New Goldfish In Tank

[AVANTI]

Hi, I have a 2ft by 1ft by 1.5ft tank with a filter. Began with having 2 black moors and 2 regular gold fish for 1 year. Slowly they died as i made beginners errors. Was left with one, 5inch gold fish.

Two days back i added two more gold fish. (small red colour regular ones).

The two new ones (2inches each) are very active compared to the old big goldfish. They seem to be running around the big one all the time and i fear that the two small ones will end up biting the fins, of the bigger one.

Can you PLEASE suggest some initial steps to keep them from fighting (mainly at feed time). Can i separate them with a water net for a few days? Please help!

thansk
Avanti

 

[DevUK]

Not sure what you could do to prevent them nipping. Are they the same type of goldfish? (Fancy/common?) You could try feeding them at opposite ends of the tank?

Unfortunately your tank is overstocked. For 1 fancy goldfish you need 20 us gallons, and for each additional you need a further 10 gallons. By my reckoning you have about 28 us gallons. If these are common (long bodied) goldfish then they need even more.

What filtration do you have? You definately need a lot with goldfish as they are big waste producers, and as you are a little overstocked, this is important.

 

[Yazan]

20 US gallons for each goldfish, try that and maybe it will work

 

[AVANTI]

Yes they are the regular/common gold fish. Yup, messy they are tons!...jsut that i found them visually the best from the shop, rest were just too tiny and i could barely see their eyes.
...in a way im onto a mini degree on handling goldfish, as i've had 5 (seen many of golfish diseases) and three more now.

btw, the filter i have, i'm attaching a few pics. this will give a much better idea. (i clean the filter but surprisingly nothing but light brown water emits...is that ok?)

- can i add anymore fish to this tank?
- can i use plastic containers as decorative pieces or will the plastic chemicals harm the fish?

The tank i began with more than 1yr ago:
http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avan...ank_18thdec.jpg

First two (1 still alive):
http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avantim/goldfishes.jpg

Stages the big fish went through:
http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avantim/gfishblack.jpg

http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avan...lepatchfish.jpg

The tank now:
http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avantim/1.jpg

The 2 new fish:
http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avantim/2.jpg

The big and the new:
http/i33.photobucket.com/albums/d85/avantim/3.jpg


thanks
avanti

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Common goldfish wil easily grow to over 12inches long given the space, your tank is too small for common goldfish. The 20gals for the first goldy and 10 for every one after that rule only applys to fancy goldfish, non-fancy goldfish like comet and common goldfish grow a lot larger than the fancy vareties and are a lot more active so need more space, i wouldn't advise keeping non-fancy goldfish in anything less than a 75gallon long tank.
Mixing non-fancy and fancy varities of goldfish also isn't advised as because non-fancy goldfish are a lot more agile and active than their plump fancy cousins, they tend to pick on the defenceless fancy goldfish sooner or later.
edit: i wouldnit personally advise using plastic containers like that pot noodle looking container you had in the tank, who knows what sorts of chemicals it could leek into the tank over time from the painted outside of the container.

 

[AVANTI]

thanks a lot!...yup, actually my first choice were two black moors but since the ones in the shop were not too good, these were the only ones left...also...the shops here dont really know much abt the compatibility but we have no choice but to trust them or not buy fish....

guess i'll have to stick with these three as of now...

Advice:
- are live plants used for anything more than just looking good in a tank?
- should i run the continuously or everyday for couple of hrs is fine?

thanks
Avanti

 

[poopsydrew]

thanks a lot!...yup, actually my first choice were two black moors but since the ones in the shop were not too good, these were the only ones left...also...the shops here dont really know much abt the compatibility but we have no choice but to trust them or not buy fish....

guess i'll have to stick with these three as of now...

Advice:
- are live plants used for anything more than just looking good in a tank?
- should i run the continuously or everyday for couple of hrs is fine?

thanks
Avanti

Guess youll need to upgrade your tank or give them back. Live plants are used for much more than just looking good. And i am guessing you are asking should i run the filter? If so yea that stays on all the time, but im not sure how you wouldnt know that if you have been doing this as long as you state.

Drew

 

[AVANTI]

Hi Drew, yes i was actually asking if the filter stays on all the time.
Issue being, I've asked many local pet shops but they advice to have it on only for few hrs each day...which i hav been doing. Am still leanring a lot of things as to be able to one day have a great fish tank with all the right elemts.
few challenges i face in this city are:
- they dont take back fish out here..
- have to manage with the ones we buy, of throw them (def cannot do that)...
- not many choices of fish in the pet shops here..
- i travel a lot, so dont want to get fish and have them die as no one to take care..

nevertheless thanks for the reply, any help is precious to me...
avanti

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

No you should definately have you filter running 24/7, if you turn it off for hours at a time you will kill off all the beneficial bacteria trying to establish itself in the filter by starving it of oxygen and food. It seems you do not understand how the water quality works in aquariums, this article in the link below will explain much to you and contains a lot of important information to know;

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

So you should always have your filter running. Do you use dechlorinator at all?

With the rehoming of the fish thing, non-fancy goldfish like common goldfish can live outdoors in ponds as they can easily survive the freezing temps in winter as long as the pond is of at least 3ft depth. If your water doesn't freeze in winter where you live in the world, then fancy goldfish can also be kept outdoors, so if you know anyone with a decent side pond of decent depth with plenty of space for fish, then that is an easy way to find a home for goldfish.
There is also a buy/sell/swap section on the fish forum as well which you can try rehoming the excess goldfish on as well .

If you keep the goldfish in the tank as they currently are, as time goes buy and the goldfish grow you will experience increasingly bad water quality problems which will put a big strain on your fishes health (and may even kill them), and goldfish like the common goldfish will experience bad stunted growth and enevitably the goldfish will be sent to an early grave.
So its very important to provide enough space for your goldfish will good filtration and clean the tank on a proper and regular basis etc .

With going for petshops for advice, this tends to be a bad idea. Most petshop staff are not knowledgeable on fishkeeping at all as petshops are not oblidged to give their staff any standard training for such things, petshop staff tend to also not be payed much either way, so most petshops opt to give them no training at all especially when it comes to fish. A lot of petshop staff tend to be students or people doing a part time job purely for the money, most of them when it comes to their own personal fishkeeping experiences tend to only go as far as keeping some goldfish in a bowl. So basically, being a petshop employee does not make you knowledgeable on fishkeeping.
You should be always very wary of people trying to sell you things, your petshop has already sold you too many goldfish for your tank and given you bad advice like telling you to keep the filter off a lot of the time etc. A petshop is no more obliged to tell you you how to be a successfull/good fishkeeper than a garage is to tell you how to be a good/safe driver etc.
Doing your own thorough research before you go to the shop to buy fish is the best way to learn about fishkeeping, we here give you honest advice without tying to sell you stuff etc, because we want to honestly help and learn together etc .
Years ago when i first started out in fishkeeping, i naturally went to the petshop looking for advice after seeing their nice clean tanks and colourful fish and so i assumed they would know lots about good fishkeeping. But i made so many mistakes by relying on petshop advice, i got sold fish which grew far too big for my tanks back then (i was sold 2 common plecos and a sailfin for a 20 tank, these fish can grow to over 15-22inches long each at need at least a 75gal long tank etc) and advised fish to keep together which were highly territorial/agressive and tried to kill each other etc etc. It was not until after my fish got deseases/parasites and i was losing fish almost every day from whitespot that i joined a fish forum and ever since then i have learnt a great deal on fishkeeping and continue to learn more every week, my fish have been healthy and happy for years now since i started doing my own research online and i would definately never go to petshops for advice ever again !

 

[AVANTI]

Wow!! thanks a lot indeed!

Yes i agree i have to learn tons more. I've not been able to save the fish but can def say that the forum help me understand what the problem was and that i feel is the first and most important step of leanring...

To begin with, the diff between fresh water and tropical fish was something no one tells you...not even the pet shop. For them all fish are the same and they go well with most fish. I even ran the heater once for the gold fish as i was told that due to the cold temperature the fish will get sloppy...tortured the fish with medication after medication and finally got to know (through the forum) that the black marks on gold fish are just a colour change and not some disease!! personally sat and pulled out each 'anchor worm' and then got to know the complications that can have in leaving half of it in the body of the fish if not pulled out properly....Poor things, have had them go through a lot.

Even now, the big goldy is being chased all the time by the two small ones and its as if its shouting out saying 'save me from these two animals'...jokes apart its sad but i have no choice but to have them in one tank. At the most was thinking of seperating the tank with a fish net, but that will limit the space and create more toruble for each fish.. stuck with these two over excited fishies..

btw, which are the common (easily available) type of fish that go well with Gold fish? Please!!

thanks
Avanti

 

[AVANTI]

At the most was thinking of seperating the tank with a fish net, but that will limit the space and create more toruble for each fish.. stuck with these two over excited fishies..

btw, which are the common (easily available) type of fish that go well with Gold fish? !!Please!!

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Common goldfish go best with other slim type goldfish like the london shubunkin and comet goldfish, but i wouldn't advise adding anymore fish to your tank. However a divider net would be good for the fish for at least the time being to help prevent anymore bullying between the goldfish, like this;

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/PENNPLAX-TANK-SPLITT...VQQcmdZViewItem

 

[AVANTI]

oh ok, shall implement the divider net then. oh yes, i'll not add anymore fish as of now.

Firstly - I had this qs for a while. The Filter i've installed (visible in my pics), must it be at the bottom of the tank or the top? does it make a diff?

Secondly - is there any particular kind of gravel/sand/stones that reduce the deposit of fish poo in the tank?.

Thirdly - getting a riftwood piece for my tank, would it crowd the tank further? What could i include in the tank to add look and also not loose out of the space etc.

Thanks,
Avanti

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Firstly - I had this qs for a while. The Filter i've installed (visible in my pics), must it be at the bottom of the tank or the top? does it make a diff?

Having the filter at the top of the tank will help improve the airation of the tank/improve the oxygen content, which will be good in hot weather where oxygen disolves less at warmer temps (goldfish do best in highly oxygenated tanks, the warmer the tank, the more important it is to have lots of oxygen in it etc). It probably won't trap as much waste though being at the top of the tank.
My advice would be to get another filter for the tank, so you have two. Goldfish are big waste producing fish, they can produce a suprising amount of poop, and as yours grow larger the filter will find it more and more difficult to cope with the waste in the tank. Its generally advised that you over-filter goldfish tanks because of this (not only that, but goldfish enjoy a good current/flow in the tank)- having one filter placed at the top at one end of the tank, and another placed at the bottom on at the other end, will help a great deal in helping create a well-oxygenated and clean tank .
In my 125gal goldfish tank, i have about 700litres of filtration in there at the moment, and i would never opt for any less having seen how good the extra filtration has been for my tank and my goldfish- it has also helped keep the substrate a lot cleaner too .

Secondly - is there any particular kind of gravel/sand/stones that reduce the deposit of fish poo in the tank?.

Yes, fine sand is the best by far! Gravel and pebble substrates are notorious for trapping waste in them, however sand is very dense and waste finds it extremely difficult to get trapped in it, rather instead it stays on top of the substrate where the filter can suck it in with much more ease.
Sand is also a good substrate for goldfishes lifestyles as well, since part of goldfishs natural behaviour is to sift through the substrate looking for food- they find this much easier with sand as it is a more natural substrate for them to do this on. Gravel can even be dangerous for fish like fancy goldfish, as they have been known to accidently swallow it and choke on it when looking through the substrate for food.
There are many types of sand available in lfs/local fish stores, personally i use fine white silica sand as it is very soft and fine and it shows off the colour of the fish very well, silica sand can come in many colours as well like red, blue, purple, green, black, yellow etc etc. I personally think the white is the nicest though .
For a cheaper option, you can use childrens playsand if you wash it thoroughly through, however never use stuff like building sand as it contains all sorts of toxic setting agents etc. Whatever sand you opt for though if you choose to go for it, make sure you wash it through thoroughly before you put it into the tank as it is likely to be quite dusty and will make the tank quite cloudy if you don't wash it before you put it in the tank.

Thirdly - getting a riftwood piece for my tank, would it crowd the tank further? What could i include in the tank to add look and also not loose out of the space etc.

Thanks,
Avanti

No it should be fine as long as it is not really massive, having some decor in the tank is good to help providing some hiding places in the tank for the fish and to help create a more stress-free natural habitat for them .

 

[AVANTI]

Hey, thanks a ton! That was indeed an eye-opener! feel much better to know whats right!

In just two days of keeping the filter on continuously, i saw a vast difference in the tank clarity and the residue that use to settle on the items in the tank. Now, I have only the filter and one plastic trasparent container in the tank.
The two little ones have taken over that container as hiding place, leaving the big fish to float around outside. They dont chase each other/bite each other that often now. Guess they're getting comfortable around each other.
But fed times are still a challenge...have to make sure all eat, as the little ones are quite aggressive.

- I guess the sand option is best, BUT... BUT....what happens when you clean the whole tank? Sand would be a mess to remove and clean and how much of it will remain to put back in the tank after cleaning? I hope you're getting me here...cause emptying the tank of the gravel and stones itself is quite a task! Sand is so much more finer and in water its even verse.

- Btw, I use 'holiday food' (as available in the pet shops here) when i travel for a week or few days. Somehow, the fish look dull when i get back.
possible Reasons:
- the food does not last for a week and the fish are left without food for 3-4days.
- The food is not nutritional thus the fish get weak?
- the food is not the correct type?

regards,
Avanti