New Member, Big Freshwater Tank And "temporary" Saltwater

great tanks, they do look superb,

like others i feel tht the goldifhs are an issue and please try to stop feeding them that, but besides that point... i feel worried for your bass, clown knife and tiger because i was watching videos on youtube last night and there are a few videos of RTC's your size eating similar sized fish there is one eating an even bigger clown knife. see Here.

DA
 
great tanks, they do look superb,

like others i feel tht the goldifhs are an issue and please try to stop feeding them that, but besides that point... i feel worried for your bass, clown knife and tiger because i was watching videos on youtube last night and there are a few videos of RTC's your size eating similar sized fish there is one eating an even bigger clown knife. see Here.

DA

Perhaps I should make and post a Youtube video of my tank to calm your worries? lol.

Although I appreciate anyone's input, I'm not here to ask questions or get suggestions about freshwater... what I really want to discuss is saltwater. I have a harder time with them, and they sure don't eat goldfish! lol

Andywg - I read through your old posts and saw you like to discuss saltwater. Perhaps you could take a look at a topic I posted about my Majestic angel in the saltwater chat and offer any suggestions you may have there?
 
I'm not here to ask questions or get suggestions about freshwater...
Well, this is a forum and there will be people posting their opinions, whether you asked for them or not. I really think that you should seriously consider changing the diet of your fish. Yes, they have been fine for 6 years, but these monster fish can live double, if not more than that. They have a long way to go and I hope that you consider their lasting health.

I suggest you reading up on the feeder fish post, given to you before by Andy.
 
Now that I know you raise the goldfish, that is not nearly as bad as buying from a store. Still, there are problems that can turn up after a some years. Even though there aren't any now, it would be wise to vary the diet a bit. I didn't suggest just going straight to dead food, but maybe you can try to find another source of feeders. Convict cichlids breed very rapidly, and they would be a good investment for feeders. Since you live in Texas, you may be able to get some sunfish or something to throw in there. You probably would want to quarantine any wild caught fish as they could introduce disease, so many people usually advise against it. You are going to start needing much larger feeders than small goldfish soon.
I'm really glad that you are looking to take responsibility for a full grown red tail, and I hope you follow through.

EDIT: Just wanted to let you know there probably will be some offensive posts coming from other members, and just ignore them.
 
I did read the post given earlier, and this is what I gleaned from it:

"Weaning an obligate piscivore onto dead foods is time consuming and to some extent depends on starving the fish in question. If that fish is newly imported, it might not have eaten a proper meal in weeks, in which case further starving it may weaken the fish, even kill it."

"Some aquarists also believe that live fish offer the best diet for piscivorous fish. This is not necessarily true if only one type of fish is used (see Best Practise below) but in theory at least, a live fish diet should be a reasonable match for what a piscivorous fish eats in the wild. Using a substitute that a species would not encounter in the wild (like brine shrimps or squid) might not provide the full balance of nutrients that it needs."

"The main disadvantage of using live fish as food is the risk of introducing parasites and bacteria into the aquarium. Cheap, mass produced fish, especially goldfish, are maintained in squalid conditions. Mortality, even when these fish are kept as pets, is high. While one goldfish might only pose a small risk to a predator, the risk is cumulative over time. So if you feed a predatory fish a goldfish once every two or three days, even after only a few months the chance of infecting your pet fish with something nasty is virtually a certainty." - I wholeheartedly believe this. That is why I will never feed my big guys anything bought from a local "pet store."

"While some people have also used cichlid fry as feeders, the spiny fins on these fish are problematic for many predators not especially adapted to deal with them. Livebearers, by contrast, are small and soft, and won't choke your prize predator." Is a convict a cichlid? I thought it was, but if it is not, I will look into offering them periodically.

"Goldfish and rosy red minnows can be easy to breed, but they suffer from being high in the chemical thiaminase. They must not be used as the staple diet, because over time they will prevent the predatory fish from having enough vitamin B1, which will cause serious health problems. The muscles, bones, and nerves appear to be most seriously affected." - Can anyone show me photo examples of a predator with these health problems? I'd like to know what to look for in the future, as I've never seen anything like it.

"The other key advantage of raising your own feeder fish is that you can "gut load" them. Predatory animals, even strict carnivores like cats, depend upon the gut contents (usually plant matter) of the prey animals they eat to obtain certain nutrients lacking in meat. This is why cats eat the guts and liver of mice and birds they catch, yet ignore the bits that seem nicer to us, like the wing muscles. Likewise, predatory fish will benefit from being fed feeder fish that have themselves been fed properly. Make sure that the feeder fish have been fed vitamin-ennriched food before they are offered to the predatory fish. Vegetarian and algae-based foods are generally considered the most useful. The feeder fish should be "fattened up" for anything up to a month before being used." This is what I was asking about earlier. Anyone have a better alternative than koi pellets? That's what my goldfish are currently being fed, but I'm open to change that.

"When using feeder fish, only add as many as will be eaten within a few minutes. Ideally, feed just one, and only add another if the predatory fish is still obviously hungry. What you want to avoid is having a bunch of terrified, battered fish swimming about the tank. If nothing else, they will be placing an additional strain on the filter as well as using up oxygen." I agree with this and I practice it. Earlier I said I only feed what can be consumed in 5-8 minutes.

"Use feeder fish of suitable size that they will be killed quickly." Space monkey, yes I agree. The bigger cats eat the larger, 2-3" goldfish, and my bass and datnoid will eat the smaller .5-1" feeders. I catch a good mix of sized each time, so that everyone has an opportunity to catch an appropriate size. My gar has a very tiny mouth, and he would surely starve if I only offered 3" goldfish.

Hope that clears up any questions about my feeding practices.



Space monkey - thanks for the heads up. I think all forums are alike, no matter what the discussion topic. People have different opinions, and people show all sorts of varying research. I think we've had great results with our predator tank thus far, and will continue to post progress in the future. Also, thank you for the additional feeder types to look for.
 
Yes, convict cichlids do have sharp spines, but they really shouldn't bother the catfish at all. Your fish shouldn't have a problem with it, as all of yours would encounter that in the wild. I really haven't seen the effects of fish eating goldfish exclusively, and any picture of one would be from a fish with a diet of poor quality goldfish. I'm sure there are some additives you could put into the goldfish to have enough vitamins, such as vitamin B1. I would like to see how your fish turn out if you keep feeding them healthy goldfish, so I support your practice.
 
A friend of ours with a similar tank setup (only cats though) said he fed his perch one time and the top fin got lodged between the shovel nose's mouth and stomach somewhere, and he died. He said it was a little fatter than a 4" goldfish, but the same length as goldfish he had been feeding before.

I don't think I could picture myself wacking the fins off the cichlids and perch before I fed them to the predators. Sometimes I still see a uniquely pretty goldfish in the stock tank... and I leave it there. I do have a heart, y'all! :)

I'll keep picture updates as I see visible progression. We are thinking about changing the sand out to black sand, after seeing a few tanks done with it. It looks super slick. We used to have river rocks, but not only was water flow scarce under the deepest rocks, the goldfish would hide down in between them and I'd have to root them out so they wouldn't hang out in the tank. I was afraid the red tail would eat a rock trying to get to them, so I pulled them all out.
 
wow, that is one awesome tank and fish selection you have there... im really jealous :good: i was reading the thread and tried to understand what people were sayin about the gold fish thing and thought about givin my own opinion but then decided, i prob dont know enough and would sound like a jerk so... really awsom fish i love ur RTC and i agree with wat andy is sayin about how big they get but... u and ur husband seem to have a good idea about what you are doing so good luck with the big tank!!!! :good:
 
Thank you mark7616! Can you link me to where you found that? I wanna know how to tell the difference between all the different types in the future.

And LetsBeFriends, don't be jealous! I share! You can start with half the electricity bill if you'd like. :crazy: Haha, j/k.

Happy 4th of July to everyone else in the States!
 
Here's a good chart to tell...

post-2985-1169761133.gif
 
Lol I id`d from my head. Its not the easiest thing to do Id 3 bar indos, with st and ct but you can tell the differences after you have been looking at them for a while. For your info though you wont see ST in the shops and the ones you will see for sale will be 8"+ by private sellars as they are banned from export driving prices up. £ bar indo you will see in the shop. How long have you had it. I have to be truthfull with you though the diet you have the fish on is very poor.
 
He was sold to our LFS by a man who was moving to Hawaii from Dallas. He was already nearly 9" when they got him in and he was bullying the other fish they had with him in the 100 gallon shop tank, so they called us. Locally, we are one of the only families who can take on big bully fish. LFS owner told me he had asked the breed because he'd never seen one and the guy said "Siamese Tiger Datnoid." We have had him in our tank for a little over 2 years now. He's in between 9.5 and 10" now.

Oh yea ::edit:: I checked his stripes out some more and I noticed on the right side of the anal fin his stripes are very different - 1 thick, 1 thin. But as they go over the top and back to the left side, they even up. I'll try to get more pics, but when he sees me he faces me and follows me so it's hard to get a good photo.
 
Using the 2 pics of your below its easy to tell its an Indonesian Tiger Datnoid microlepsis. It just has 3 bars thats all.

IMG_2277.jpg

IMG_2282.jpg


This is my true Siamese Tiger Datnoid Pulcha
Picture1389.jpg
 
Link me to pics of the three-bar Indo? I can't find it on google.

Can you tell me how to tell the difference? I know you said you can tell just by looking - so what do you look for? I know this sounds dense but I can't tell the difference.


Edit:
Tiger ID talk

I found this. Do you agree with what he's saying? It helped me a little, I think. Is it color we're looking at?
 

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