New Setup Advice Please

[robbo1987]

Hi guys, ok so ill try and explain this as best i can without talking to much crap...

i have a 20 litre tank (small i know...) and im looking to start it up again with a few small tropicals.. im hopefully going to get some cardinal tetra's or something similar.

now i originally set the tank up around 7 months ago with a goldfish, but sadly the goldfish didnt last 4 weeks, and the tank since was kind of left with an old plant floating about and a few little snails generally doing nothing. im guessing something went seriously wrong with the cycle, i was doing lots of water changes etc but obv didnt do enough.

anyway, this morning i have given it a quick clean.... the tank still contained half the water from last time which i have kept as i thought maybe it has the right bacteria to help with the cycle? i took out the old plant.. but havent cleaned the gravel, as again a friend advised that bacteria and things in the gravel will help...

got rid of the filter as i feel it was a cheap and inadequate one, but my friend has given me a used interpet pf1 which seems more than capable for a tank this size... which has been used in a tank before, this is currently in the tank filtering the water.

Ive also added a bit of flake food as ive been told this can also help with a fishless cycle.

So what next? id also like to add a small plant but is it safe to do this now or do i wait? and also how long should i leave it before i think of introducing fish? and would it be a good idea introducing neons in first?

regards
Robbo

 

[erk628]

What are your water stats? What water testing kit are you using.

 

[robbo1987]

Im using API 5 in one test strips and api ammonia testing kit. oh and ive also added some tetra aquasafe to the water.

stats are PH around 7.5, nitrite and nitrate 0, GH was sky high at 180 but i dont know what the gh needs to be tbh.

and ammonia seems to be around 0.25mg/l but i fail to see how there should be any ammonia considering theres no fish? come to think of it i feel it may be a bad ammonia testing kit.

 

[KoiKris]

Test strips arent very accurate and you'd do much better using a liquid test kit. Theyre quite expensive in stores but if you visit eBay or similar youll find then much cheaper

 

[erk628]

First off I would suggest getting the API master liquid test kit. The strips are very inacurate. You have some ammonia present in the water because you added fish flakes. I would get the suggested test kit above and give these articles a read. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/
To do a fishin cycle like your attempting read this.http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306

If you cant find pure ammonnia you could always use fish food like flakes. I thing frozing fish food or shrimp that you buy in a grocery store would work better though.

 

[robbo1987]

ill have a look, the ammonia kit is a liquid one btw. and the flakes where added after the ammonia test. but thanks, i shall give that a read!

 

[erk628]

ill have a look, the ammonia kit is a liquid one btw. and the flakes where added after the ammonia test. but thanks, i shall give that a read!

I would test your water staight from the tap there may be a hint of ammonia present.

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Robbo,

Sorry to hear you lost your goldfish, but you've come to the right place for help.

Unfortunately, goldfish aren't suited to such a small tank at all. They are very messy fish which require adequate filtration, and they can easily out-grow a tank that size. A common goldfish will easily attain a length of 12"+.

As you seem to have found out, a fishless cycle is usually a far more humane method of preparing your tank for fish, and the articles in the Beginner's Resource Centre (linked to above) will help you greatly with understanding how this can be achieved. It would also be well worth reading th article on The Nitrogen Cycle to ensure your understanding of the job the filter actually performs.

The water you have left in the tank from when you had the goldfish won't help the cycle at all. 99+% of the beneficial bacteria live on surfaces, not in the water column. Following on from that, your friend is absolutely correct, the gravel probably does house some of those bacteria, however if its been 6 months since you had any fish in there (7 months less 4 weeks, correct me if I'm wrong there), then any bacteria which was there will be dead a long time ago unless you have been feeding the tank with fish food for the whole time? This also applies to the filter you have acquired unless it has been taken from your friend's tank (with fish in) and put straight into your tank. Perhaps you can give us some more information on the details of this?

All that said, I suspect that you probably have almost no bacteria in the filter or tank (pending further info on the filter) and I'd suggest at this stage that emptying the tank and washing everything is the best course of action. Then proceed with a proper fishless cycle (find out how in the Beginner's Resource Centre).

How long have you been feeding the tank with fish food, and how long has the new filter been in there?

Adding plants is absolutely fine during your fishless cycle, which usually takes anything from 3 weeks to 3 months depending mainly on the hardness of your tap water and how carefully you monitor the cycle (It sounds like a long time but it really is worth it).

When your cycle is finished, adding Neons first isn't usually a good idea. They like a well established, mature tank (running for at least 3 - 6 months), and tend to die off in newly cycled tanks. I will refrain from discussing alternative fish here as I realise this is a lot of information to take in already.

As mentioned already, test-strips aren't very accurate and you would be much better with a liquid re-agent test kit, such as the API Mini Master Test Kit also suggested already.

Testing your tap water for ammonia will also be helpful so you know what to expect in the tank.

May I guess that you were given bad advice from your LFS (Local Fish Shop) when buying the goldfish? Not to worry, we'll see you through to successfully keeping tropicals.

Keep asking questions if you're not sure.

Hope that helps.

Regards

BTT

 

[robbo1987]

I havent been feeding the tank with fish food or anything at all until yesterday, and the filter i dont think has been used for a while but the filters where a bit dirty, so would it be worth me getting clean filter sponges now then? I think ill ask if hes got any rocks or anything he can give me out the tank to help it along though. the new filter has literally only been in a a day as i set it all up yesterday again. there are also a few tiny snails in the tank, will these cause a problem? although if i clean the tank out completely ill assume this will be gotten rid off? how best to clean the tank?

ive just tested the tap water for ammonia and the reading was the same as the tank i think, im finding it hard to compare to the test strip but it seems to be about 0.25

as for the best fish to put in new what are more hardy fish? a betta perhaps?

edit , im also yet to add a heater, is this necasary just yet why im still trying to establish the tank?

 

[robbo1987]

also one more thing, if i use fish food to cycle my tank, how much should i be adding? i would add actual ammonia but i dont think its easy available where i live and not sure what i could use.

 

[robbo1987]

Ok so i found and added some household ammonia this afternoon, and literally added about 3ml and now its gone through the roof like up towards 8, gonna continue having to use strips to test everything else as the master kit i ordered has yet to turn up, but what do i do for now? leave it? or is it worth adding some tetra safe start so that the bacteria etc can start to grow?

 

[Assaye]

You want to maintain levels of about 5ppm of ammonia. I'd empty the tank out and start again, if I were you. It has been suggested that if the levels are too high, you'll get the wrong bacteria growing. I wouldn't risk it.

You need to be testing daily and adding new ammonia when the levels drop down. Keep this up and make a record of the levels of ammonia and nitrite you are getting. ]

Once the ammonia and nitrite are going down to 0 within 12 hours, you know your tank can cope with 5ppm of ammonia in 12 hours, which is MORE than enough to cope with any fish you could fit in a small tank. Give the nitrates a test and make sure they are above zero (if they aren't, keep dosing to 5ppm ammonia until you see the nitrates climbing, but if you have zero on ammonia and nitrite after a spike, there should be nitrates).

Then just keep feeding the filter with 5ppm of ammonia until you get the fish. Wait for the levels to hit zero, do a 90% water change and add fish!

As for which fish too add, IMO cardinal tetras and neon tetras (in fact, most tetras) are too big and active for the tank.

The best fish for a tank of your size would be a betta I know they are big, but their physiology allows them to do well in smaller tanks.

If you want tank mates for your better, try shrimp and snails.

Plant the tank up really heavily, give him a cave and voilá, betta heaven!

If you don't want a betta, try a nicely planted tank with say 4 male guppies or endlers.