New Tank - Fish And Any Other Advice?

[moochy13]

If you have access to mature media then then you are instantly cycled and you don't have to worry.

yes and no. fish can be added, but you wont be able to fully stock your tank. you will still have to build up the bacteria. the rough guide is that i could give you 30% of my filter media without risking disaster in my tank. naturally this would mean you could stock to about 30-40% of what you wanted (though this is complicated by which fish you want) but for ease lets say you wanted 10 guppies. with 30% of my mature media, you could put 3-5 guppies in straight away, and things should stay under control in the tank, while hopefully your bacteria are multiplying into your 'un-matured' media. a 5-7 days later say, you could add another 2 or 3, keeping on top of water changes, testing the water, keeping an eye out for signs of bad water (red gills, lazy fish, fish hanging at the surface). then maybe after 2 and a half weeks or so you would go to your full 10 guppies.

just an example, but i would say you could half the time at least by obtaining some mature media. i actually did a fish in cycle from scratch, no mature media to use. i was forced into it because i had to rehome some fish very quickly. it took me about 3 weeks of changing about 40-50% of the water every other day before all my fish were in and the tank was settled. BUT, i had fish in my tank from day one. not ideal as during the first few days, as i had no mature media, i was changing water EVERY day.

if you can get some media, you still need to be picky about what fish you put in first. in which case you need to decide what you want. from a purely financial point of view, i wouldnt want to put the dwarf cichlids in first, incase things go wrong. cherry barbs may be a good choice, but i used tetras when cycling mine to begin with. some fish, like neons, are pretty weak and dont do well in a new established tank, let alone one which is cycling. other fish (catfish in general) create lots of mess, which can put unneccessary pressure on you as you try keep the water nice.

lots to think about, numero uno is trying to get some media to help your cycling decision. numero dos is deciding which shoaling fish you want (at most i would have 2 types, each groups of about 8), you need to decide on this incase you decide to fish in cycle. shoaling fish, like barbs and tetras, should be kept in groups of at least 6 so they exhibit some hint of natural behaviour, and they wont hide away. personal preference is that more impact can come from 1 or 2 decent sized shoals than 3 smaller shoals.

 

[LindseyH]

Thanks, Moochy — that's very helpful. We're going back to our main IFs now. Fingers crossed, we'll be able to get some mature media.

Am I right in thinking that if a filter ever fails and needs replacing, it's necessary to keep the media from it in the tank and then transfer it to the new filter? I'm wondering how you transfer the good bacteria into new equipment without endangering a tank full of fish. I imagine that this would be the only way.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Yes you would keep the media in the tank (not in the filter) as it needs water to be flowing through/across it. And as there will be very little flow when in the tank you have a limited time before the bacteria start to shut down so you have to get the media into the new filter ASAP.

 

[moochy13]

there is an accurate figure of the decay rate of bacteria, certainly a day or 2 should be managable, plenty of people on here have left their filters off accidentally, or interfering kids/spouses have turned them off unwittingly. theres no danger to the fish, if your filter broke, or you were upgrading, just keep the media wet in tank water, and put as much of it as you can in your new filter. having it out of the water for 10 seconds isnt going to kill it, mine is generally out in fresh air for about 20 minutes while im cleaning my filter. one thing that will instantly kill all your bacteria is tap water. dont ever clean your filter in tap water.

 

[LindseyH]

I now have a matured sponge from a 12 month old filter. It's currently in a plastic bag, floating on the surface of my tank.

My Ph levels are highly alkaline. I've got some buffer to put in to correct this but I'm not sure whether it will interfere with the matured filter or whether, conversely, the high alkalinity will effect it. Can I put both in at the same time?

The ammonia is already rising.

I have no fish yet. I thought that maybe putting some fish food in would help to build the ammonia and keep the filter alive.

Any advice will be appreciated!

 

[LindseyH]

It's no longer in the bag. I decided to put the matured filter in. It's now running. I haven't used the buffer yet though, or added anything to increase ammonia levels (other than the water from the bag the media came in).

 

[moochy13]

You need to take your filter apart and put your mature sponge in it somehow. Certainly take it out of the bag, and if you cant put it in your filter in the short term, secure it in front of where the water is sucked in. The water will then have to pass through the mature sponge, spreading bacteria into your filter. Good times.

ph and acidity wont matter

 

[LindseyH]

I'm concerned about the ammonia. I could possibly buy fish tomorrow but obviously I can't put any in until the Ph is less alkaline. Until then, fish food is all I have to keep the bacteria alive.

The matured filter is now installed and running nicely.

 

[moochy13]

right ok so you now have a mature sponge in your filter yeah ? you say you're testing with test strips ? is this how you're measuring ammonia ? what im about to say, some people might frown upon, as basically from this point i would wing it, as i did with my tank. saying that, if the mature sponge has filled your filter, in theory its at 100% efficiency, but best to keep on the safe side.

youve got a filter with a mature sponge in. how much other media is in the filter, or did the mature sponge take up all the room ?

what fish are you thinking of getting ? next step is to get some to keep the filter bacteria fed with ammonia. the ammonia in your tank is no problem right now, before you put your fish in, change as much of the water as you can, at least 60-70% minimum, preferably more. how many fish you get will depend on what they are.

what is your ph ? i have to be honest, i dont get hung up on it, and i dont think its worth it unless you're keeping very expensive, very specialised or very rare fish. i find that a lot of your average community fish are locally bred, and therfor living in the same water as your tanks. perhaps you should ask the lfs what their ph is ? fish food will do the job for now, but while there is ammonia in teh water the filter bacteria will be fine.

 

[LindseyH]

The filter … I put the whole sponge in , yes. It was a rectangular piece, presumably from an external filter. I cut that into two squares and cut a slit in the centre (my Eheim is round, and the sponges are doughnut shaped). I then put the sponges on top of the ones in my own filter, one in each section. The IFs said that I didn't need to replace my own sponges and that I could put these on top of them.

I took a water sample to the IFs, in two separate, sterile containers. They did a liquid test for me and both water samples came out the same. The ph was something like 7.9. I've now added the buffer so hopefully this will come down. The IFs were surprised by how alkaline the water was. Apparently is unusual for my area. I don't have limestone in the tank and we couldn't work out what might have caused it (the bogwood was my best guess).

Neither IFs I visited were willing to sell me fish for another week (I had the liquid test done in one store and got the sponge in another).

I was surprised that they recommended neon tetras. The IFs said that they tolerate fluctuations in ammonia and nitrates better than almost any other fish.

I'm looking at rams, barbs (ideally shoals of cherry and gold), gourami, rainbow fish and at least one catfish, probably a pleco. My daughter also wants apple snails. We'd thought of cardinal tetras too. But we're also open to ideas for initial, hardy fish, and for better combinations. I don't expect to buy many to begin with. We thought we'd build them up over the next few weeks. The IFs suggested some that can be introduced to new tanks — I think they were black widow tetras but I'm not sure. We do quite like them (as silver fish go ).

 

[LindseyH]

I should add that in terms of fish, we'd also like recommendations for any that are particularly interesting to watch or charismatic, even if they're not bright.

 

[biohazard156]

I particularly like watching my panda cory, they are very active, and though they are not super bright, are lovely wee fish! Ember tetra and a great small wee tetra species and are a lovely coppery orange colour.

Another fish I have which I love are rummynose rasbora (not rummynose tetra) and they are very active, very colourful (males are sky blue with orange tail and nose) and they show off to each other all the time

 

[Rummynose]

If you have a local aquarium fish club you could contact them and see if you could get some mature filter media. If you get a third of their filter media it won't harm their tank and you can stock your tank with a third of the amount of fish the donor has in his tank. That way you can have an instantly cycled tank and if you slowly add 2-3 fish at a time, watch for any ammonia spikes, do water changes, and you can build up the stocking you're after quite quickly!

oops, I'd missed reading page 2, lol!

 

[LindseyH]

I'm intending to take another water sample for testing tomorrow and, if the ph issue has resolved itself, to buy a few fish. Just wanted to check that this is a good plan (and that it's the best route given the need to maintain ammonia levels).

 

[Ruskull]

what sort of filter do you have ? id say its even worth paying a bit for mature media, especially in your situation to keep little'un happy. might get some for free though. bear in mind 95% + of 'good bacteria' live in the filter media - some say the water/gravel can help, in my opinion its not worth the hassle. bearing in mind you will be changing lots of water each day, getting water from the fish shop is a waste of time.

i take it you got dechlorinator for the water ? the fish i mentioned cant all be kept together, and not in big numbers either. you have to get male/female ratios right, and if these dwarf cichlids start mating, they can be a bit aggressive and terrotorial. however you have a nice long tank with a decent footprint, similar to mine, which means you have scope for a lot of territory. as oppose to a tank that was taller, with less floorpsace. however, this is all stuff you will find out as you research the fish, and ask questions to the right people. im not one of them to be honest.

as for red - i have a big soft spot for cherry barbs. if you get nice ones, the males are an amazing vibrant red. in my sig pic of my tank, you can see a couple of bright red spots on the left of the tank - they're my barbs. cheap, small, and totally docile. the females are not as red, but are more crimson and cream patterned.

I love Cherry Barbs! A tank the size he/she has should be able to have at least (3) pairs depending on what else they want to stock with. A Dwarf Gourami would well with the Barbs and they could add a school of (10) Black Phantom Tetras or something similar.

Her's a random pic of a Dwarf:

I should add that in terms of fish, we'd also like recommendations for any that are particularly interesting to watch or charismatic, even if they're not bright.

Panda Corydoras Catfish!!!