New tank, new to fish

[Kimdeyal]

Firstly, I'm apologize that I didn't do the right research before getting my fish. Now I just want to be the best fish caretaker I can.

We got a 20 gallon freshwater tank on Saturday. Treated it with conditioner and bacteria starter per pet store. Let it cycle for 24 hrs and then added 9 fish late Sunday. They are a mixture of mollies and platyes. Yesterday one died and one got the shimmies. Overnight, a different one passed. So I got a water test kit. The results were 7.6 pH, 0.25 ammonia, 0 NO2 and 0 NO3.

Based on advice on here, I'm doing a water change. About 50% because of time constraints. I can't do anything with the gravel today for the same reason. Any advice is appreciated. No "good" fish stores in town but on my way home today I'm going to stop at one in Houston and pick up whatever I need to fix my tank and have happy fishes so please let me know. Thanks in advance.

 

[Kimdeyal]

I'm also using seachem prime to condition this time.

 

[Colin_T]

ohh pretty colours
sorry haven't had much sleep and I'm going loopy

Get some Rift Lake Water conditioner (in a powder form). A 1-kg (2 pound) container is probably heaps.
Get a couple of clean 10-20 litre (2.5 - 5 gallon) buckets to use purely for the fish.
Get a gravel cleaner if you don't have one. Just a basic model like the one in the following link.
http://www.about-goldfish.com/aquarium-cleaning.html

If you have a light on the tank you could get some live plants if you want to try a few. Good plants to try include Ambulia, Hygrophilla polysperma, narrow Vallis, the common Amazon Swordplant, and some Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalilctroides).

The Water Sprite can be planted in the gravel or allowed to float on the surface. The rest of the plants should be planted in the gravel.

 

[Kimdeyal]

Thank you!

 

[Byron]

We need to back up, now we know more of what is going on here.

First, this is probably a cycling issue. The GH/KH was mentioned previously because that is critical for mollies (and livebearers in general), but a pH of 7.6 is on the basic side (as opposed to acidic side) of 7, so that is good. And might, I say might, indicate moderately hard or harder water. Can you check the website of your local water authority to see if they give the GH (general or total hardness) and Alkalinity (KH, carbonate hardness)? You should know these. And depending what you find out, increasing the hardness may not be necessary. So do this before you start acquiring more additives as that is only going to complicate matters and make life even harder for the fish.

And to the fish, this is more likely a cycling issue. Mollies cannot tolerate any ammonia. Daily water changes of 50% using tap water, Prime conditioner (only need what is required for the added water volume, but given the cycling you can over rather than under dose, but it doesn't take much). Use the bacterial supplement, it certainly cannot hurt and may help establish the nitrifying bacteria.

Test the water for ammonia and nitrite each day, prior to the water change. If either show above zero, do the 50% water change with Prime.

Do NOT mess with pH/GH/KH in any way until the cycling is completed. Cycling is stressful enough on fish, and just so you are prepared, the mollies are very unlikely to make it. The platies might. Once you kow the GH/KH of your source water, we can consider what if anything may bee advisable for the future. But the immediate concern is the cycling. Read more about what this is here:
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

This is in the Cycle section of this forum, and there are a couple other threads there too. I am not suggesting you start from scratch according to those instructions, just provide them for reading to understand it. You have fish in an uncycled tank, and there is only one way to deal with this, testing daily and water changes. Or take all the fish out and back to the store, but given their condition I doubt they would want them.

 

[Kimdeyal]

I honestly hope I can keep them alive through the process. I'm definitely going to try. I looked on the city website and there is no mention of either of those measurements. Only EPA regulated contaminants. If I can get all the fish through this hopefully they will start to thrive. I read the section you posted and they definitely did not mention any of that at the pet store. From now on I'm going to find a better one to go to. Hopefully my guys make it. In the other thread someone mentioned pictures just in case. It's attached though I'm assuming the water is really the issue. I think I got all of them in there.

 

[Byron]

I honestly hope I can keep them alive through the process. I'm definitely going to try. I looked on the city website and there is no mention of either of those measurements. Only EPA regulated contaminants. If I can get all the fish through this hopefully they will start to thrive. I read the section you posted and they definitely did not mention any of that at the pet store. From now on I'm going to find a better one to go to. Hopefully my guys make it. In the other thread someone mentioned pictures just in case. It's attached though I'm assuming the water is really the issue. I think I got all of them in there.

This is a water issue, cycling most likely. The fish don't look too bad, except for the black molly, so you may luck out.

Can you call the water folks and ask for the general hardness and Alkalinity? Pinning these down will at least tell you/us that once the cycling is over things should bee OK (or not, as the case may be).

 

[seangee]

Get as many floating plants as you can in there, they will help absorb the ammonia. If you are able to do so change the water twice a day. Unfortunately the shop has given you bad advice so those are the two best options available to you. Also feed sparingly. Once a week is enough until the water chemistry improves.

 

[Kimdeyal]

I called the city and they don't know that info but someone is going to pull some labs and get it to me Monday. I guess that's the good and bad thing about small municipalities. They did confirm that we use treated groundwater.

I have a "moss ball". Should I get more of those? Which floating plants will help? I'm going to be doing everything I can to help the survivors make it through my mistake. Also, how much water should I be changing each day or even twice a day? I will be testing it daily.

 

[Byron]

I called the city and they don't know that info but someone is going to pull some labs and get it to me Monday. I guess that's the good and bad thing about small municipalities. They did confirm that we use treated groundwater.

I have a "moss ball". Should I get more of those? Which floating plants will help? I'm going to be doing everything I can to help the survivors make it through my mistake. Also, how much water should I be changing each day or even twice a day? I will be testing it daily.

Moss will not do much here. I'll explain. Plants need nitrogen, and aquatic plants prefer it as ammonium/ammonia. So in the aquarium, live plants take up ammonia/ammonium, and fairly rapidly. But the faster growing the plant species, the more ammonia/ammonium it takes up. Floating plants are ideal for this, as they are very rapid growers (compared to moss for example). So almost any floating plants will help.

Test ammonia and nitrite daily, preferably early in the morning/day, and if either are above zero do a 50% water change using Prime. Test your tap water for ammonia too; if you have chloramine treatment this might show up as ammonia. This will tell us there is less of an issue with ammonia in the aquarium if it is in the tap water, and that is easy to deal with. Prime detoxifies ammonia (and nitrite) by binding it; but this is only temporary, 24-36 hours. After then, if still present, it reverts back to the toxic form. Also, the bound ammonia or nitrite will still show as such with the API tests, so if you use Prime and see ammonia or nitrite a few hours after, it does not mean the toxic form is present. Daily water changes are advisable along with Prime to keep both from harming fish.

Ammonia and nitrite poisoning can kill fish outright, but if not too severe the fish may live through it. However, internal damage is done, and this weakens the fish so down the road other issues may appear, including usually a shortened lifespan.

On the Gh and KH...if you cannot get answers, a local fish store might do tests for you. Test the tap water alone for GH/KH. But make sure you get the number of their test; some vague term like "medium hard" really tells us nothing; I have had that turn out to be very soft.

 

[Kimdeyal]

Ok, we got some duck weed. Last question for now, can I leave the fish in the tank? With so many water changes, I'm worried catching them will stress them more.

 

[seangee]

Yes you should leave them in the tank while doing water changes. Use your prime and try to get the temperature of the new water similar to that of your tank

 

[Colin_T]

Can you call the water folks and ask for the general hardness and Alkalinity? Pinning these down will at least tell you/us that once the cycling is over things should bee OK (or not, as the case may be).

Have you been thinking about honey again

I had leeches on my mind last week and you have bees on yours this week

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The black molly is not happy and the gold one has its dorsal (top) fin down a bit, which could have just happened when you took the photo. But they all look pretty good besides the black one.

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Do not do water changes twice a day, it is not necessary.

Check the water chemistry once a day and do a 50-75% water change if the ammonia or nitrite levels show a reading.

If you feed the fish once every 3 days and do a water change 3-4 hours after you feed them, the water change will dilute most of the ammonia produced by the fish food and waste from that feeding. Don't worry, the fish will not starve if only fed once every 3 days. When the filters have established you can feed them more often but right now, the less food going into the tank, the less ammonia produced and the cleaner the water will stay. This means less water changes for you and happier fish.

Leave the fish in the tank when you do a water change. Turn filter and heater off, or make sure they are not going to come out of the water when you drain the tank. Then use the gravel cleaner to drain some water out of the aquarium into the bucket and tip that water on the lawn or garden. Then add some clean water to fill the tank up.

*NB* Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the aquarium. The easiest way to do this is to fill the buckets with water, add dechlorinator and then aerate for 30 minutes or more. Then add that water to the tank.

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When you work on or in the aquarium, make sure you don't have any moisturising creams, grease, oil, perfume, deodorant or anything else on your hands because these can poison the fish if they get into the tank. Also use a non perfumed soap to wash up with because even the residual perfume from soap can cause problems.

After working on the tank wash your hands with soapy water to remove any potential pathogens that might be in the tank water.

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Water Sprite is one of the best floating plants you can get. It can be planted in the substrate or left to float on the surface. It grows in most tanks and doesn't need anything special besides a little bit of light.

 

[Kimdeyal]

Just a quick update. We still have 5 of the fishes! Checking the water every day and changing if it's anywhere above 0 on ammonia and nitrite. I will say that I bought some Biodigest. It's supposed to help drastically with the bacteria colonization and I think it's really making a big difference. I check the water twice a day but we haven't needed to change it in about 3 days now. We will continue monitoring to be safe but I think the rest might make it now. Thank you for all your help or I'm sure I would have lost them all!

Prodibio Bio Digest, Nitrifying Bacteria, Fresh and Salt Water, 6/1 mL vials, 30 gal and up https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009NA5U0I/?tag=ff0d01-20

 

[Colin_T]

Good to hear things are settling down

You can reduce the number of water tests to once a day or every couple of days.