New Jbl Pressurised Co2 Kit Question

[melh1979]

Hi
We bought a JBL Set Easy 2 and received it at the weekend (purchased before reading someone on here say they were crap!) Anyway we set it up on Sunday night as per the instructions - when we tightened the valve onto the bottle the high pressure gauge went to 50 and the low pressure gauge went to 3 (although the instructions said it should be 1-1.5). We set the low pressure gauge to 2.5 (any lower and no bubbles appeared) and left it for 24 hours to settle in as per the instructions. When we got home from work last night the high pressure gauge had gone down to 20 bar which seems to be a big decrease after only one day!
Surely this isn't possible - is it possible the gauge's are wrong? I'm not sure we can afford to replace the CO2 cannister every other day lol!

 

[SuperColey1]

Hi
We bought a JBL Set Easy 2 and received it at the weekend (purchased before reading someone on here say they were crap!) Anyway we set it up on Sunday night as per the instructions - when we tightened the valve onto the bottle the high pressure gauge went to 50 and the low pressure gauge went to 3 (although the instructions said it should be 1-1.5). We set the low pressure gauge to 2.5 (any lower and no bubbles appeared) and left it for 24 hours to settle in as per the instructions. When we got home from work last night the high pressure gauge had gone down to 20 bar which seems to be a big decrease after only one day!
Surely this isn't possible - is it possible the gauge's are wrong? I'm not sure we can afford to replace the CO2 cannister every other day lol!

Are your fish alive still?

When you set up the kit you should do the following:

close both the regulator and needle valve (turn to - fully)
connect everything up - needle valve into regulator htn hose to solenoid then hose to diffusion method
The cylinder pressure and flow pressure should both read 0.
connect the cylinder and the cylinder pressure should jump to 50+. The flow pressure shold still read 0
Open the regulator valve until the flow pressure reads between 1.5 and 2
leave it for a minute until it is steady between 1.5 and 2 and then open the needle valve 1 full turn.
leave for 10 mins and check your bubble count. aim initially for 1bps then increase/decrease each hour until your drop checker gets to the correct colour.
Keep checking for the first few days and also keep checking that everything is still tight and sealed.

The reason your cylinder pressure is now 20 is that the cylinder is emptying. I would guess that if you are not getting bubbles that you have a leak somewhere and with you opening the cylinder to 2.5 that the cylinder is rapidly escaping.

Andy

 

[melh1979]

Are your fish alive still?

When you set up the kit you should do the following:

close both the regulator and needle valve (turn to - fully)
connect everything up - needle valve into regulator htn hose to solenoid then hose to diffusion method
The cylinder pressure and flow pressure should both read 0.
connect the cylinder and the cylinder pressure should jump to 50+. The flow pressure shold still read 0
Open the regulator valve until the flow pressure reads between 1.5 and 2
leave it for a minute until it is steady between 1.5 and 2 and then open the needle valve 1 full turn.
leave for 10 mins and check your bubble count. aim initially for 1bps then increase/decrease each hour until your drop checker gets to the correct colour.
Keep checking for the first few days and also keep checking that everything is still tight and sealed.

The reason your cylinder pressure is now 20 is that the cylinder is emptying. I would guess that if you are not getting bubbles that you have a leak somewhere and with you opening the cylinder to 2.5 that the cylinder is rapidly escaping.

Andy

Thanks for reply.
Fortunately there are no fish in the tank yet!
According to hubby (who was the one who set it up) both were on 0 before connecting to the bottle and when he tightened it onto the bottle the HP went to 50 and the LP to 3 and bubbles came out immediately. It's now on 2.5 and we're getting a bubble in every turn on the diffuser (which is supposed to be 80 bubble per minute). This was a tad too much according to drop checker but it's difficult to turn it down without stopping the bubbles all together as it's very sensitive.
Hubby says he's checked for leaks but couldn't see or hear anything but I'll get him to check again when he gets home.

Editing as I just emailed your reply to hubby and he says this:

"Not sure which is the needle valve and which is regulator valve, there is only one black knob which I use to regulate the flow to the diffuser.
I initially turned the regulator valve (black knob) off and then screwed in the bottle, the cylinder pressure jumper to 50+ and the flow pressure jumped to 3.
Opening the regulator valve reduces the flow pressure to about 2.5 but it does not go lower than that.
Does this mean we may have a problem with the pressure reducer?"

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I'm starting to think I may have screwed up somewhere along the line as when I set up my JBL it was nowhere near as complicated.

How I set it up.

Ignore gauges.
Turn black knob all the way right to close the valve
Screw regulator onto can
Turn black knob slightly left until I see bubbles coming out in the bubble count.
Need more bubbles turn left slightly.
Need less bubbles turn right slightly.
When gauges drop back to zero and there is no more bubbles replace can.

Might not be the right way but has worked fine for me for at least 2 months (just replaced the can for the first time today).

 

[melh1979]

I'm starting to think I may have screwed up somewhere along the line as when I set up my JBL it was nowhere near as complicated.

How I set it up.

Ignore gauges.
Turn black knob all the way right to close the valve
Screw regulator onto can
Turn black knob slightly left until I see bubbles coming out in the bubble count.
Need more bubbles turn left slightly.
Need less bubbles turn right slightly.
When gauges drop back to zero and there is no more bubbles replace can.

Might not be the right way but has worked fine for me for at least 2 months (just replaced the can for the first time today).

That's pretty much what we did but the high pressure gauge is alreay down to 20 from 50 after 24 hours use! What is your low pressure gauge set to? Have you found it difficult to get the pressure right - we have found that it's tricky to get fewer bubbles as it just turns it off!

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I will check when I get home (I really dont pay any attention to the gauges ). I have just replaced it today as well so will give you a good idea if it is the same or not. As far as I recall both gauges where on the red line when I installed it. I'm pretty sure it was the same with the last bottle right up until it run out (went from red line to zero during the day).

I havent really had any problems with adjusting the output. It is very sensitive though so you barely have to turn the control valve to go from 50bps to 2bbps. I found you have to adjust it slightly as the pressure drops but not by any large ammount (I do a quick check in the evening when I feed the fish). I think you just have to get used to it (I can pretty much dial in straight to 2 bpps now).

 

[xxBarneyxx]

One thing I have just thought of regards to having problems with adjusting it. Is your bubble counter built into your diffusor? When I was not using an in line bubble counter it was slightly more difficult to adjust. I think it was because you had a longer piece of tubing which caused a bit of a delayed reaction (IE you turn the CO2 down but the pressure in the tube keeps it bubbling at a high rate for a few seconds more).

I now have a bubble counter right after the soloniod which makes it easier to adjust.

What I would do is. Turn the valve off. Turn it left very slightly and wait a few seconds. If nothing happens just nudge it left a little more and wait another few seconds.

 

[melh1979]

Thanks Barney. I'm hoping it's not really almost run out and the gauge is wrong! We just have the diffuser it came with which is supposed to be a bubble counter too - we have found it's difficult to adjust because of that reason (plus it's new so occasionally the bubbles get stuck and come up in one big huge bubble but that should be sorted now).

 

[SuperColey1]

I am assuming then that you are using the valve knob on the regulator which is very sensitive and can lead to danger (as I have personally experienced when not used with a good needle valve.

The knob on the regulator is very good for welding but not great for using when fine adjustment is needed, so we screw a needle valve into the regulator which means that no matter what the regulator wants to output the needle valve can be used to finely control the amount that actually gets through.

Pics would be useful and Barney obviously has more experience with this kit, I use one that is for welding. lol

Andy

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Well on mine the left gauge is at 65 and the right is at 1.8 (pretty much the same as my last canister). I did not notice mine drop at all until it had run out so I think yours is probably ok if it is still working without having to have the valve open loads.

I found the CO2 diffusor with the JBL kit was a bit rubbish and took up too much space so I feed my CO2 into my outflow pipe with a lsight mod which works much better

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=205088

 

[Dave Spencer]

"Not sure which is the needle valve and which is regulator valve, there is only one black knob which I use to regulate the flow to the diffuser.
I initially turned the regulator valve (black knob) off and then screwed in the bottle, the cylinder pressure jumper to 50+ and the flow pressure jumped to 3.
Opening the regulator valve reduces the flow pressure to about 2.5 but it does not go lower than that.
Does this mean we may have a problem with the pressure reducer?"

The black knob is an isolating valve and should be 100% open when the cylinder is in service, or 100% closed when you are disconnecting/reconnecting the cylinder. Barney, isolating valves are not designed to regulate flow, so if you use it in the manner you are at the moment, you run the risk of eroding the valve gate sealing face, with the eventual result that it will pass CO2, even when it is fully closed.

The needle valve is the knurled silver wheel on the front of the cylindrical part the two gauges are connected to. This is the valve that should be used to control the amount of CO2 going to your diffuser.

The gauge on the left is reading the cylinder pressure and the one on the right is reading the pressure after the pressure reduction by the regulator and is a built in design value. Some regulators have an additional valve to allow the regulated pressure to be adjusted, such as my Aquamas model, but the JBL does not have this feature.

Once the cylinder pressure starts to dip below 50 Bar I change the cylinder, because at a lower pressure that I am not sure of the value of, the regulator has insufficient pressure to seal itself properly and the remaining contents of the cylinder are dumped very rapidly in to your tank.

If your cylinder has dropped to 20 Bar overnight then you almost certainly have a leak from one or more of the connections you have made. There is a small rubber `O` ring seal that sits in the regulator to cylinder connection, so make sure this is OK. Use a mix of fairy liquid and water and dribble it over all the connections. If you have a leak then you should see bubbles.

Dave.

 

[melh1979]

http/www.jbl.de/factmanager/frame_page.p...pe=2&Id=137 It's this one here if the link works!!
So Barney yours went straight from 65 odd to zero? Ours started at about 50 and has been going down steadily since when it's been on and is now 15.

Dave - I didn't see your post when I first posted this. The black knob is on the front between the two gauges and seems to be the only thing which can be turned and adjusted?

 

[melh1979]

We checked for leaks around the bottle and found none so took the tubing out and put into water and found that there was some leaking from the non return valve. On closer look the plastic is split. Think we're going to send the kit back to Aquatics Online. Is there any difference between the Easy Set one which uses disposable and the Profi sets which use refillable apart from the types of cannister they use?

 

[ChrisP]

Most likely the fitting on the regulator on the two are different to accommodate the different types of bottles, that's probably about it.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

The black knob is an isolating valve and should be 100% open when the cylinder is in service, or 100% closed when you are disconnecting/reconnecting the cylinder. Barney, isolating valves are not designed to regulate flow, so if you use it in the manner you are at the moment, you run the risk of eroding the valve gate sealing face, with the eventual result that it will pass CO2, even when it is fully closed.

The needle valve is the knurled silver wheel on the front of the cylindrical part the two gauges are connected to. This is the valve that should be used to control the amount of CO2 going to your diffuser.
Dave.

On a normal reg yeah but on the JBL (at least the one I have and I think Mel has) there is one valve that is opened/closed with an alum key (which you dont need to touch and is the isolating valve) and the black knob which is the "dosing Valve".

Just double checked my instructions though (because I have done completely stupid things in the past and I'm sure i will do them again ).

1) Close the Black Dosage Valve on the pressure reducer by turning clockwise.. (...screw onto can, attach tubes, etc,etc)

....5) Slowly open the Black dosage valve on the pressure reducer and allow a small number of bubbles through the CO2 diffusion system.


So yeah there is no other valve there (or at least one you wanna mess with). Black knob is the needle valve.