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New Filter....How long should I leave old in place.

Goose3080

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Hi, I added a new filter into my tank last weekend....The reason.....because I couldnt find the sponges anywhere for the old one I removed which were half the size of there original size, even after washing them, I had 2 filters running together, the one I removed and a Fluval 307, they were both running for approx a year, I removed some of the filter media from the filter I removed and put it into the new one, I eventually want to remove the fluval 307 too and just have the APS filter on its own, how long should I leave it for the new one to be fully cycled ?

The Fluval filter isnt plugged in, the APS filter is doing all the work, its just there to help with cycling the new filter.

Its running from tank to APS 1400EF to Fluval 307 back to tank.
 

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I usually go with 3 weeks to be sure. That's completely unscientific, but it has worked here.
 
From my fish keeping experience replacing the old filter with a new filter without changes to your fish tank is fine. The new filter should be nitrofied after a week or 2. Keep the old filter media for backup just incase, since I don't know the fish you got.
 
Hello Goose. There's bacteria growing on all surfaces inside your tank. So, if some is lost during the process of cleaning or replacing filters, the bacteria colony will replace what's lost in a very short time. When I change filters, I simply squeeze the contents of the old filter onto the new one. Of course, I'm in the habit of removing and replacing a lot of tank water and doing it weekly. So, my filters aren't working very hard. They're simply filtering clean water and moving it around the tank.

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If the old filter is not plugged in there's no water going through the filter so the bacteria in there won't be able to 'eat' any ammonia or nitrite. Both filters must be switched on.
Any media that can be moved to the new filter should be moved across.

Having said that, as others have pointed out, there are bacteria everywhere, not just in the filter. If there are live plants in the tank, the numbers of bacteria will be small. To give you an idea I once took a quarter of the media from my main tank to set up a quarantine tank for new fish. Luckily I added ammonia to the QT to test it before buying the fish and ended up doing a several week fishless cycle as there were so few bacteria in the media.
 
There is no way we can actually know where the bacteria actually are in our tanks. We can only make assumptions. What we can know is whether we have enough to do the job or we do not. For example there will be a difference in the location of most of the bacteria if one is running a bare bottom tank. It will change with the addition of live plants or the type of media we use in filters.

That said we can know a few things. The bacteria live in a biofilm that attaches them to a hard surface. Most of the bacteria do not move. But some small % can when it is needed. So where the will live in the greatest number is where they can get the most of what they need. This basically means ammonia/nitrite, oxygen, inorganic carbon and some iron. The other thing is they are photophobic. The darker it is, the better.

Next, we do not tend to see out bacteria as millions of individuals, we thing of them as a unified entity. Every day some number of individuals die and others are born via division. In a stable tank the births and deaths tend to equal out and the colony remains a stable size. What will change the size of the colony is ammonia. If we add more fish to a tank, more ammonia will be produced. The bacteria can sense there is more ammonia than they need and the reproduction rate will increase which results in the size of the colony increasing.

One the other hand of you remove a number of the fish the amount of ammonia being produced will decline. Again, the bacteria sense this and the rate of reproduction slows. More individuals will die than are being "born." So what happens in our tanks in terms of the bacteria is the colony will always size to the ammonia load.

When we put another filter on an established tank it does nothing to increase the number of bacteria. But, most filters are a good place for bacteria to live. Some or those motile individuals will find their way into the media in the new filter. They will multiply there while in other places in the tank which get less of wheat the bacteria need, they will die back faster. The net result is it appears as if the bacteria have moved, in reality they hand not. The amount of working bacteria in the tank will remain the same as no more ammonia is being created.

So, depending on the nature of an existing tank, some bacteria will "move" into the new filter and out pf other places. Since we cannot see them, when we remove one filter to another tank. we have no idea how many are being moved and how many are left behind. This makes it imperative that we test both tanks for ammonia for a bit after moving the filter to a new tank.

I have developed my own way of seeding filters and moving things around. It is not the filter that does the filtration, it is the bacteria. They live in the media, in the substrate, on the darker areas of rock and even wood. I also know that under optimal conditions the ammonia ones need about 8 hours to double in number and the nitrite ones take a few hours more. What this means to me is that if I only move 1/4 of the bacteria that the old tank will handle the fish load completely withing about 3 hours. I also know that the spikes will be smaller and will decrease fairly fast.

So, I prefer either to move some media to a new filter or, because I have enough tanks, to rinse out the media from a few of them into the new tank. I leave the lights off and run the filter. That bacteria will get into the media and the substrate. But, there may not be enough bacteria to add if one doesn't have several tanks.

So, I have two option. I can start to stock slowly or I can act to increase the number of bacteria. I do this by dosing ammonia like i would in a fishless cycle. But, this is different than a normal fishless cycle because we already have 25% of both type living in a biofilm already and quickly attached to surfaces. What we do know is that whatever amount of ammonia can be processed into nitrite by the bacteria we moved over, there are sufficient bacteria to process that nitrite. So of we increase the ammonia level in the tank, both types will be reproduce at the same time. The sequence of ammonia first and then nitrite next no longer exists. And this speeds up the process a great deal.

Where it might take 5- 6 weeks to cycle the same tank from scratch, a 1/3the jump start of both bacteria means inside of 2 days we could have the tank fully cycled. But, since we cannot really know how much bacteria we started with, we can not know how long it will take them to double. But our test kits will tell us when they have done so. In most cases 2 ppm of ammonia is more than enough to ready the new tank unless the pH is over 8.0. The makes the ammonia more toxic and the higher from there it gets the more deadly the same level of ammonia will become. If you have higher pH water, use 3 ppm.

What you want to see either way is that you can add that amount of ammonia to the new tank and 24 hours later you can test 0/0 for ammonia and nitrite. That is the only way to learn for sure how safe from ammonia the tank may be.

One caveat if you do live plants, some of them are not able to tolerate elevated ammonia. However, they do consume it as ammonium. So, in such a tank I would not exceed 2 ppm of ammonia. And. for a few plant species which most of us do not keep, even 2 ppm is too much. I would hope if you are keeping such plants you know most of this already.

The point here is we can never know the quantity involved in a tank or where in the tank it is when it comes to the bacteria. Our test kits are all we have to get an answer. If there is enough bacteria present, the readings are 0. if there is not enough, we will get readings above 0. The level of such readings and a bit more info (pH and temp.). will show us what we should do.
 
What a thorough little article TwoTank,

I always assume that 80% and even more in smaller tanks, of the total colony resides in the filters.

Since in most cases the rest of the tank is much less hospitable to theses bacteria.
 
Actually, if one has substrate in their tank the odds are good a lot of the bacteria live there. If you read Dr. Hovanec's directions for how to set up and cycle a tank he says this in his

Quick Guide to Fishless Cycling with One & Only
Is your tank bare-bottom? – if your tank does not have substrate (gravel or crushed coral) on the bottom this is called a bare-bottom tank and they take longer to cycle because there is not very much substrate for the bacteria to adhere to. If you are setting-up a quarantine tank and do not want to use a traditional substrate consider adding some inert glass rock or marbles or some other non-calcium-based media to the tank bottom. This will help cycle the tank faster.

A fair amount of the bacteria in our tanks is not in the filters, it is elsewhere in the tank and the substrate is an optimal place for them to colomize. However, You will only find them in unplanted substrates in the top inch at most since below there there is not enough oxygen which they require. In all of his research into the tank bacteria, Dr. H. collected them from both the filters and the substrate of established tanks.

It is possible, to an extent,to position ones' bacteria where one prefers then to be. I want mine to be more in the filters than the substrate. To accomplish I tend to vac a bit deeply into the substrate which removes some of the bacteria there. On the other hand I tend to rinse certain filters less often. I clean my Mattenfilters only after years and my Poret cubefilters I clean only every 4-5 weeks. I am careful with hang-ons to rinse media gently and I may only rinse their pre-filters in some tanks at times. I do not vac my planted communities but my tanks with no plants get a substrate vac every week. I have run bare a few botton tanks for my plecos, But they are filled with caves, rocks and wood. These also can host the bacteria as long as they offer surfaces out of the light. However, it has been some time since I went barebottom. I became a sand person some years back.

By doing the above I am removing more bacteria from the substrate than from the filter when I do weekly maint.. The remaining bacteria will fairly quickly reproduce to replace the lost indivuduals. Since there should be relativel more left in the filters than the substrate, they should also gain more from the reproducion. Over time I am trying to "force" more bacteria to be in the filter media than the substrate than would naturally occur. I think, but cannot say for sure, that what I try to do in this regard works. But is makes sense that it should to some degree.
 

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