New Not Sure Where To Start.

[tonyshadow]

Hello, we have decided to start an aquarium for my daughter, she is 10 years old, none of us has ever had an aquarium before and are really not sure where to start. We went to the pet store, and it seems that thier advice was a little dodgy they were just trying to sell us the most expensive stuff so I thought I should do a little research first.

First off, what is a good size for a starter aquarium, I really don't know what type of fish I want other than no goldfish (my daughter doesn't like them). We are thinking something simple and easy for beginners to start with. Which leads me to my next question, what fish would you reccomend. Finally other than the tank and filter what other equipment do I really need to have. Our budget for equipment is between $100 and $200 with a fish budget of around $20-$30.

Also I have read the section of fish less cycling and thought we would go that route, however is there a way to do it without using ammonia, I am a little nervours to have chemicals in the house as we also have a 2 and 6 year old running around the house.

Thank you.

 

[Ian H]

Well done on looking it up and not being stupid enough to believe the fish store

Goldfish are coldwater fish anyways. Tropical fish are easy to keep and much more attractive (huge selcetion too) You will need:

Tank/stand/lid with lights
Filter
Heater
Gravel (or sand)

generally get the biggest tank you can/afford (doesnt have to be a monster 8ft tank, but something like a 3ft gives you a decent choice of fish to choose from)

Good beginner fish would be platties and guppies (both give birth to live young, always nice to see baby fish swimming in your tank for the first time )

Before we could reccomend some fish though would have to have an idea on the tank size

 

[tappas]

Hello, I am also new here, but have been keeping for around 2 years so I might be able to help you out. First off, let me congradulate you for realizing that pet stores really don't give the best advice when it comes to fish, you have learned that lesson quickly. As for what you will need here are a few suggestions:

Tank - a 29 gallon tank will be a good starter size. You will be limited with your fish selection, but you would still have a few good starter fish that you could choose from.

Filter - if you purchase a kit a filter is usually included, but be careful with this, a lot of times the filter that is included in the kit are not the greatest and very often you can purchase just the tank and a better filter for the same price (or maybe just a few dollars more) I personally would recommend the Aqua Clear 30 (or even the next size up if you want over filtration) for a 29 Gallon tank.

Hood - you will need some sort of hood or cover for your tank as many fish jump and could jump out of the tank if not covered. Also a hood will help prevent spills or other little hands in your case from getting into the tank.

Stand - You will need a good sturdy stand to place your tank onto. You could use an existing table but be sure that it can hold the weight. A 29 gallon tank full of water will weigh about 235 lbs, plus add the weight for your substrate, decor, filter etc. So to be safe you would want a structure that can hold around 250 or so pounds.

Heater and themometer - As you know you don't want goldfish, you will definately need to have a heater and a thermometer. Stay clear of the stick on thermometers as they are not really accurate, go with a floating or digital themometer. As for a heater you should be good with a 150 watt or 200 watt heater.

Decor and substrate - You will need some sort of decor (your daughter will probably want the most input here), the type of decor, i.e natural or themed, really doesn't matter, what does matter is you will want decor that offers the fish hiding spaces and swim through spaces. Also, plants (live or artificial) help here with the hiding places. Substrate can vary as well, there is gravel, rocks, sand, plant substrate, it all comes down to choice. Gravel is the most commonly avalilable at pet stores, followed by rock and plant substrate. Sand you can get from pet stores but it is usually much more expensive and all you really need is play sand (silica sand, the stuff they use in sand boxes - just make sure you rinse it really really well). Regardless of your substrate you will need a gravel vac to clean it. This is espically important with gravel as food and other waste can get stuck into the gravel. If you go with sand the dirt tends to stay on top, but you will still need to suck it off the surface. Also with sand you will need to stir it about once a week to prevent toxic air pockets from forming. This is not that difficult of a job, just use your fingers to sift the sand up.

Lighting - If you purchase a hood lighting is usually built in, but if you go for a plan glass lid you will need to purchase a light fixture. Lighting is important for the fish and also if you have live plants. If you go for live plants post in the plants section for the type of lights you will need.

Liquid test kit - This is vital in order to maintain a healthy tank, and also during cycling. Go with liquid test kits, they are more accurate, and although the cost seems higher they are actually cheaper in the long run.

Other bits and bobs - As already mentioned a gravel vac and thermometer are essential. Additionally, you will want to get water conditioner (that removes both chlorine and chloramine at a minimum, there are also brands that remove heavy metals, this is suggested if you have a high amount of metals in your tap water), food that is approiate for your type of fish (of course)and finally an airstone and pump. An airstone and pump is not a necessity, but it can help move the water around the tank and is a good decoration.

Fish - a good starter fish that would work in a 29 gallon tank would be white cloud minnows, guppies, zebra danio, cherry barbs, harlequin rasboras. However it should be mentioned that generally these are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups of around 6. Also, all the fish mentioned above can live togethor so you could have 2 groups of 6 if you choose to have more than one type.

That should be enough to get you started. You have already mentioned fish less cycling, a good choice, you can do it with out ammonia, you could use fish food, or a raw shrimp, but pure ammonia gives you the most control during cycling.

Best of Luck.

 

[tonyshadow]

Thanks to both of you for the quick reply. We were looking at a 29 gallon tank kit at the store, we thought that would be a good size to start with, big enough for a few fish, but not too big for my daughter to handel. While looking at the store my daughter seemed to like the guppies and mollies the best so thinking of going with those. Whould they be ok togethor and how many of each could we have. The kit we were looking at included a hood and light (not sure if if would be strong enough for live plants though), a filter I believe it was aquaclear brand, as well as a 150 watt heater (not sure of the brand), it was around $150 so I think that is a good deal, but really couldn't say for sure.

Thanks again.

 

[Ian H]

mollies are brackish fish really and do better with a bit of salt which you dont want in your tropical tank as some fish can't handle it.

Have a look at platties, they come in all sorts of colours and look very similar

With both you want to get a ratio of at least 2 females to 1 male, otherwise the males can/will fight or stress out the only female. Sadly its the males that are pretty with guppies (males are the ones with the big colourful tails, females are quite boring looking really without the big fancy tail)
I've replied to your post in the planted section, any light will be fine for what i suggested (loads of light is not always good anyways because then the plants need more things which you would have to add)

You may be better looking at second hand items, alot of people are selling tanks recently so you could have a real bargain. Not only that but you could mix and match to items you want. You want the best filter you can afford, Internal filters are ok but get clogged easily and need cleaning out a fair bit. External filters are the best kind but that all depends on budget and tank size

 

[tonyshadow]

Oops, my wife just informed me it was Platys that she liked, mickey mouse platys, sorry about that. So will those be good with guppies?

Also here is a link to the kit we were looking at, I thought it was Aqua Clear but it was Aqueon.

http/www.thetankaquariums.com/product_info.php?products_id=7

 

[Ian H]

yeah platties will be fine micky mouse platties are just a platty crossed with a sword tail (both platties from what i can gather, just sword tails have....well a sword like tail also grow a bit bigger, but not huge)

Theres no stand with that by the looks of it. For the money i would either buy bits seperate or go second hand

You can always make a stand if your handy with DIY, sadly you cant really use household furniture as its not normally strong enough to support the weight for so long.

 

[tonyshadow]

I was thinking that for the stand we could use a table we have. It was made by my nephew in shop class, it is essentially a giant block of concreate. For some strange reason he thought we would love to have a concrete end table. The base is solid poued concrete, and the top is a separate peice of concreate that has been attached using bolts and glue of some sort. I think it will be big enough to hold a 29 gallon tank, will have to remeasure, but I am sure it would be strong enough, and this way we can finally use it

 

[boeingtech]

Just a quick note to add don't put load's of fish in at once remember to slowly add fish other wise all your hard work you would have done cycling your tank will be for no good. Good luck it is quite scary starting up a new tank but there is load's of brilliant advice on here for you.

 

[Ian H]

sounds like it could do it

 

[tonyshadow]

Just a quick note to add don't put load's of fish in at once remember to slowly add fish other wise all your hard work you would have done cycling your tank will be for no good. Good luck it is quite scary starting up a new tank but there is load's of brilliant advice on here for you

I thought that was the point of doing a fish less cycle, so that you could add all the fish at once at the end. Did I mis understand something in the article?

sounds like it could do it

Yeah I figured a giant concrete block would do the trick, and just remasured it, definately large enough to accomidate a 29 gallon tank, but that would be the largest we could go if we want to use it.

 

[boeingtech]

no with any fish tank even well established tank's if you were to add load's of fish at once the good bacteria which keep's your tank water nice and healthy for your fish will just crash causing a mini cycle setting you back to nearly square one and having to do big water change's until your stat's are back to normal, but somebody more experienced on here might be able to explain more

 

[tappas]

You did not mis read the article, that is exactly the point of doing a fishless cycle. Now there are some fish that you still won't be able to add immediately following a fishless cycle, only because they require a really mature filter, one example is neon tetras, but such fish are a little more difficult to keep and you probably won't be keeping to start off with any way. With your choices of guppies and platys you would be fine to add the entire stock following the completion of the fishless cycle. But just as far warning, a fishless cycle can take on average 2-3 months to complete, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. If you can get a hold of some mature media (from a filter that has been up and running for a while) that will speed things up along nicely.

Also the tank that you picked will be fine, I personally am not a fan of the Aqueon filters, but they do the job. As already mentioned, price the parts separately you might be able to do it cheaper than the kit if you purchase separately. Also, the online prices are usually better than the store prices.

 

[Ian H]

no with any fish tank even well established tank's if you were to add load's of fish at once the good bacteria which keep's your tank water nice and healthy for your fish will just crash causing a mini cycle setting you back to nearly square one and having to do big water change's until your stat's are back to normal, but somebody more experienced on here might be able to explain more

After a fishless cycle you will have just as much if not more bacteria than an established tank. An established tank only has enough bacteria it needs due to a set amount of ammonia produced (it's going to be a stable amount if you dont add any more fish, none die ect) With a fishless cycle your adding 5ppm of ammonia constantly, plenty of ammonia to feed the bacteria so you end up with loads

This is why in an established tank you can some times have cloudy spells (bacterial blooms) due to un-noticed dead fish, plants ect. Generally you have enough bacteria to over come this though but a water change is still adviced (along with removing the cause!)

Another note on the cycle, dont add live plants until after the cycle. They will feed on the ammonia

 

[tappas]

After a fishless cycle you will have just as much if not more bacteria than an established tank. An established tank only has enough bacteria it needs due to a set amount of ammonia produced (it's going to be a stable amount if you dont add any more fish, none die ect) With a fishless cycle your adding 5ppm of ammonia constantly, plenty of ammonia to feed the bacteria so you end up with loads

Very well said. That is one of the reasons why I did a fishless cycle, you can fully stock right away.