New South American Puffer Problems, quite long

[4DDM]

Hi all, am new to the forum but have been keeping fish a while. Sorry about the long post but I wanted to get all the detail in. I have a 210l Rena tank (120cmx45cmx45cm – 4ftx1.5ftx1.5ft) community setup with the following fish

1 Rainbow tetra
5 Black widow tetras
3 diamond tetras
3 T barbs (spanner barbs, 1 is a bit of a monster at nearly 4 inches long)
2 Kribs
2 Rams
2 Pictus catfish
2 bristle nose catfish
1 Yoyo loach (Pakistani loach) 5 or 6 inches long
On Sunday I brought a South American puffer (Colomesus asellus) after weeks of wanting one and reading up on them. I did the usual when I got him home, light off, bag in the water for and hour or so, then set him free.
He swam off to one corner where he sat for a few seconds and then swam across the front of the tank. One of the T barbs spotted him (cannot remember if it was the monster) and as the puff is only small (1 inch long max), lunged at him thinking he was food. He seemed to realise pretty quick that he was not food and did not pursue the matter further. Puff swam into the centre of the tank where he again attracted t barb attention, another lunge, cannot remember if it was the same barb or not. The light was still off at this point and then one of the kribs came along, lunged and then followed the puff through a few plants into the corner of the tank where he just sat there looking at him, at this point the net went in to rescue the little guy, he was only in the tank for 30 seconds or so, but as this was the fist real display of aggression I have seen in the tank since I set it up a year ago, it was quite upsetting.

The Puffer is now sat in a brooding tank with some gravel, bit of tube and plant. The brooding tank is in my main tank but he is safe in it. He has not lost any coloration and seems active enough, spending lots of time trying to escape by swimming hard, nose on the glass. I have not seen him take food but this lunchtime he had a bit of blood worm stuck in his teeth, which is a positive sign.

I just don’t know what to do, the LFS I brought him from recommended the brooding tank whilst he grows a little, but another said it is not fair to keep him in the brooding tank for too long. They suggested feeding the fish right up so they are not hungry and then giving it another try, the said the tank mates just need to find a pecking order which I am inclined to agree with, but if you are viewed as food, what good is trying to find a place in the pecking order??

Shall I keep him in the brooding tank for a while, beef him up and hope the other leave him alone?
Feed the other and give him another try and hope the others leave him alone?
Take him back to the fish shop and wait for a bigger one to come in?
Take the Krib and T barb back to the fish shop?

Please help. I wanted this fish so much that is making the whole thing that much more upsetting.

Thanks in advance,

Adam

 

[boom-sage]

I dont think that you should turn off the light when acclimating to water. You should let the fish in the tank see the new tankmate to get a feel for it. I think the lunge was a sign of curisoty. That is what my t- barbs do. you shouldnot panic and slowly let him into the other tank and see what happens. as for food you should try a more floating food like frozen plankton.

 

[4DDM]

Thanks for the fast response boom-sage. I see you point, pete the puffer as the girlfriend has now named him has been in the clear plastic box for a day or 2 now so his tankmates should be use to him by now.

I was more concerned by the way the krib stalked it into a corner then sat there eyeing him up. I think you are right though, feed them all up nicely, wait for half and hour or so then set him free and keep a close eye on the goings on. I am just concerned that he might go missing at night time. The t barbs are big and clumsy and are always hungry, with lights out he might get mistaken for food. He will not fit in any of their mouths but I dont want him getting hurt.

Thanks for the reassurance, it is what I needed.

 

[enchanted]

I would worry more about the fish that decides to attack your puffer then the puffer.

All puffers are different, but they all have extremely strong mouths and can defend themselves.

 

[4DDM]

I must admit, there has gotta be a reason why the krib did not keep attacking... I reckin he got a nip.... he may be small but his teeth are huge!!!

I think I am going to give the little guy another chance in the tank... I am going to add a few more hiding places as the other cave dwellers have favourites.... and I would like him to have somewhere to swim to if the the tbarbs get outa hand... do you think they just need time to get use to him? The smallest diamond tetra is little bigger than the puffer and he has no problems, I just think it is the way he moves and his shape that goes against him.

Thanks all for the help and advice, anymore is greatly appreciated.

 

[Erised]

I agree with enchanted here, and much as you wont like hearing this, I think you're probably better of either getting a new tank or return your puffer. Puffers really should be kept in species only tanks (surprised you didnt find this in your search) and wont do too well in community tanks for more than 1 reason.

Your other fish dont seem to accept him ... and even if they do a couple of days from now the puffer probably will have gotten annoyed with them and attack them in the (perhaps near) future. Most fish will not survive a proper puffer bite, so chances of you losing your other fish are quite high.

Another thing I would worry about is the puffer getting enough food. With all the other fish around, will he have enough time to get to the food and keep him alive?

 

[MAM]

well, as said, puffers are best kept in a species tank. now, the south americans ARE the most passive of puffers as puffers go, and CAN work in some community setups, but yours in NOT one of those. first off, you only have three tiger barbs. to cut down on nipping and aggression, 6 or more is best, but only if you have room. secondly, kribs can be terrtitorial, so that wasn't a surprise either.

if you really want the puffer, get rid of the barbs and kribs. otherwise, take the puffer back. keeping him in that little box is going to stress him out big time. if you don't have another tank for him, taking him back for now is best. you could alsways set up a second tank and get one later.

 

[4DDM]

That is why I went for the South American as it is suppose to be more compatible with other fish. I hear what you are saying and no it is not what I want to hear, but I have the fish’s best interests at heart. I have already grown very attached to him and to be honest I don’t give a t0ss about the barbs or kribs…. The kribs are pretty boring and the barbs butch and ugly. The way I see it I do one of the following:

1) Take the puffer back, this is my least favourite idea.
2) Take the kribs and barbs back, don’t care about this, the LFS can take one or the other back.
3) I set up a second tank, either separate from main tank and slightly brackish or I can loop it off my main tank siphon out and pump back. If so what size tank should I be looking at. I will just have it for this one puffer.

Thanks all for the advice so far.

 

[LadyMinion]

That is why I went for the South American as it is suppose to be more compatible with other fish. I hear what you are saying and no it is not what I want to hear, but I have the fish’s best interests at heart. I have already grown very attached to him and to be honest I don’t give a t0ss about the barbs or kribs…. The kribs are pretty boring and the barbs butch and ugly. The way I see it I do one of the following:

1) Take the puffer back, this is my least favourite idea.
2) Take the kribs and barbs back, don’t care about this, the LFS can take one or the other back.
3) I set up a second tank, either separate from main tank and slightly brackish or I can loop it off my main tank siphon out and pump back. If so what size tank should I be looking at. I will just have it for this one puffer.

Thanks all for the advice so far.

Personally, I would suggest the final option - give the puffer his own tank. Minimum tank size for one would be five gallons although the more room the better. SAs are pure freshwater so no salt needed. Make sure you have adequate filtration and heating.

Although it would be nice for him to go in the main tank, even without your barbs and kribs there would be trouble. Those tetras and rams are going to get hassled at some point.

 

[4DDM]

Thaks lady minion.... I think I am going to go for the new tank option. I am keen to just take water from the main tank and then pump it back in. Not because it is cheaper but because it wont require any cycling.

Pretty sure my main tank has the filtration and heat capacity, I just need to figure out a way to do it and make it look good. The Rena looks stunning and I am concerned that adding a tank by the side or underneath will make it look... well naff!!!!

 

[4DDM]

Okay, now I have a dilemma. Pete the Puffer ate this morning for the first time (well that I have seen) and it was really heart warming! Sounds sad I know, but he scoffed down a load of frozen blood worm. I cannot get rid of him now as he has shown willingness to survive!

A few people have said that I should give him another try in the main tank and some say it is not worth bothering. My concern is that he looks so small in comparison to the Pictus or spanner barb, please note it is not a tiger barb and cannot find the Latin name. Also given the way the Krib stalked him makes me wonder if he will survive a night…. I also have a rather large boisterous YoYo (Pakistani) Loach, that likes to play with his tank mates.

I am also not sure how long it will take before the puffer can go in the new tank. I could leave the new filter running in my main tank to help colonise the media, I could also use tank water from the existing tank and take some gravel, rock, plant or wood to help the new tank. If I did this would the new tank still go through a cycling process with an ammonia and nitrite spike? I just want to get the puffer out the brooding pen ASAP. I am keen to pump water out the main tank into the new and then back again as this will solve the cycling issue, but I am not sure I want to put a smaller tank next to my main one as it may spoil the look.

Once again thanks…
Adam

 

[Pufferpack]

I would keep him out of the main tank, the Pictus will eventually try to eat the puffer no matter what size he reaches (Pictus cats are eating machines IME).
Since your main tank is already cycled, I would just buy the same type of filter you are using now, for the new tank, and put the old filter media from the main tank into the new filter, some of the gravel from the established tank would help as well, and that should give you a good bacteria colony for the puffer tank. I wouldn't bother with water from the main tank, as there is very little beneficial bacteria in the water column.

 

[4DDM]

Thanks pufferpack, the only thing is my filter for 270l tank is pretty big and I was just going to buy a small internal if I was going to keep the tank water systems separate (thus the media would be different sizes and different makes. Ideally I want to take water from the main tank and then pump it back, thus using the bacteria colony in my main filter, the only problem with that is the fact the new tank will have to be next to the existing and may take away the dramatic impact it has on the room. Any suggestions?

 

[Pufferpack]

If you can, I would cut the media in half and use half in the new filter.
Depending on the size of the new tank you could set up a shelf either above or below the main tank and put the new tank there, or you could set up supports inside the main tank and insert a smaller tank right into the main tank, same idea as the breeding traps, but you would need a screen type of lid on the smaller tank to keep the fish inside. Another option is to beg some filter media from the lfs, or a friend, for the new tank.

 

[4DDM]

This is my tank

http/www.aquariumsuperstore.co.uk/mall/r...lifeclassic.asp

I have the basic 120 one with the stand seen further down the page. I thought about putting the tank in the centre shelf areas, but it would leave little room for cleaning. I am also thinking about taking the door off one of the cupboards and getting a tank made up to the exact size and slip it in there, but I am not sure a tank pretty much on the floor would look that great. Going to my LFS at lunch to look at the options. Thanks for the suggestion about filter media, and cutting it in half.

Adam