New Tank Help

I bought the fish from petland...Idk if I can return them. I know they said I can get my money back if they die within a week if I bring the fish and a water sample. I've read (on here) about that fishless cycle and that does seem so much easier. About the 50% wc...won't that drop the temp in my tank too much? Honestly, I don't think the fish I got from that store were very good. I'm not sure how fish are supposed to act really but I think the black and white one acts weird...now it sometimes rubs itself into the filter motor and then shoots away really quickly. And today I saw the orange one (which I now think they had mistakenly labled as a swordtail because I looked up swordtails and my fish doesn't look like that) had some white stringy poo. I'm afraid they are all sick...I just don't know and I don't want to dump tons of meds in there. No one at the store told me that the penguin tetra is a schoaling? fish...however you say they like to be in groups. I know I have a petco in town...do you all think I'd have better luck with fish there. I guess I should've looked up the types more but I figured I'd go see what the store had and I'd just pick a couple. That plan did not seem to work out well.

Thank you all for your help and advice
 
I bought the fish from petland...Idk if I can return them. I know they said I can get my money back if they die within a week if I bring the fish and a water sample. I've read (on here) about that fishless cycle and that does seem so much easier. About the 50% wc...won't that drop the temp in my tank too much? Honestly, I don't think the fish I got from that store were very good. I'm not sure how fish are supposed to act really but I think the black and white one acts weird...now it sometimes rubs itself into the filter motor and then shoots away really quickly. And today I saw the orange one (which I now think they had mistakenly labled as a swordtail because I looked up swordtails and my fish doesn't look like that) had some white stringy poo. I'm afraid they are all sick...I just don't know and I don't want to dump tons of meds in there. No one at the store told me that the penguin tetra is a schoaling? fish...however you say they like to be in groups. I know I have a petco in town...do you all think I'd have better luck with fish there. I guess I should've looked up the types more but I figured I'd go see what the store had and I'd just pick a couple. That plan did not seem to work out well.

Thank you all for your help and advice

Regarding the 50% wc, try to get your new water temp as close to the tank water temp as you can. Rubbing itself can be a sign of disease. I know Petsmart has a 14 day return policy and Petco has something similar, maybe a little longer. Online, Petland has a 30 day return policy...may be the same with instore purchases. You're better off returning the fish and start fresh with a fishless cycle. It should take up to 5-6 weeks to cycle or longer or shorter, depending if you have an seeding material or not. I didn't have any so it took me 6 weeks. During this time, you can research online or visit fish stores to see what fishes you like and see if they are compatible or not. Good Luck.
 
fair warning, i'm going to say some things that the folks here aren't going to agree with.

first,you need to do two things with fish in cycling, do ONE 50% water change daily and keep your water temp between 80 and 85 degrees F. do not do multiple water changes in a single day, that will remove the ammonia than you need to start the cycle. yes, it's a double edged sword. you NEED ammonia to start the cycle, and you need to keep the fish healthy, it's VERY difficult to do.

when the ammonia levels drop off then nitrite levels will spike and again, you need the nitrite to complete the cycle, but it's VERY toxic to the fish. so again you are juggling.. keep doing 50% water changes and keep the temps up.

fish in cycling actually goes faster than fishless cycling.. but it's very detrimental to the fish.

the white spots you saw initially is probably ich. the shortened fins you saw are probably from ammonia burns, if your fish survive the cycling process, they will grow back. the fish weren't defective when you bought them, except that the store obviously has ich in their tanks that came home with the fish you bought. the best cure for ich is high temps 85 - 87 degrees with an added air stone and air pump (i like the little bubble walls for this, they look good, and are cheap to operate) because warmer water doesn't hold as much oxygen for the fish to breath. some folks like to add aquarium salt to help kill the ich, but the higher temps will do it without the salt. salt is a good cure for many diseases though, i think the dose is 1 tsp for 5 gallons of water. it'll help that fin heal too.

the big thing while you're doing these water changes is the dechlorinator, ALWAYS treat the water with dechlorinator before adding it to the tank. i should probably add here that there are some excellent products out there that not only dechlorinate but also help jump start the cycle, one i know that some fish folks use and recommend to others is Seachem Stability.

and the water temp, but one or two degrees won't harm the fish. it would harm the fish if you poured icewater into an 80+ degree tank and took it down to 70 degrees in a matter of seconds, that will kill your fish. pouring slightly cooler water in and dropping the temp to 78 for a few minutes won't bother the fish at all. your tank will cycle faster and the fish will be healthier if you keep the temp in the tank over 80 degrees.
 
Don't think anyone has mentioned trying to get some mature filter media from a friend or even try the LFS where you bought the fish. Explain they gave you bad advice and a way for them to redeem themselves is give you some of their filter media.
 
fair warning, i'm going to say some things that the folks here aren't going to agree with.

first,you need to do two things with fish in cycling, do ONE 50% water change daily and keep your water temp between 80 and 85 degrees F. do not do multiple water changes in a single day, that will remove the ammonia than you need to start the cycle. yes, it's a double edged sword. you NEED ammonia to start the cycle, and you need to keep the fish healthy, it's VERY difficult to do.

***I see your point about the ammonia being needed, but the permenant harm to the fish has to be taken into concideration. I would do one water change at 75 - 90% depending on the level of ammonia.

when the ammonia levels drop off then nitrite levels will spike and again, you need the nitrite to complete the cycle, but it's VERY toxic to the fish. so again you are juggling.. keep doing 50% water changes and keep the temps up.

***Same advice as stated above.

fish in cycling actually goes faster than fishless cycling.. but it's very detrimental to the fish.

***It may seem like the cycle goes faster for a fish in cycle, but when you add more fish, you end up with ammonia problems. Fishless cycling allows you to fully stock once the cycle is complete.

the white spots you saw initially is probably ich. the shortened fins you saw are probably from ammonia burns, if your fish survive the cycling process, they will grow back. the fish weren't defective when you bought them, except that the store obviously has ich in their tanks that came home with the fish you bought. the best cure for ich is high temps 85 - 87 degrees with an added air stone and air pump (i like the little bubble walls for this, they look good, and are cheap to operate) because warmer water doesn't hold as much oxygen for the fish to breath. some folks like to add aquarium salt to help kill the ich, but the higher temps will do it without the salt. salt is a good cure for many diseases though, i think the dose is 1 tsp for 5 gallons of water. it'll help that fin heal too.

***I agree with upping the temp to help with ich, but raising the temp just speeds up the life cycle for the parasite, it does not kill it. The salt kills the ich. To kill ich with temps, you must add salt.


the big thing while you're doing these water changes is the dechlorinator, ALWAYS treat the water with dechlorinator before adding it to the tank. i should probably add here that there are some excellent products out there that not only dechlorinate but also help jump start the cycle, one i know that some fish folks use and recommend to others is Seachem Stability.

***I don't believe in the bacterial aids, but dechlorinator is a must. I've never used Seachem Stability, but I use Seachem Prime.

and the water temp, but one or two degrees won't harm the fish. it would harm the fish if you poured icewater into an 80+ degree tank and took it down to 70 degrees in a matter of seconds, that will kill your fish. pouring slightly cooler water in and dropping the temp to 78 for a few minutes won't bother the fish at all. your tank will cycle faster and the fish will be healthier if you keep the temp in the tank over 80 degrees.

***I don't think we disagree completely, just on a few things.
 
Don't think anyone has mentioned trying to get some mature filter media from a friend or even try the LFS where you bought the fish. Explain they gave you bad advice and a way for them to redeem themselves is give you some of their filter media.

I like that idea but can I trust then to give me media that isn't diseased? Does disease even transfer that way?

And I saw here people say to use aquarium salt...can I use kosher salt (i have some already) because it doesn't have iodine in it (the label clearly says not iodized)?
 
I like that idea but can I trust then to give me media that isn't diseased? Does disease even transfer that way? And I saw here people say to use aquarium salt...can I use kosher salt (i have some already) because it doesn't have iodine in it (the label clearly says not iodized)?

there is a list on this site of people all over the world that are willing to donate established filter media. but i don't remember which forum it's in. find the person closest to you and send them a PM or an email.

i don't know anything about kosher salt. i do know that i have used rock salt, aquarium salt and pool salt in my aquariums and they all work just fine.
 
I have decided I really don't like this store. I went and bought a water test kit today and asked to speak with the original guy who sold me the tank...according to the cashier and staff he is the most knowledgable person in the fish dept. Some young girl refused to go get him and said it sounds like I have ick, and no she would not give me mature filter media because all they have are bioballs and that won't fit in my filter. She recommended "cycle" which I think everyone else i've spoken to has said is either harmful or at best useless. When I said I didn't want to buy that she tried to get me to buy another cycling product and said they used it all thier tanks and didn't even recommend an ick medicine (which I'm already using melafix and pimafix but i don't think either are for ick) which is what she thinks I have.

Sorry, rant over...I know I'm new at this but these people don't seem very helpful...and Thank you to whoever mentioned getting filter media from someone on here. I looked though and don't see anyone from GA on the list...I think one person from Fla though. Do I have to get it overnighted or can the bacteria last longer?
 
melafix and pimafix do nothing for ich. temp (86 degrees F) and salt cure ich. no need for ich meds, most of which do nothing and end up getting your fish killed too.

i don't know a lot about cycling products.. i know a lot of folks that i know personally recommend seachem stability for jump starting the cycle, and they also recommend seachem prime but i think it's just a dechlorinator. back in the day, i used to use bio-spria by Marineland, but they sold out to Tetra. it now comes in a yellow bottle and it's called Safe Start or something like that.. i quit using it when Tetra bought it. and i have enough established media in my tanks that i just clone tanks now instead of cycling them.

check around on this forum.. there is a list of folks that will help with established media for the asking.
 
Thank you all for your help and advice. I think I'll start a cycle log or something to continue to get help with establishing this tank. I'm enjoying having fish but they are so much work. Next time I think I'll try the fishless cycle or something. From what I gather, the work will decrease significantly once I get the tank cycled. I do feel though that my "emergency" is more or less resolved and I don't want to take up space and time here anymore. Please don't forget about me though and hopefully I'll get some more good help and advice on my cycle log page.

Thanks again y'all!
 
Take out your fish or they will die. The ammonia should be zero. Wait for it to be zero before adding fish.
 

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