New Nano Reef Keeper....?

[undautripedwar]

Hi, I recently posted on the tropical chat board about getting back in to fish keeping after a house move. I was planning on getting a tank and keeping tropicals like I have done for about 4 years now, but recently I've been migrating south to the nano reef section of the forum (dangerous indeed!)

I'm wondering if now is the time to take the plunge and go marine, something I've been hoping to do for quite some time. It will obviously take a lot of time and reseach, but the first issue would be weather I could get a good tank for it.

I currently see three options tank wise, and I was hoping I could get some advice on each of the three as to which would be most suitible for a first time reef keeper? I think its worth noting now that it will initially be a FOWLR tank, with a possible (probably) upgrade in future to corals, and thus lighting will be a big issue.

The three tanks that have caught my eye for this idea are

1. Orca TL-550 Nano Reef; stated at 128 ltrs or 34 us gallons. Obviously the advantage of being a 'plug and play system' - at £275 inc. delivery
http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html

2. Fluval Osaka 155; ~40gal, not a strictly marine tank, but very stylish, cabinet for possible sump - at £350 inc. delivery
http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078

3. Custom ND aquatics tank; 24 x 18 x 18 (34 gal) including sump, pipework and cabinet- £324 inc. delivery


Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

 

[plutosmate]

undautripedwar,

Welcome to the Marine core buddy (lol), I have a Orca TL450, my only thoughts (as per many here with the same unit) it is a very nice unit, good to look at, but the stock skimmer sucks. For an extra 15 notes (thanks ebay) you can change the stock skimmer for something that actually works and not chuck micro bubbles into the main tank.

The other unit, no doubt someone else has this unit and will comment.
Hope this helps.

Good luck in your choice.

 

[h_ceri]

undautripedwar,

Welcome to the Marine core buddy (lol), I have a Orca TL450, my only thoughts (as per many here with the same unit) it is a very nice unit, good to look at, but the stock skimmer sucks. For an extra 15 notes (thanks ebay) you can change the stock skimmer for something that actually works and not chuck micro bubbles into the main tank.

The other unit, no doubt someone else has this unit and will comment.
Hope this helps.

Good luck in your choice.

Hi, thanks for your reply

Well i've been looking through and I've already discounted the fluval, as I don't particularly like the open top. Which leaves me with a plug and play option (D+D 24 gal, or orca TL 4/550) vs a custom.

I've been checking the specs on the TL550 and the pump it comes with seems very underpowered as its only 720lph (or 194gph), which gives only ~6x turnover. Would the benefit of a sump be worth the extra money? The custom however wouldn't include lighting which will be a whole other issue!

 

[xxBarneyxx]

A sump is definetly worth it, gives you more water volume, hides all the kit and gives you a lot of options.
What kind of budget do you have and are you planning on keeping just fish or fish and corals?

Both the orca and D&D systems are good for getting started but if you are anything like me it wont be long until you want to pull them apart and fit your own equipment to them.

Personally I have the smaller version of this orca tank and while I do like it and it was good for getting started (and relatively cheap) if I had the space for a custom tank I would have gone for it.

Basically:
The D&D and Orca pro's:
Cheaper
Easy to setup
Pretty to look at

The D&D and Orca con's:
Limited/cheap equipment
Limited upgrade options
You will most likely have to buy at least some additional equipment (a better powerhead for example).

Custom setup Pro's:
Much better choice of equipment
More options for upgrading later on
Livestock will not be limited by your equipment choices (ie you can get better lighting, etc from the start and wont be trying to cram it into spaces that where not designed for it).
You can get the equipment you WANT right from the start

Custom setup con's:
It will cost more.
You might not get a tank that looks quite as pretty as the D&D or Orca systems.
If you are just planning on keeping a few soft corals you probably wont need more equipment then comes with the orca or D&D.

 

[undautripedwar]

A sump is definetly worth it, gives you more water volume, hides all the kit and gives you a lot of options.
What kind of budget do you have and are you planning on keeping just fish or fish and corals?

Both the orca and D&D systems are good for getting started but if you are anything like me it wont be long until you want to pull them apart and fit your own equipment to them.

Personally I have the smaller version of this orca tank and while I do like it and it was good for getting started (and relatively cheap) if I had the space for a custom tank I would have gone for it.

Basically:
The D&D and Orca pro's:
Cheaper
Easy to setup
Pretty to look at

The D&D and Orca con's:
Limited/cheap equipment
Limited upgrade options
You will most likely have to buy at least some additional equipment (a better powerhead for example).

Custom setup Pro's:
Much better choice of equipment
More options for upgrading later on
Livestock will not be limited by your equipment choices (ie you can get better lighting, etc from the start and wont be trying to cram it into spaces that where not designed for it).
You can get the equipment you WANT right from the start

Custom setup con's:
It will cost more.
You might not get a tank that looks quite as pretty as the D&D or Orca systems.
If you are just planning on keeping a few soft corals you probably wont need more equipment then comes with the orca or D&D.

Thanks for the great reply!

It will initially be a fish only with live rock tank, as I don't want to rush in to corals etc, but they will be definately on the list for the future, so lighting will be a concern (if not now then eventually). Both the custom and larger orca cube are within budget, even with necessary upgrades. As lighting will be a concern in the future the ease of upgrade of lighting in the cube will be important, is there room to install another PC tube in the hood?

My own leanings at the moment are to the cube simply because it's the simplest for a complete marine novice and I don't plan on keeping anything other than soft corals (at present....). The upgrade limitations are a bit of a concern though, lighting and filtration wise!

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I'm afraid I cant say if you can or cant add an extra tube to the D&D or the larger orca as I haven't had a good look at them. In the smaller Orca I could possibly remove the two small power compacts and replace them with 3 larger ones but it would be a very tight fit and heat might then be an issue.

I initally had planned to go FOWLR as well but coral keeping (at least for a lot of soft corals) is no more difficult then fowlr so dont expect it to stay as fowlr for long if you have any interest in corals at all

If you go with the D&D or Orca and later on want to get some hard corals (which require much higher lighting) then worst case scenario is that you remove the hood and get a clip on MH light or a pendent of some sort. I have seen some people modify the top of the tank to raise the hood up higher and give more space to add lights.

With regards to filtration with the right amount of liverock and decent water circulation both plug and play tanks are fine for most of your common soft corals and possibly a select few low light hard corals (I have been keeping a hammer coral under Power Compacts for a good 5 or 6 months now and it is growing really well so far).

 

[undautripedwar]

I'm afraid I cant say if you can or cant add an extra tube to the D&D or the larger orca as I haven't had a good look at them. In the smaller Orca I could possibly remove the two small power compacts and replace them with 3 larger ones but it would be a very tight fit and heat might then be an issue.

I initally had planned to go FOWLR as well but coral keeping (at least for a lot of soft corals) is no more difficult then fowlr so dont expect it to stay as fowlr for long if you have any interest in corals at all

If you go with the D&D or Orca and later on want to get some hard corals (which require much higher lighting) then worst case scenario is that you remove the hood and get a clip on MH light or a pendent of some sort. I have seen some people modify the top of the tank to raise the hood up higher and give more space to add lights.

With regards to filtration with the right amount of liverock and decent water circulation both plug and play tanks are fine for most of your common soft corals and possibly a select few low light hard corals (I have been keeping a hammer coral under Power Compacts for a good 5 or 6 months now and it is growing really well so far).

Lighting wise, I'd always considered getting a few power compacts, or even an arcadia marine luminaire (if I didn't go and buy a 'plug and play'), but I just found a metal halide pendant on rocketaquatics.co.uk which has 1x 150W halide lamp and 2 x 27w actinic tubes for £190

http/www.rocketaquatics.co.uk/baquavital...bes-p-1100.html

is this as good a deal as it seems? having only been recently tempted to the marine side of things I have next to no knowledge on metal halides.

Also, I'd always considered using live rock as my only source of filtration. But looking at the same websites "stock marine tanks" they have juwel and rena tanks etc "marine ready" with external filters... As I currently have a big external sitting around doing nothing, would there be any harm in using this as an extra source of filtration, maybe filling it with live rock rubble and also using it for a little bit of mechanical filtration?

I understand what your saying about keeping corals also, I can't see myself being happy with a FOWLR tank too long!

Thanks for your replies everyone, if I have any chance of succeeding with this project it will mainly be due to all the advice gathered from this forum!

 

[xxBarneyxx]

That unit looks pretty good to me but I'm no expert on MH units either.

You can use your external filter as well. There is some debate over using "traditional" filter media such as bio-balls/rings and foam pads. Some people say they build up too much detris and "cycle the ammonia and nitrite too quickly so cause too much nitrate" (I think thats the arguement anyway, have never really understood why its an issue tbh).

Personally I dont agree with this view point. For a reef system I wouldn't traditional mechnical filtration alone (as there is no way to cycle/remove nitrate) but I would use it as you have suggested. IE fill it with live rock rubble and maybe use the last media chamber for chemical filtration like phosphate/nitrate remover, alongside liverock in the display tank as the main form of filtration.

If you use it as a mechinical filter as well (ie foam pads) you need to make sure these are cleaned out on a regular (weekly) basis. Unlike FW setups you aren't to worried about the biological filtration that grows on the foam media so feel free to blast it under a tap to get it completely clean.

Personally on my nano I dont have any mechnical filtration (I have a shed load of liverock and lr rubble though). Most of the debris in the tank finds its way into the back chambers and I use a gravel vac in there every so often to get it out. I don't even do that very often though and my nitrates still stay under 3ppm (I think mainly due to low bio load and weekly water changes with RO water).

 

[h_ceri]

That unit looks pretty good to me but I'm no expert on MH units either.

You can use your external filter as well. There is some debate over using "traditional" filter media such as bio-balls/rings and foam pads. Some people say they build up too much detris and "cycle the ammonia and nitrite too quickly so cause too much nitrate" (I think thats the arguement anyway, have never really understood why its an issue tbh).

Personally I dont agree with this view point. For a reef system I wouldn't traditional mechnical filtration alone (as there is no way to cycle/remove nitrate) but I would use it as you have suggested. IE fill it with live rock rubble and maybe use the last media chamber for chemical filtration like phosphate/nitrate remover, alongside liverock in the display tank as the main form of filtration.

If you use it as a mechinical filter as well (ie foam pads) you need to make sure these are cleaned out on a regular (weekly) basis. Unlike FW setups you aren't to worried about the biological filtration that grows on the foam media so feel free to blast it under a tap to get it completely clean.

Personally on my nano I dont have any mechnical filtration (I have a shed load of liverock and lr rubble though). Most of the debris in the tank finds its way into the back chambers and I use a gravel vac in there every so often to get it out. I don't even do that very often though and my nitrates still stay under 3ppm (I think mainly due to low bio load and weekly water changes with RO water).

That's good news about the external, it would be a waste to have it sitting around doing nothing. I will probably do as suggested, fill the chambers with live rock rubble and then a little bit of mechanical. I will then take out the bioballs and rings etc that come with it.

The price of the metal halide lights has really surprised me, I'm starting to think it may be better to put my own system together; a custom or off the shelf glass tank, the halide lighting, and then rely on the live rock as filtration inside the tank (and in the external filter). I think the extra lighting will open up a lot more options, and this system seems better to me than an off the shelf plug and play like the orca.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Yeah its much better to get a good set up from the start then having to upgrade and modify everything as you go. For the most part you cant go wrong with having a MH light (most soft corals will be just as happy in high light as in lower light) and as you said it does give you a lot more options when it comes to stocking.

If it was me i would have a look for a "reef ready" tank with a sump. Get a 75w or 150w MH, one or two good powerheads, a skimmer, a heater and a return pump for the sump and your ready to roll (well you need salt, LR, test kits, ro water, etc, etc but thats it for the "hardware").

 

[fishstick]

Hi, I recently posted on the tropical chat board about getting back in to fish keeping after a house move. I was planning on getting a tank and keeping tropicals like I have done for about 4 years now, but recently I've been migrating south to the nano reef section of the forum (dangerous indeed!)

I'm wondering if now is the time to take the plunge and go marine, something I've been hoping to do for quite some time. It will obviously take a lot of time and reseach, but the first issue would be weather I could get a good tank for it.

I currently see three options tank wise, and I was hoping I could get some advice on each of the three as to which would be most suitible for a first time reef keeper? I think its worth noting now that it will initially be a FOWLR tank, with a possible (probably) upgrade in future to corals, and thus lighting will be a big issue.

The three tanks that have caught my eye for this idea are

1. Orca TL-550 Nano Reef; stated at 128 ltrs or 34 us gallons. Obviously the advantage of being a 'plug and play system' - at £275 inc. delivery
[URL="http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html"]http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html[/URL]



2. Fluval Osaka 155; ~40gal, not a strictly marine tank, but very stylish, cabinet for possible sump - at £350 inc. delivery
[URL="http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078"]http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078[/URL]

3. Custom ND aquatics tank; 24 x 18 x 18 (34 gal) including sump, pipework and cabinet- £324 inc. delivery


Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Hi Undautrip. Have you looked at Betta lifespace aquariums?

 

[h_ceri]

Hi, I recently posted on the tropical chat board about getting back in to fish keeping after a house move. I was planning on getting a tank and keeping tropicals like I have done for about 4 years now, but recently I've been migrating south to the nano reef section of the forum (dangerous indeed!)

I'm wondering if now is the time to take the plunge and go marine, something I've been hoping to do for quite some time. It will obviously take a lot of time and reseach, but the first issue would be weather I could get a good tank for it.

I currently see three options tank wise, and I was hoping I could get some advice on each of the three as to which would be most suitible for a first time reef keeper? I think its worth noting now that it will initially be a FOWLR tank, with a possible (probably) upgrade in future to corals, and thus lighting will be a big issue.

The three tanks that have caught my eye for this idea are

1. Orca TL-550 Nano Reef; stated at 128 ltrs or 34 us gallons. Obviously the advantage of being a 'plug and play system' - at £275 inc. delivery
[URL="http/"http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html""]http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html[/URL]



2. Fluval Osaka 155; ~40gal, not a strictly marine tank, but very stylish, cabinet for possible sump - at £350 inc. delivery
[URL="http/"http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078""]http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078[/URL]

3. Custom ND aquatics tank; 24 x 18 x 18 (34 gal) including sump, pipework and cabinet- £324 inc. delivery


Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Hi Undautrip. Have you looked at Betta lifespace aquariums?

Hi

To be honest I hadn't, but I just had a quick look and even the smallest size is a bit too big at 65gal (it's going to be upstairs) - but they are really lovely systems.

I just got a quote from Nd aquatics that;

30x18x18 marine fish tank (6mm glass,cover glasses,blue painted backgrounds,weir,holes,polystyrene,cabinet 30" high,sump,pipework,hood (open or flat)) will cost 294 ponds + delivery 70 pounds.

Which seems like a good deal to me too. Ah the choices! I'm not sure joining the marine forums was such a good idea - it's already addictive and this is just the research!

 

[fishstick]

Hi, I recently posted on the tropical chat board about getting back in to fish keeping after a house move. I was planning on getting a tank and keeping tropicals like I have done for about 4 years now, but recently I've been migrating south to the nano reef section of the forum (dangerous indeed!)

I'm wondering if now is the time to take the plunge and go marine, something I've been hoping to do for quite some time. It will obviously take a lot of time and reseach, but the first issue would be weather I could get a good tank for it.

I currently see three options tank wise, and I was hoping I could get some advice on each of the three as to which would be most suitible for a first time reef keeper? I think its worth noting now that it will initially be a FOWLR tank, with a possible (probably) upgrade in future to corals, and thus lighting will be a big issue.

The three tanks that have caught my eye for this idea are

1. Orca TL-550 Nano Reef; stated at 128 ltrs or 34 us gallons. Obviously the advantage of being a 'plug and play system' - at £275 inc. delivery
<a href="http/"http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html"" target="_blank"><a href="http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html" target="_blank">http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...inet-p-871.html</a></a>



2. Fluval Osaka 155; ~40gal, not a strictly marine tank, but very stylish, cabinet for possible sump - at £350 inc. delivery
<a href="http/"http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078"" target="_blank"><a href="http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078" target="_blank">http/www.aquariumsdelivered.co.uk/catalo...roducts_id=2078</a></a>

3. Custom ND aquatics tank; 24 x 18 x 18 (34 gal) including sump, pipework and cabinet- £324 inc. delivery


Any advice or other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Hi Undautrip. Have you looked at Betta lifespace aquariums?

Hi

To be honest I hadn't, but I just had a quick look and even the smallest size is a bit too big at 65gal (it's going to be upstairs) - but they are really lovely systems.

I just got a quote from Nd aquatics that;

30x18x18 marine fish tank (6mm glass,cover glasses,blue painted backgrounds,weir,holes,polystyrene,cabinet 30" high,sump,pipework,hood (open or flat)) will cost 294 ponds + delivery 70 pounds.

Which seems like a good deal to me too. Ah the choices! I'm not sure joining the marine forums was such a good idea - it's already addictive and this is just the research!

I know, too much choice but the forums really are helpful - good luck!

 

[h_ceri]

Sorry, posted this with an old account once I remembered my old password.