New Fish - Only Two Survivors - Need Help/advise

[mbpted]

First the sad story:
I screwed up last week. We had 7 happy and healthy fish, but it was time to change the water. When I couldn't find the regular (clean) bucket to drain and swap out the old water, I used what must have been a contaminated container. The water turned milky white and within hours half the fish were dead and the other half dying. My research made me suspect I had introduced ammonia in the water. The local fish store said I should change the water. Slowly, 1/4 of the tank, once a day to not put any more undo stress on the remaining fish, but to dilute away the ammonia and make it safe again.

Alas, when we were down to two neon tetras, and one of them died, I immediately removed the survivor to a separate fish bowl with clean water, and removed the old water from the main tank, cleaned it with running water and a clean sponge (lots of rinsing), put in fresh water with a clean bucket and started from scratch.

We tested the water and even took in a sample to the store that confirmed that the water was "pristine" and my wife and daughter came home with a new batch - back to 7 including the surviving Tetra. They all looked happy and healthy, swimming in their new environment, but the next day, three of them were dead, by the end of the day, two more were gone. All that's left is our sturdy Neon Tetra from the first group and what I'm guessing is a Cichlid (a nickle sized fish, pinkish white in color). That, along with a Zebra Snail, are all that's left. And they don't look so good.

Tank size: 10 gal.
pH: 7.2
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 20
kH: 60
gH: 75
chlorine level: 0
tank temp: 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
Both the Tetra and Cichlid are treading water with a slight throb. They move around, but aren't really swimming. More like little spurts of energy, hiding behind plants or sticking to the corners of the tank. The Zebra snail was on his back - like a turtle. I've turned him shell side up, but he hasn't moved since he was added to the tank two days ago. I read online that a dead snail has a strong - bad - odor, but he smells okay to me, so I'm guessing he's still alive and just not ready to move yet.

Volume and Frequency of water changes:
Was changing the water once a month. But this is fresh water added two days ago.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
5 drops of Aqueon Water Conditioner to remove the chlorine.
5 drops of Tetra Pond Algae Control to remove green tint in water. (recommended by the fish store when the water became so murky we couldn't see the fish)

Tank inhabitants:
My daughter went out and bought one of several different species. I wasn't with her to write them down but there was a fancy guppie, a zebra danio, a rummy nose tetra and what I think was a gold mollie. I've already mentioned the Tetra, Cichlid and Zebra Snail. The last to die was a black Sail-fin Mollie, I pulled him out of the tank this morning. His last gasp, I'm guessing, was a flurry of quick laps around the tank yesterday afternoon, then he set himself down at the bottom and didn't get up again.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):
All the fish and snail, except for the Neon Tetra, were recent. Two days ago.

Exposure to chemicals:
Don't know. The water is clear as crystal right now. I don't have any tests other than a "Tetra EasyStrips" 6-in-1 Aquarium Test Strips. The results are listed above.


They don't seem to be interested in food. When I dropped some food in the water this morning, the Cichlid took a bite and spit it out again. We're feeding them "TetraMin" Tropical Flakes that we crush into very small pieces. The previous inhabitants loved this stuff.

We turn the aquarium light on in the morning and turn it off at night. (so about 12-14 hours with the light on)

In my recent research I've read that getting a bunch of different species is probably not the best idea, and that small schools (2 or 3) of the same fish are better. I'd like to get more, because, other than the last few tragically stressful days, they have been a wonderful addition to our home. I like to sit and watch them. But before I re-stock, I'd like some advise and and reassurance. I don't want to over crowd the tank and don't want to kill any more fish.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[the_lock_man]

Nasty experience for you.

The problem is that you don't know what the contaminant was - ammonia, even at what we consider high levels doesn't turn the water milky white. I don't know if it would turn the water white at mega-high levels, but I suspect that if you did have mega-high levels, then none of the fish would have survived at all. I'm wondering if there was some sort of weedkiller in the bucket? Further, I would suspect that whatever it was has wiped out your filter bacteria.

If I'm right, then it's likely that all the fish are suffering ammonia poisoning, as the filter needs to be cycled again.

The way to confirm this is to get an ammonia test done. I strongly suggest you bin those test strips, and invest in a decent liquid drop test kit, such as those made by Nutrafin and API. The strips aren't accurate enough for the position I think you may be in. If you can't get the test kit, then a single ammonia liquid test would suffice for the time being. If still not, then many LFS will test for you, but, and this is vital, get them to tell you the actual level in numbers, not just "yeah that's ok" or "hmm, it's a bit high". We need to know actual numbers.

If you are where I think you are, have a read of the link in the grey text in my signature area. It will tell you what you need to do, and why you need to do it. Suffice to say that monthly water changes are extremely inadequate (I change my fully mature tanks' water weekly).

Hope this helps.

 

[Essjay]

Just to add about the pics -
The one at the bottom is a black neon tetra (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi), a completely different species from the neon tetra (Paracheirodon innesi). When you get the problem sorted, if you want more make sure you get the same species.
The first pic doesn't look a like a cichlid to me, more like a white skirt tetra, the white form of the black skirt/black widow tetra (Gymnocorymbus ternetzi). These tetras are also schooling fish, but get too big for a 10 gallon tank.


While you getting the tank sorted, you should read this this http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/116208-recommendations-for-a-10-gallon/ . You are right when you say that schools are better than 1 each of different species, but the minimum number for schooling fish is 6 not 2 or 3, with more than 6 being even better.

 

[mbpted]

Thanks so much for the replies and advise. I will get the ammonia test, or have the water tested, and post the results as soon as possible.

One positive note: the Black Neon Tetra did eat some food this morning. Although he didn't actively hunt for the flakes, which is what he usually did, he grabbed at a few when they came within reach. Afterwards, he did a bit of swimming.

Both fish seem to be shocked by any change in the room, which I suspect is normal. (especially for stressed, or sick fish) So when I turned on the light, they both immediately darted for cover.

 

[fluttermoth]

They are going to be very shy, as they're not in large enough shoals. You and I know they're perfectly safe in your tank, but they don't. As far as they're concerned, the rest of their shoal is missing because there's a predator about, so they will want to hide.

Obviously you can't do anything about it while you're still cycling though.

P.S. Watch that widow tetra like a hawk; they can be very nippy if not in large shoals and could cause problems for your other fish.

 

[mbpted]

If I'm right, then it's likely that all the fish are suffering ammonia poisoning, as the filter needs to be cycled again.

The way to confirm this is to get an ammonia test done. I strongly suggest you bin those test strips, and invest in a decent liquid drop test kit, such as those made by Nutrafin and API. The strips aren't accurate enough for the position I think you may be in. If you can't get the test kit, then a single ammonia liquid test would suffice for the time being. If still not, then many LFS will test for you, but, and this is vital, get them to tell you the actual level in numbers, not just "yeah that's ok" or "hmm, it's a bit high". We need to know actual numbers.

I finally was able to find the API Ammonia NH3/NH4+ Test Kit. The last one in the store. After checking three Fish stores on the west side of LA. (amazing!) In any case, I did the test and the water looks like it's reading "0" or maybe "0.25." It's definitely in the yellow range. (see attached image)

The Nitrite levels still look good as well, but I'm still using the strips. I will look for a more comprehensive liquid tester, but wanted to show my progress.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Easy]

If I'm right, then it's likely that all the fish are suffering ammonia poisoning, as the filter needs to be cycled again.

The way to confirm this is to get an ammonia test done. I strongly suggest you bin those test strips, and invest in a decent liquid drop test kit, such as those made by Nutrafin and API. The strips aren't accurate enough for the position I think you may be in. If you can't get the test kit, then a single ammonia liquid test would suffice for the time being. If still not, then many LFS will test for you, but, and this is vital, get them to tell you the actual level in numbers, not just "yeah that's ok" or "hmm, it's a bit high". We need to know actual numbers.

I finally was able to find the API Ammonia NH3/NH4+ Test Kit. The last one in the store. After checking three Fish stores on the west side of LA. (amazing!) In any case, I did the test and the water looks like it's reading "0" or maybe "0.25." It's definitely in the yellow range. (see attached image)

The Nitrite levels still look good as well, but I'm still using the strips. I will look for a more comprehensive liquid tester, but wanted to show my progress.

Thanks again for the help.

I have that particular ammonia test and mine always looks the same. Never quite clear of zero it always looks like there is a little green tint. Get the API Master test kit. Even though it is made by the same manufacture the ammonia reading is more accurate.

 

[fluttermoth]

That is an API ammonia test, the same as in the Master kit. It needs to be read under natural daylight, with a test tube held about a cm in front of the card.

 

[This Old Spouse]

From the photo it looks closer to .5. While you're cycling your tank with fish (a fish-in cycle) you should be changing water every day, at least 50% and testing as well.

The pink skirt tetra is a naturally nippy fish as mentioned above, and 10g is too small. Best to rehome that one. When you do get more fish, stay away from neon tetras as they're very sensitive, particularly with newly set up tanks.

 

[mbpted]

From the photo it looks closer to .5. While you're cycling your tank with fish (a fish-in cycle) you should be changing water every day, at least 50% and testing as well.

The pink skirt tetra is a naturally nippy fish as mentioned above, and 10g is too small. Best to rehome that one. When you do get more fish, stay away from neon tetras as they're very sensitive, particularly with newly set up tanks.

I'll start a recycle of the water and see how the fish do. I'm a bit concerned about how I would rehome the Pink Skirt Tetra - short of trying to take him back to the store. I only have the one 10 gal tank. I have to make it work. Interesting that you would say the Neon Tetra as being sensitive. The Black Neon Tetra has survived the first and second wave of deaths. He seems very sturdy to me.

By the way - the Zebra Snail has yet to make a move. He was added to the water about 4 days ago, and flipped off of his back about 2 days ago. (I'll give him a sniff when I'm changing the water.)

Wish me luck, and thanks again for the help.

 

[mbpted]

From the photo it looks closer to .5. While you're cycling your tank with fish (a fish-in cycle) you should be changing water every day, at least 50% and testing as well.

The pink skirt tetra is a naturally nippy fish as mentioned above, and 10g is too small. Best to rehome that one. When you do get more fish, stay away from neon tetras as they're very sensitive, particularly with newly set up tanks.

I'll start a recycle of the water and see how the fish do. I'm a bit concerned about how I would rehome the Pink Skirt Tetra - short of trying to take him back to the store. I only have the one 10 gal tank. I have to make it work. Interesting that you would say the Neon Tetra as being sensitive. The Black Neon Tetra has survived the first and second wave of deaths. He seems very sturdy to me.

By the way - the Zebra Snail has yet to make a move. He was added to the water about 4 days ago, and flipped off of his back about 2 days ago. (I'll give him a sniff when I'm changing the water.)

Wish me luck, and thanks again for the help.

 

[Mauigirl]

That is an API ammonia test, the same as in the Master kit. It needs to be read under natural daylight, with a test tube held about a cm in front of the card.

I can take a good test and make it look bad if I hold it in an odd way.. I can also misread a bad to good, It is a learning curve.
personally I lay the tubes on a blank sheet of paper in good lighting, the supplied card could bleed color into the tube.. confusing? but worth it to learn what lighting , background works for you.
the Science still has wiggle room. so calm and experiment as you go..

 

[This Old Spouse]

From the photo it looks closer to .5. While you're cycling your tank with fish (a fish-in cycle) you should be changing water every day, at least 50% and testing as well.

The pink skirt tetra is a naturally nippy fish as mentioned above, and 10g is too small. Best to rehome that one. When you do get more fish, stay away from neon tetras as they're very sensitive, particularly with newly set up tanks.

Interesting that you would say the Neon Tetra as being sensitive. The Black Neon Tetra has survived the first and second wave of deaths. He seems very sturdy to me.

As said earlier, what you have is a black neon, which is actually different than a neon (blue), which are a bit more sensitive than the average fish in general. You've got quite the trooper there.

 

[Essjay]

There are three types of tetra with neon in the name.
Neon tetras and green neon tetras are related. These two types are very sensitive to water conditions and generally don't do well in new tanks even if the filter was cycled before getting them.
The third one is the black neon tetra. This is a completely different genus from the first two and isn't related to them. This fish is much hardier than the first two.

It is important when getting fish that you know exactly what you have. You have a black neon tetra, not a neon tetra, and it is one of the more hardy type.



The zebra snail - if it's been on its back for two days that's a bad sign. I have three zebra nerites in my main tank. If they fall on to their backs, they come out of their shells and try to grab on to something to pull themselves the right way up. If yours hasn't come out of its shell, it could well be dead. As you say, sniffing it is the way to find out if it's still alive. But be careful, dead snails stink very bad. If you take a huge sniff you'll have the smell in your nose for hours. Just take a cautious little sniff, preferably outdoors.

 

[mbpted]

It is important when getting fish that you know exactly what you have. You have a black neon tetra, not a neon tetra, and it is one of the more hardy type.

The zebra snail - if it's been on its back for two days that's a bad sign. I have three zebra nerites in my main tank. If they fall on to their backs, they come out of their shells and try to grab on to something to pull themselves the right way up. If yours hasn't come out of its shell, it could well be dead. As you say, sniffing it is the way to find out if it's still alive. But be careful, dead snails stink very bad. If you take a huge sniff you'll have the smell in your nose for hours. Just take a cautious little sniff, preferably outdoors.

I'm glad I posted the photos. My daughter took notes when she chose the fish but she was picking for beauty and variety. At the time, I didn't pay too much attention. I will going forward.

I took a nice long sniff of the snail and it smelled just fine, so I'm gonna assume it's still alive and is just waiting for some reason. Maybe he doesn't like the water any more than the fish do?

I did one 50% change of water yesterday evening, and tested the water again today. The ammonia level is definitely in the .5 range.
Would an "AmmoLock" product help in this process? At the very least, help make my two remaining fish more comfortable? I still don't see them eating anything when I feed them, so I'm kinda worried their going to starve themselves.

I will do another 50% water change later today.

Thanks again for all the help, this has been wonderfully supportive.