New Fish Owner, Need Help Please

[Perpetualcoolness]

Hello, we are new to fish keeping. I have (now) read up all beginners info in this forum but have a question, please.

Background: with no previous knowledge of keeping fish, we recently got a 40L fish tank, about two weeks ago. My 9 year old daughter had been asking for fish for two years so we finally did it. We followed instructions from pet store, prepared tank water, left it for three days, took water sample to shop, was rejected with too much nitrite. I changed all the water tank and refilled with newly treated water. Waited three days, took new sample to the shop and it was fine, so my daughter was so happy when we brought home eight fish:
1 fighting fish
2 Mollies
3 guppies
2 neon
That was a week ago.
Next day one guppy disappeared from tank, nowhere to be seen. Two days later one neon also disappeared. We thought they might be hiding under the gravel so looked around and even lifted all decor items but they were nowhere to be seen. I decided to look up the internet 'my guppy fish disappeared' and I came across this forum. I read everything I could that night, mostly the cycling info, which is a great help by the way, and all about what happens in the tank with bad bacteria and then good bacteria cycles. My husband and I did find the neon fish, dead, floating behind the filter and we quickly removed it so my daughter would not see it. I guess the guppy got eaten when it died but we never saw anything left behind. I wish we had known about fishless cycling, but we already had the fish so it could not be helped. Thankfully, the remaining six fish seem to be ok so far.

I now want to change the water, the store said this morning to change 10% of it whereas the info on this forum suggests 20%, which we will do. My question is regarding the amount of tap safe liquid I have to use.

I am using Interpet Bioactive Tapsafe tap water treatment. The directions are:
1x outer capful for every 225 litres (50 gallons)
1x inner capful for every 45 litres (10 gallons)

The inner capful measurement is fine when I change the whole 40 litres tank, however, for such a small amount of 20% or even 10% water how much would I use and with what device can I measure such a small amount of this liquid?

I was just going to use about 4 drops off a Calpol syringe (child's medication) but my husband thinks that is very risky to just guess that 4 drops will do it, it might be too much and kill the fish. The syringe's smallest measure is 0.25ml.

Please can you help us?

Many thanks.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I would disregard what your pet store tells you, pet stores are notorious for bad information.   What you are doing at the moment is a fish in cycle.  You will need to invest in a water testing kit (if you haven't already) and begin daily tests of your water.  You will need to do daily water changes (most likely) in accordance with how much ammonia is present.
 
When changing the water, put the corresponding amount of tap safe to the estimated amount of water you are replacing.  You can make an estimation as putting in too much will not harm your fish.
 
You also have some stocking issues.  I'd suggest returning neon right away.  Neons need to be in minimum groups of 6 and prefer long tanks as they like to swim, they also do very badly in new tanks.  Mollies need a larger tank with lots of swimming room so I'd suggest returning those as well.  That leaves you with the betta (fighting fish) and the guppies... unfortunately these two types of fish are rarely compatible.  Assuming you bought a male betta, these do best on their own most of the time.  So, I'd suggest figuring out what you want from your tank... if you want a mix of fish I'd suggest returning the betta as he is likely to become aggressive to other fish especially fish such as guppies.  Guppies are a fantastic community fish and get along with most other community fish.

Once you have decided which fish to keep... I'd not add any more fish until you have completed your fish in cycle... adding more fish means they produce more ammonia and the levels could build quicker meaning more water changes and more of a chance that your fish could become ill from the ammonia.

 

[Meep]

Hi,
 
I'm totally new to this too but I had the same HUH? moment over how much to use, so if its any help this is what I did
 
I'm using a small measuring spoon (1.25ml) and used it to measure water into the cap of the tapsafe bottle.the inner cap takes four of these so:
5ml - 45l/10g
2.5ml - 22.5l/5g...
 
Just work it out to how much water you're changing and good luck with your new pets

 

[Perpetualcoolness]

Thank you for your advice. We now have some thinking re the number and type of fish, and thanks for the info on the measurements. You would think the pet store would give you this sort of advice beforehand. Thanks, again.

 

[Meep]

Thank you for your advice. We now have some thinking re the number and type of fish, and thanks for the info on the measurements. You would think the pet store would give you this sort of advice beforehand. Thanks, again.

Depends where you go, I've found some are informed about the fish and others especially the bigger non-specialised pet shops are more about making money.  Only one place I've been mentioned the Nitrogen Cycle and I only learnt about cycling on this forum.

 

[allydawn17]

You could either get a separate tank for the betta or return him all together. Betta's are NOT community fish, and really don't do well in a community setting, and the longer he's in there the more fish you'll lose. The neons needs a school, and if this is to be a community tank you don't much room for anything else but a school of neons in a 40 liter, so either have a school of neons or a community tank. Your best bet is to keep the guppies and molly, as they will generally do well with each other. Sorry for the bad info from the pet store, good luck!

 

[Perpetualcoolness]

Hello again, and thanks for the info allydawn17.

Unfortunately, we returned home this evening (I had sent above posts whilst out) to find the two Mollies dead in the tank.

This all so very upsetting. Poor little things. I feel awful. My daughter is so upset too, as is my husband. I am upset with the pet store for allowing this sort of thing to happen without advising a fishless cycling first.

I changed half the tank water and replaced it with treated water but I am dreading anything else happens before I can make it back to the pet store tomorrow after work, to return the neon and maybe buy another smaller tank for the betta, or return it too. My daughter really likes the betta. The Mollies were her other favourites.

If we keep the betta (in a separate smaller tank) could I just take water from the current 40L tank and put it into the new, smaller tank and transfer the betta? Would it be happy just on its own? Thank you, again, for your help.

 

[allydawn17]

Yes, the betta would be happiest on his own, in any tank 5 gallons (not sure how many litres that is, sorry!) or up. Probably don't transfer the water over, just fill it with new, treated water of the same temperature. Also, when you do water changes in the 40 liter tank, add the new water and then treat the whole tank so you don't have to measure such small amounts.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I would recommend fishless cycling for any tank you decide on before getting fish... it will prevent this kind of heartbreak in the future.  I too started out fish keeping in this way... thinking the person at the store knew something... which also resulted in dead fish and a lot of frustration!  Since then... I have only actually found ONE man working at one of the fish shops that gives me great advice... you would hope there would be more, but a good fish shop worker is rare!
 
The good bacteria is house in your filter media (the material in your filter), so just adding water does not transfer any of the goodness you are hoping for.  And just a tip (as instructions are also wrong) do not replace the media in your filter monthly or however often the instructions suggest... this gives away all the good bacteria.  If the media becomes gunked up with brown, fill a bowl of old tank water and gently squeeze the sponge to remove the gunk.  Also, this generally does not need doing more often than monthly (I think I do mine closer to every 2 months).
 
It might even be good to keep your betta alone in your current tank while it cycles... the ammonia from just one fish would build up a lot more slowly in a larger tank which would make starting a cycle easier to manage.  Meanwhile... you could work to fishless cycle a different tank for him to move to later.

 

[Perpetualcoolness]

Thank you, PrairieSunflower and Allydawn17. This is great advice.
Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Perpetualcoolness]

Hello,

Just an update for anyone reading this, and another question.

We got a second tank just for the betta, however, in the meantime, the guppies died too. So, before we could move the betta to its new tank, we were left with one neon and the betta in the 40L tank. I have been doing the water changes and all seems now stable with just these two fish.

However, I noticed yesterday that the filter and sponges, are covered in a yellow gunk which seems to be spreading to the cables around it, today. I have only rinsed the sponges during a water change and just pretty much left it alone, but what is this yellow stuff? Some fungus? Do I need to clean it off?

I would be grateful for any advice, please. Here is photo of the filter.

 

[PrairieSunflower]

I haven't seen yellow like that before, hopefully someone else will have something useful to contribute, maybe a new thread about that might get more people's attention.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hello and sorry to hear you've been having troubles with your tank

Unfortunately, LFS are not always good for advice as you found out to your cost and as Prairiesunflower already mentions, good LFS staff are few and far between really. It's a shame really, so my first piece of advice is always to do some research and ask on forums for advice or opinions from more knowledgable members. That is a good first step.

Second, I recommend, if you can, get a decent water test kit. In the form if a liquid test kit, API FW Master Test Kit is decent enough and good value for money really. Do avoid paper dip strip kits, these are notoriously inaccurate.

Third, would advise you to rehome or take back your remaining two fish, I know you have been through a lot and is a bit upsetting but it IS for the best IMO. Two reasons for this, one is to clean out entirely your tank and filter as have no idea what that yellow growth is am afraid so might be worth replacing the filter media or cleaning thoroughly. Second reason, to do a Fishless cycle from scratch with a clean tank and filter will ensure any future fish/stocking you get will have a good chance of thriving.

Doing a Fishless cycle is much easier and less stressful for you and the fish/stocking, also quicker too.

You probably already have read this several times but this is truly a good way of getting a tank and filter ready with good bacteria for future fish.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

If you do decide to go with Fishless cycling, you will need some ammonia for the Fishless cycle process, this may give some idea what to look for and where you may get some.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/427161-ammonia-and-bacteria-starter-sources/

And finally, if you would rather keep the Betta, the suggestions of getting a small tank, 5 gals / 20 litres for the Betta is a good suggestion as daily water changes on that is easier however the neon would not be happy in that small tank really.

Whatever you decide on doing, do let us know and we'll try to advise as you go along. If you ever get stuck or unsure on anything, just post a question, simple as that.

 

[Perpetualcoolness]

Thank you, PrairieSunflower and Ch4rlie. I did ask the shop, when it all started going wrong, if they would take back the fish and they said they don't accept back fish but on this occasion they could take the betta, since it was their staff who sold it together with 7 other fish, including guppies and Mollies, which should not share a tank with a betta. My daughter loves the betta, that's the problem. We didn't start the fishless cycling in the new tank because we were only left with the betta and the neon in the 40L tank and as the tank seemed to stabilise and these two fish seem to be ok, I actually took back the second tank to the shop (unopened). Now, with this yellow growth, I am thinking we are not meant to have fish

PrairieSunflower, I will follow your suggestion and start another thread with the photo of the yellow growth, to see if any other members here know what it is.

Thank you, both, for your advice and your time.

 

[majerah1]

Welcome!
 
I am not sure what that yellow stuff could be, its a bit nasty looking.