water changes. You can introduce fish into a new tank within a couple of days of filling the tank and allowing the water temperature to settle. Once the fish are in, you simply don't keep too many fish and change out most of the the water every three to four days, so dissolved waste material is removed before it can build up to anywhere near a toxic level.
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Country joe
Fish Fanatic
Thanks for that
, but doing water changes evert three days would be a no no for me, once a week or once every two would do me.
, but doing water changes evert three days would be a no no for me, once a week or once every two would do me.
10 Tanks' method is a variation on a fish-in cycle. The usual method is to add a few fish, test the water every day for ammonia and nitrite and do a water change every time either reads above zero. This can mean every day. 10 Tanks just does the water changes without testing.
At least with fishless cycling using ammonia to grow the bacteria we don't need to do any water changes until the cycle has finished.
At least with fishless cycling using ammonia to grow the bacteria we don't need to do any water changes until the cycle has finished.
Hello Country. Frequent water changes are needed because not only do the fish live in their own waste, but the fish and plants are constantly using the nutrients in the water. Water that stays in the tank too long contains a high level of toxic nitrogen and soon the nutrients are used up. The water must be replaced to remove toxins and replenish nutrients. A small tank hasn't enough water to dilute the dissolved waste for more than a few days. That's why you need to remove and replace the water in a small tank a lot more often than you do a much larger tank. This is also why larger tanks are more forgiving of mistakes in tank management than the small ones.
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