New Nano, House Move, High Nitrates From Tap

[sokoleo]

Hi guys, so I'm new here but hoping for some advice, I'll try not to waffle on as I'm prone to! There's so many forums here I thought this would be the best...
 
My current set up is a 45 litre, 2 internal filters, a couple of plants not doing too well, and 2 guppies and 1 tiny platy. 
http/imgur.com/a/LlbCm
 
So I'm in the process of moving house and not loving my set up at the moment. Over the last 6 months I've lost a couple of fish due to general decline I think, and now with just the 3 I wanted to downsize.
Strictly speaking I know nano's aren't for fish-keeping. But my new tank is a 30 litre and I hoped my 2 guppies would be ok in it? (My platy is seriously tiny, he was born with me a couple of years ago but still >2cm in total). 
 
This is my new tank just having a leak-test at the moment.
http/imgur.com/vZUP89w
 
So my main question is....with my 2 filters running at the moment - am I right in assuming once this is scaped and filled (will try and use as much existing water as possible), that is is cycled and ready to go??
 
My big problem is high nitrates in tap water, 40+ means 40-80ppm in my tank. In my existing tank it creates quite a bit of brown algae(diatoms?), on decorations/glass etc. My local RO is about a 40 mile round trip away so I will struggle.... Any other ideas? My filter currently has a bit of Sponge, a bit of Purigen and a bit of Matrix (as much as will fit in a Fluval U1!).
 
Does this all sound ok to you guys? What could I do differently that means this set up will be a bit more eye-pleasing, less algae-y and most importantly ok for my tiny fish?
 
Are shrimps worth adding or would this be asking a lot of my stocking level?
 
Thanks,
Sokoleo 
(hope the pictures work)

 

[Kelly-Jo]

You could use part distilled water to reduce the level of nitrates in the water? Adding plants may help too.
 
Do you know if you can contact your local water provider about the level of nitrates in the water? That is quite a high level and can be harmful to your health. I can't remember what the legal limit of nitrates in tap water is though.

 

 

[sokoleo]

Hi, the UK limit is 50 ppm

Is there another way than buying bottled water? I don't have a still and RO provider is 40 miles away

 
My other problem is that my pH is about 8.0-8.2....

 

[Kelly-Jo]

Personally I'd steer away from chemicals that lower pH as in my experience it makes the pH so variable and that's actually a bigger problem for the fish than a steady high pH.
 
You could try Indian Almond Leaves if you don't mind a bit of brown colouring to the water (makes the tank look more natural sometimes). They tend to lower the pH a bit.

 

[StevenF]

 
 
My local RO is about a 40 mile round trip away so I will struggle.... Any other ideas? 

You could install a small RO system under the kitchen sink.  It would produce enough clean water to satisfy your drinking, and food preparation needs.  It would also generate enough water  per week to fill the tank. Although with that said many of these systems only come with 3 to 5 gallon storage tank.  You would need to install a larger storage tank or set some water aside in a barrel or some sort of container during the week.  That would insture enough water is available to fill the tank or do the once per week 50% water change.    Once installed you would have safe drinking water without having to buy it at a store 40 miles away.  For your aquarium an alternative to RO water is to collect rain water from your house roof.  This might require a large storage tank to insure enough water during dryer months and wouldn't address drinking water concerns.
 
Putting plants in the tank would help with the nitrates but with levels this high you would need to have rapid plant growth the soak it all up.  That would mean fertilizer and bright lights and maybe CO2 injection.  If you install a RO systems you wouldn't need rapid plant growth.  However RO water would not support plant growth due to the lack of nutrients in it.  A planted RO tank will need to be fertilized.  I have a tank filled with RO and fertilize with SeaChem Flourish Complete. and I have been getting decent plant growth that most of the time will keep up with the fish production of nitrates.  
 
I think installing a RO system is your best choice but before you do that you need to know as much as possible about your water.  You should find out what the PH, GH, KH and iron levles are.  RO systems do not like high iron levels.  Look on line for the water quality report for your new address. 
 
 Adding shrimp to the tank is a good idea.  But would only keep up with the algae feeding on the fish waist. With high nitrate water they would probably not keep up with algae. cherry shrimp are generally easy to find and are available in yellow, red, blue and black varieties.    Shrimp and snail have a very small impact on the bioload of the tank.
 
I would add at least one Nerite snail would also help clean the glass of the tank.  If one is not enough get a second Nerite snail but of a different species (different shell color pattern).  That would minimize or eliminate eggs deposited on the glass.  Nerite eggs will not hatch in a fresh water aquarium.  Nerites need brackish water for the eggs to hatch.
 
 Cherry shrimp will bread in fresh water tank.  If you don't want large numbers of shrimp put Amano shrimp in the tank.  They, like Nerites, need brackish water to bread.  RO water is too pure for shrimp and snails.  Note enough calcium and magnesium in the water.  Adding a couple of decorative snail or sea shells to the aquarium would eliminate that problem.  I also found in my tank a iodine supplement was necessary for the shrimp.
 
 
 
What is it with UK water?  High nitrates seems to be a common problem over there.

 

[AbbeysDad]

You really don't want or need an RO system for a fresh water aquarium. What you need is a more simple nitrate filter for your kitchen sink. This system will filter nitrates from your source water and is rechargeable with salt water:
Check out "Crystal Quest Countertop Replaceable Double Nitrate Water Filter System on Amazon as one example.....and there are other inline nitrate filter options you might explore.

 

[NickAu]

An RO system is great if you don't have to pay for water.  If you do not have to pay or dont care about the bill, Study up on it a bit a few members here can help you, get RO filter make the water and remineralize it to suit the live stock, You wont regret it and as far as fish oh boy have you got some choices.
 

 
Depending on the model, most RO filter systems* will discharge 4 to 20 gallons (15.1 L to 75.7 L) of backwash water for every gallon of filtered water it produces.

http/www.allianceforwaterefficiency.org/RO_Discharge_Introduction.aspx?terms=alternate+water+source
 

 
My big problem is high nitrates in tap water, 40+ means 40-80ppm in my tank.
Are shrimps worth adding

I read some place that Nitrates should be less than 20ppm, Above 20ppm RCS are susceptible to disease and infertility.

 

[StevenF]

 
Quote

 
Depending on the model, most RO filter systems* will discharge 4 to 20 gallons (15.1 L to 75.7 L) of backwash water for every gallon of filtered water it produces.

http/www.alliancef...te water sourc

 
from this site:http/optipurewater.com/blog/royseibert/do-reverse-osmosis-systems-waste-water

 
 
For a properly designed and efficient RO system, this may be one-to-three gallons of water for every gallon of pure water produced.

MY system, the last time I checked, was close to 1 gallon for every gallon produced.  Also a typical 3 gallon tank is sufficient water to meet the drinking water needs of a typically sized family per day.  So brine discharge plus drinkjing water is on the order of 9 to 20  gallons per day for drinking water abd fiid prepopration.  A 7 gallon aquarium would push that up a bit but not significantly.  Furthermore  one flush of the toilet is about 1 gallon of water.  1 person taking a shower once per day will consume many times the brine discharge of of a RO system.  High water bills ar not caused by RO systems.  Showers, washing the car and cloths, dishes and watering the lawn consumes that vast majority of the water people pay for.  An RO system would not significantly increase the water bill.

 

[sokoleo]

Hi, Thank you for all replies
 
I have the API test kit, but how do i now test for GH/KH etc? 
 
Does the RO system on my tap mean the same result for my fish as getting some from the aquarist? I could stockpile once a month rather than spending hundreds on a system plus cartridges etc. How long does RO last for when it's stood?
 
Do the nitrate sponges do any good? Or Seachem Denitrate? Couldn't guarantee my flow was >50gal or whatever it stipulates.
 
Thanks x

 

[StevenF]

 
I have the API test kit, but how do i now test for GH/KH etc? 
 
Does the RO system on my tap mean the same result for my fish as getting some from the aquarist? I could stockpile once a month rather than spending hundreds on a system plus cartridges etc. How long does RO last for when it's stood?

GH (general hardness and KH (alkalinity) are different test the the API test kit doesn't include.  However these values might be listed in the utilities  water quality report for your new address on line.  GH and KH can be used to determine if you are cycling enough water weekly or to monitor Tap water quality .
 
 It can also be used to monitor the output of a RO system.  If the level starts rising the RO membrane may need to be changed.   Generally I need to change the RO filter about once every 2 years.  RO systems also have sediment and carbon filters which I replaced about ever  6 months. The GH level for water from  my RO system is about 20-30ppm.  I would expect the same for RO water you buy if they maintain their system correctly..  RO water will not go bad if it is stored and its GH, KH and nitrate values should not change when stored.  

 

[sokoleo]

Thank you Fishaholic that's good info. 
This is the table of info from my water company
http/imgur.com/a/TaTqS
 
Lower nitrates than I currently get (27), still not sure about the GH/KH from this (although it says my water is hard). I'm thinking of stockpiling a good supply of RO and just doing 50:50 tap and RO on water changes?
 
If I take all the ornaments/some substrate etc. with me for bacteria..am I introducing the algae to my new tank that I'm so badly trying to eradicate?

 

[StevenF]

 
osted 03 August 2016 - 08:21 PM

Thank you Fishaholic that's good info. 
This is the table of info from my water company
http/imgur.com/a/TaTqS
 
Lower nitrates than I currently get (27), still not sure about the GH/KH from this (although it says my water is hard). I'm thinking of stockpiling a good supply of RO and just doing 50:50 tap and RO on water changes?  
 
 

 
KH is not listing the photo you provided.  Although at this point it may not be critical to know it.  GH is also not listed but conductivity is and  can be converted to TDS (Total desolved Solids).  TDS is similar to GH but a little different and still helpful.  Your TDS looks like 160ppm  which is hard water.  
 
An RO system should work well with this water.  Stocking RO water and mixing it 50-50 with tap Is OK.
 

 
 
If I take all the ornaments/some substrate etc. with me for bacteria..am I introducing the algae to my new tank that I'm so badly trying to eradicate?

All it takes is one algae cell getting in the aquarium with ideal water conditions to get algae bloom.  Microscopic algae cells can be on ornaments and substrate as well as particles floating int the air.  Since Algae particles are floating in the air all aquariums will get contaminated with Algae eventually.  So if you have an algae issue right now you might try sterilizing everything before putting it in the new aquarium.  But after a few months Algae will get in.  
 
The key difficulty in this hobby is to find a correct mix af nutrients and  lighting that will not encourage algae growth.  Some people do it by ensuring the water has limited amounts of some nutrients.  Others make sure the have sufficient levels of all nutrients for plants (Estimative index).  Many people do it without  have any idea how they do it. 

 

[sokoleo]

Hi Fishaholic, I appreciate you taking the time to look at my water readings and offer help, thanks.
I have acquired 25l of RO water and hope in my next weekly water change to mix maybe 40:60 with normal tap water. 
Just done a load of tests on tap/RO/tank and what is most worrying is my pH in my tank (8.2-8.4). I hope that having tested the new RO water and it reading 6.8 we can begin to bring this down, 10% at a time. This is all before the new tank set up (which currently just has newly washed gravel in it!).
I am obviously therefore going to bring with me algae from my old tank...what with the existing filter, heater, decorations and as much water as I can transport... it is all going to happen all over again. Amano shrimp may be the next port of call! 
So many issues but thankfully I am on a holiday from work at the moment and have you helpful people advising me on here.
Thanks