New Community Tank Planned

[john5748]

I have gravel at the moment and find that when I use the gravel suction cleaner it lifts the debris up and drops the gravel back to settle, how does this work with sand. surely the sand would get sucked up also???

 

[littlefishie]

You don't actually put the gravel vac into the sand, try reading the pinned topic and you'll figure out how to do it.

 

[Iron Man]

I really hate to put them with gravel but don't want to put sand in a tank I'm going to be putting live plants in down the road. If I do put the plants in later I definately do not want to have to completely switch substrates.

Um, why would you have to switch substrates for live plants?
Live plants work perfectly well with sand and fluorite as a base.. I've got mine in just black sand and they've been like that for 4 months now with no complications whatsoever. The cories stir up the sand enough for the plants, so the sand doesn't compact too much. I also try to stir it a bit during water changes to prevent buildups of anerobic gases.

I've only heard from a couple of people that sand was ok for plants. I wonder what the longterm effects are for live plants rooted in sand. I would think sand and flourite doesn't look all that hot together?

For me anyway....and how would nutrients get to the plants? What kind of black sand are you using if you don't mind my asking? Are you using iron and other supplementation? I would think that nutrients (fish waste) couldn't get to the plant roots.

For the other concern about syphoning sand....you wave it over the top of the sand just enough to pull up the waste that's sitting on the top. Takes some getting used to but it turns out to be easier once you get the hang of it.

I don't know...maybe I should consider putting sand back in....as I've said before all options are still open as there are no fish in yet and I'm trying to do it right the first time.

 

[Mr Miagi]

Man, i have never looked back since i put in sand, best move i eva made, and my plants deffinately preffer it too!

As for syphoning, i put my vac in the sand, and the suction is not enough to draw it though before it sinks back down. Althoiugh i dont clean the sand evry week, i do syphon off detritus from the top almost evryweek or two. Depending on your type and style i spose.

 

[littlefishie]

I've only heard from a couple of people that sand was ok for plants. I wonder what the longterm effects are for live plants rooted in sand. I would think sand and flourite doesn't look all that hot together?

For me anyway....and how would nutrients get to the plants? What kind of black sand are you using if you don't mind my asking? Are you using iron and other supplementation? I would think that nutrients (fish waste) couldn't get to the plant roots.

It'd be a bottom layer of fluorite, and then a layer of sand on top.

Nutrients, honestly.. I don't get that scientific with the plants. I use my DIY Co2, the plants grow, and I'm happy. The Co2 is the only supplementation.

Sand = Hagen Geosystem sand, about $7CAD for a 4.4lb bag..
When I set up my new tank it'll be black Tahitian Moon Sand, which is $30CAD for a 20lb bag.

 

[Iron Man]

If I use sand I may as well use some darker colored substrate with some iron in it to get me started so I was looking at Onyx substrates. I noticed they have a "sand" and "gravel". I am wondering if someone can tell me if cories will "dig" this particular sand, pun intended. hehe They would be the reason I'd be going for sand in the first place, and the colors of the neons would really radiate with the darker substrate. I think silica sand would overpower their colors a little too much. What do you guys think?

It probably is best not to get TOO scientific with this initially...if I get a deficiency somewhere all I have to do is pinpoint what it is and add it to the water....which I'll have to do eventually no matter what substrate I use. I already have 6700K 40 watt T-12 bulbs powered by a couple of shop light fixtures....they give plenty of light and the plants should take to that for now.

 

[Iron Man]

OHHH wait I had an idea....since I really "dig" tahitian moon myself, hehe....I was thinking I could put that on top of some eco-complete or onyx! The colors should blend nicely don't ya think?

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Iron Man

With corys it's important to have a sand or gravel substrate that has rounded edges so their delicate barbels are not injured. These are sensory organs that help them find their food and if they are damaged their entire health is likely to be impaired. Any kind of crushed rock, that could have sharp bits in it would not be suitable, nor would large pebbles that the corys would not be able to move.

Children's play sand is often used in cory tanks because it is safe enough for little children, with their fragile skin, to have in their sand boxes.

 

[littlefishie]

That would definitely work, as long as eco-complete is your bottom layer.

And the sand I use, Hagen Geosystem, it's an allnatural product. It has buffering capacities to push my water from a pH of 7.2 to a pH of 7.4, but I think it might be part of the reason my plants grow like weeds.. with the naturalness or something, I guess.. It's 2am and I've been awake since 7, so bear with me..

 

[Mr Miagi]

I havnt bothered with any nutrient rich substrate. I have sand, and plants dig it. But i do know that plants can be better off with it.

A heater cable is always another option too. ALthough expensive, they realy do help your plants tremendoulsy.

(Cant sleep eh LF )

 

[sylvia]

Ok don't take my word for it as I am no plant expert but I believe plants actualy like the anaerobic conditions provided by sand. Also, most of the common aquatic plants don't take up many nutrient from their roots in the first place so adding one of those plant food stick/pellet thingies into the sand should do for those that do require nutrient-rich substrate.

 

[Iron Man]

I did not think of that inchwom, thanks for pointing that out. So I guess my onyx bottom/tahitian moon top idea works out in more ways than one.

Reading up some more on the issue I've discovered there is a method of using a heating cable under a deep sand bed, like they use in saltwater tanks. The heater cable pulls nutrients into the deep rooted substrate yet the deep sand bed allows just enough anaerobic conditions to occur for the plants' benefit. Pretty interesting stuff.

I'll probably just go with a reasonable amount of said substrate though.

 

[Iron Man]

OK

I'm thinking that since this tank is eventually going to be heavily planted or at least I want the bottom covered with green carpet, even if I have to make some "patches" of bare sand for the cories to dig around in.....the color of the substrate isn't going to so much matter.

That brings me to the fact that, after seeing lots of photos/pics of neons with or without various other fish in heavily planted tanks, they don't look as impressive as I was maybe thinking they would be. 17 wouldn't hardly be enough to make an impressive school, so I thought maybe 40 would do the trick. The only problem with that is, from the pics that I've seen and after observing them enough in person, the more heavily planted a tank is and the larger the number, the less they school. I don't want them if they're not going to school.

I'm thinking of ditching the neons. If I ditch the neons....maybe I could substitute them for 6 angels? But then wouldn't I have to ditch the shrimp? Would they leave them alone? I really want a variety in this tank yet at the same time would really like some larger fish in there too. Maybe rainbows are another option. What would be safe and medium to large with the following fish?

12 hatchetfish

12 harlequin rasboras

9 cory cats

3 apple snails

12 ghost shrimp

4 african dwarf frogs

2 freshwater clams (for now to see how they fair)

Any advice?

 

[Iron Man]

Oh and another thing.....I've read that neons look much better surrounded by black with subdued lighting....my tank has a black background but again inside the tank its going to be mostly green and it will be brightly lit (4 x 40 watt 5000-6500K).

My thinking is...neons are either going to literally sparkle or they are going to be "washed out". Anyone with experience in this?

 

[Mr Miagi]

I havnt had experience with the neons, but i do know if u provide Harliquins with good conditions, they have fantastic colour like mine. They schoal well, and even in a larger bunch.

Are you interested in gouramis?