New Baby Bala Shark

[Aquascaper]

It may be the store buys the feeder fish in much larger quantities than their tropical stock therefore need larger storage for them.

As dbanner said the fish are not usually in the shop tanks for very long, their business is to sell fish so they will want them sold as soon as possible. This unfortunately is what leads to fish being sold to people with inadequate setups, the store cares about moving stock and not so much about what happens to it afterwards.

Until you get to know staff/owners of LFS take everything they say with a pinch of salt and do your own research before committing to a purchase, afterall their business is to sell fish not to see them lead full and exciting lives.

 

[grayshark1956]

I have to say I don't think Wills was harsh at all.

You asked for advice and were given it from a reliable source (this forum) but then carried on looking until you found the answer you wanted [I did ask and did find answer about them reaching 6" so I tried] and went ahead and bought the fish. If you look hard enough you'll always find an answer to support whatever decision you're making whether it's correct or not. It sounds like the decision had already been made before Wills got involved and I share his annoyance when situations like this occur, why should people waste their time replying to things if it's a forgone conclusion.

grayshark1956 is not the first, and certainly won't be the last, to do this and it's one of the reasons important members leave forums. It's not a case of 'I know best so listen to me and do as I say' it's a case of the member replying having a genuine concern for something about to go horribly wrong.

Research is the key, find out from as many sources as possible and make your own judgement from the results, but don't go with the advice from 1 source that tells you it's ok when the other 20 say no.

It's horrible to be told you can't do something you want to but this isn't about spending money on a frivolous item of merchandise, this about making a commitment to safeguard the wellbeing of a live animal which may be around for years. No-one can predict the future either so buying a fish with the intention of upgrading the tank is another common annoyance, what if something happens and circumstances change and your left stuck with a soon-to-be-monster fish in a small tank.....there's only one outcome and that's an unhealthy fish.

Apologies for the rant

Well, the bala went back today and was placed in that tiny aquarium mixed with red tails that are constantly chasing all of the balas. They will not separate them and yet, put feeder goldfish in a huge tank that is four times as big. Getting back to the bala post you wrote, No I was not going to let a fish get real big and keep him in this tank, I had explained I would get a larger tank but could not do it right now as people expected, there would have been enough time to get that tank. But, he went back, hope their balas are sold before they grow. I would have had about 6 mos to get another tank, just read they should be kept in shoals of 6, then maybe 2, and then 3. So, its easy for some people to get wrong info, and the more I read the more I either know or I find too many conflicting opinions.

Years ago we had a 20 gal tank with assorted fish plus a tiny pleco. No one told us how big they get, we had no computer or fish books at the time. We asked if he was compatible and what he required. Were misinformed. This fish grew to about 12" but it took years, maybe 3-5 for that growth and I said he had to go to a store. Luckily, I knew an employee at a very nice fish store that was not a box-type store, and they put this pleco in a 100 gallon tank and I was relieved for him, he could swim, but he usually sat still. At least he felt better being in that much space. So, now I try and buy small fish that are not going to be huge. I did ask and read balas get to 6" then took advice here and returned him.

 

[grayshark1956]

When in stores, yes they are in very small tanks but the fish are not in those tanks for very long before they get purchased and then hopefully get put in suitable tanks by their new owners. This is an ideal scenario... But, this isn't always the case. There are times, more often than not that fish get purchased and but into unsuitable tanks.

Now that could be due to a staff member giving the customer wrong or misleading information as what happened to yourself... Or... It could be down to the customer just "wanting" that particular fish regardless of whether they have the right size tank to accommodate that fish' needs.

As wills said "research before you buy".. Since I joined this forum iv come to realise just how many fish stores there are out there that DON'T have the fish' long term health in mind and they are just there to sell to you.. Harsh but true, and so I now research any fish I'm interested in beforehand. Saves you a lot hassle in the long run too

We have all made mistakes at some point but this forum and its members can make those mistakes a lot less frequent

I explained I was going to get a larger tank but could not do it as fast as people requested, it could have waited a week or two. I read about them and found I would have had about 6 mos to do this, but decided to return him. And like you said I was misinformed and read they grew to 6" then later some said keep them in groups of 2,3 or 6. I still don't know about grouping them because I'm not going to have one anyway. But, I did try to find out the bala's size first, still want one, but won't get one. I'll stick with my smaller tropicals, they all get along well. I hope someone will give me credit for returning him and know I was not going to confine a 14" fish in a 10 gal tank. And like you said, stores sell all kinds of pets and are not able to explain care or don't have answers. I don't know why they don't post a fact sheet if they don't know then they could refer to a written guide for buyers.

 

[grayshark1956]

It may be the store buys the feeder fish in much larger quantities than their tropical stock therefore need larger storage for them.

As dbanner said the fish are not usually in the shop tanks for very long, their business is to sell fish so they will want them sold as soon as possible. This unfortunately is what leads to fish being sold to people with inadequate setups, the store cares about moving stock and not so much about what happens to it afterwards.

Until you get to know staff/owners of LFS take everything they say with a pinch of salt and do your own research before committing to a purchase, afterall their business is to sell fish not to see them lead full and exciting lives.

You mentioned a very good point. But, the feeder goldfish (even stocked in larger quantities) could have been exchanged out to the smaller tanks so balas could have been housed in larger tank. I would do that if I worked there. I noticed stores will take a 75 or 100 gal tank, put 400 lbs of coral or rock in it, and maybe 4 small fish. Can't the rock and coral be divided into smaller tanks? I don't mean all of it, some pieces are big but some aren't. The coral and rock wouldn't mind, all that holds still and just needs to be in the water. If I owned a store myself, I would probably keep fish the opposite way I see them kept now. I wish stores would see it that way, but they don't. They do want to sell fish like you said.

 

[grayshark1956]

Bala Sharks are a really bad fish in the hobby they are incredibly active get huge and in the wild swim in huge swarms all over Asia and dont stay in a small area like some other fish in the hobby.

A tank to keep them fairly would be in the region of 8 foot long and at least 2 - 3 foot wide.

A much much better alternative are Rose Line Sharks AKA Denison Barbs which are similar to these, but have a splash of red to them and also a black and yellow tail. They only get to around 6-7 inches and do better in home aqauria long term as well.

Wills

But, if a bala gets that big than I really can't have one, will substitute another type of shark fish. I am glad you wrote back and gave me info on this shark you mentioned. I guess I could only get a red tail shark when I am able.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/405569-shark-talk/

Why after our lengthy chat did you just ignore me and get you and this poor fish into a whole world of trouble... Seriously if you were not going to listen I wish you would have told me that way I would have just left you to it rather than waste my time writing lengthy explanations as to why the way you are keeping fish is wrong and by doing so trying to avoid you loosing fish, wasting money and adding even more stress...

I am amazed the stores don't care which fish are put together! No brochures, no books, no guides for shoppers, either.

I am going to read about them and find out how compatible they are. He's doing fine so far, he will certainly be glad to be away from the red tail sharks.

Is that not just totally contradictory... research before you buy and learn from it. Infact no, you were explained to at length about why bala sharks are a bad idea for you and still got one, when I explained about them being huge swarming fish from asia you still went and got one.

I am sorry if this comes across as harsh, I know from our previous chat that things are tough for you but you need to take stuff like this on board.


But once again...

Please take this advice on board as so far all you have done is dismiss it

Wills

Is it my computer or are posts supposed to be listed twice? I did take your advice and returned bala today. What people did not realize is that I kept repeating I was going to get a larger tank, there was enough time, he would not grow that fast! I would not have kept a fish that large in a 10 gal tank anyway, and I asked first. How can we end the bala topic? I don't want to keep explaining myself and have people saying I didn't take advice, I really did, he is back at the store.

 

[grayshark1956]

So when are you getting a 12x3x3 foot tank for this Bla Shark, along with ~9 other conspecifics? In all seriousness, this is what these fish need, they are very active skittish fish that can easily reach 40cm.

Good advice as usual there and you explained it better than I did yet you used fewer words lol

I'll repeat again in case you missed it: I returned the bala today, I could not get a large tank as fast as people expected, this could have waited a week or two but people made it sound urgent. This fish had 6 months to grow even to 6" that I read about thismorning. This was not an emergency, but I returned him. I don't have any balas, didn't buy anymore fish, am so tired I am going to go lay down. I hope I don't see any more posts about balas, he's back at the store in that little tiny aquarium being picked on by many red tails. He would have been happier here in a large tank but I could not get it within 24 hours of buying him, no more bala here. I took advice.

When you think about it, it wouldn't have been that bad to buy him then a week or so later put him into larger tank, he would have gotten away from the red tails that were chasing all the balas. But I took him back even though this was not a true emergency. Now if a fish stops breathing and is having body spasms, that would be worse. I am just pointing out that the bala would have been fine going into a larger tank next week, then I could have had 2 of them. Does anyone understand my intention and that I took advice?

I think I'll start a post on how many ways there are to fix chicken.....hope there is someone with a sense of humor that read my posts and thought that putting a bala in a larger tank was a pretty good idea.

 

[grayshark1956]

That's what I'd thought only the profile in the fish species index says at least three?

They need groups of 6+ and ALOT more than 75 gal (280 litres). Ideally they need tanks a minimum of 8ft in length x 3ft wide and 2-3ft high. Not only because they get to around 14inches and they need to be in groups of 6+ but also because try are such fast and active swimmers. Not really a fish for the average home aquarium.

As this one is only 2-3 inches at the moment it may be ok in a smaller tank... Say 100-125 gallons but will soon need to be moved on to a bigger tank to give it the space it needs. Especially when you take into account the other 5 to make the minimum size group

Thank you for writing (on my bahalf) and I was going to get a larger tank, he would have been fine in my tank for a week or two. They don't grow to 14" in a few days, probably takes a year or so, but anyway, I returned him today. I was not able to run to the store and get a huge tank as soon as I got him, he was only maybe 2.5" long at the most, he liked my tank with the banana plants and my fish were not picking on him. I think he would have been happier here, but he's back at the store. I must go to bed soon, had 3 hours of sleep last night. Thanks for writing about bala being ok in my tank for a short while, I'm glad you said he would have been ok here. Thanks!

 

[dbanner]

Credit where credit is due... You did rehome the Bala and that was the right thing to do

Yes you keep repeating yourself and saying you would of gotten a bigger tank for it so your intentions were good... But, that tank as stated by myself and "NOTG" would of needed to been huge.. Like 12ftx3x3 for a group of around 10 as "NOTG" said you may have for away with slightly smaller if you got a smaller group but that's missing the point... These fish need large groups and therefore very large tanks to do well and so the average fish keeper can't accommodate their needs. As they are so smaller when being sold a lot of people don't realise their potential size an requirements. Iv seen loads of threads on here with people falling into the trap from local fish stores selling them in insufficient numbers to people with tanks too small for them. Like the others members have said, fish stores just want to make a sale and they will do pretty much anything to get it. It's harsh but when that fish leaves their store a lot of them couldn't care less what happens... The best one I like that you come across a lot is when fish stores test your tank water for you an then they just say "yes, your tank water is FINE"... What is "fine"? Then they will sell you bottled formulas that will apparently improve that "fine" water..

Like I said, you did the right thing by rehoming the Bala, hopefully someone will come along and purchase them and they will have a huuuge tank waiting

 

[grayshark1956]

Congratulations. I hope you know they grow to about 12-16", not 6". Make sure you tank is big enough.

You might come a lot closer to owning a shark than you were hoping

I probably forgot to write to you from being tired, but, just the thought of having my own shark is a dream come true. If I knew someone at the zoo real well I'd ask to go in their shark tank, but, even their tank is way too small for the 3 reef sharks they have. The poor things constantly swim in a circle, over and over. Its like the hamsters without a wheel thing. If I went in that tank there wouldn't be enough room for my feet its so small. I feel bad for those sharks. I'd even like to hand feed them but they seem like they can't stop the continuous circle swimming, they've become over stressed or psychotic, I would be, too! Each shark is about 5' long and their tank is smaller than my kitchen.

 

[grayshark1956]

Credit where credit is due... You did rehome the Bala and that was the right thing to do

Yes you keep repeating yourself and saying you would of gotten a bigger tank for it so your intentions were good... But, that tank as stated by myself and "NOTG" would of needed to been huge.. Like 12ftx3x3 for a group of around 10 as "NOTG" said you may have for away with slightly smaller if you got a smaller group but that's missing the point... These fish need large groups and therefore very large tanks to do well and so the average fish keeper can't accommodate their needs. As they are so smaller when being sold a lot of people don't realise their potential size an requirements. Iv seen loads of threads on here with people falling into the trap from local fish stores selling them in insufficient numbers to people with tanks too small for them. Like the others members have said, fish stores just want to make a sale and they will do pretty much anything to get it. It's harsh but when that fish leaves their store a lot of them couldn't care less what happens... The best one I like that you come across a lot is when fish stores test your tank water for you an then they just say "yes, your tank water is FINE"... What is "fine"? Then they will sell you bottled formulas that will apparently improve that "fine" water..

Like I said, you did the right thing by rehoming the Bala, hopefully someone will come along and purchase them and they will have a huuuge tank waiting

Oh thank you, I was going to go to bed but just found your post. I would have liked 2 of them in a larger tank but decided to return him. He will probably end up in someone else's 10 gal tank and get big and I just hope that owner gets him more space. I had my tank water tested just to see what they'd say and I was given a paper with answers in numbers. I don't have it here by my table but like you said, they told me my water "was fine." I looked at the paper and there was one number that was low and they asked if I had just done a water change, and I did a partial one, then was told that was why this number was low, nothing to worry about. But I see what you mean about selling people bottles of stuff to help their fine water. I have several things here in case I need them like ammonia safe, clearwater, easy balance, start zyme, a pH one, and always have tons of de-chlorinator. I have extra filter cartridges, rocks, heater, air stone, etc. Also many kinds of food. That reminds me I better feed my RCC's, they are lined up on that driftwood as if they are looking at me. I am glad you wrote, especially the water testing. It still bothers me the store would not separate the balas from the red tails. The bala I had here was very peaceful, I'll miss him.

 

[dbanner]

It's out of your hands now.. If the stores decides to tell the next customer that the Bala will be fine in a 10 gal then so be it... If that person happens to be a member on here then there are enough knowledgeable people here more than happy to give them advice as they have done with you and anyone else that's been in need of some guidance

Ok some it does sound like you have a lot of stuff there, most of which I'd consider a waste... So I'll just give you a quick run down of my tanks

120gal (US gal) - 5ft long 450 litres...
2 x tetratec ex1200 external filters
1 x 300watt hydor external heater
Sand substrate, few rocks and few bits of wood.
I have a 5" dovii in there right now but this is only because it came with a tank my cousin bought 2nd hand and he was going to flush it down the toilet so I had to take it off his hands. The dovii will be going in a 210gal (US) 8ft 800 litre in January or feb.

40gal (US) - 4ft long 160 litres
1 x fluval 205 external filter
1 x 200watt internal heater
Few rocks
I have a 5" blue thai silk flowerhorn in this tank temp until he can go back into the 120gal after the dovii has been moved to the bigger tank.

I do 50% weekly water changes and gravel vac on both tanks and the only thing I add, and have ever added (although i added protozin once to clear 1 case of fungal infection) to my water is a good dechlorinater... I use seachem prime.

Iv never had any problems doing things the way I do, this is what I mean by shops will try and sell you anything.

As for the water readings.. As an example, my readings on both my tanks are,
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20
PH 8.2
Temp 27 degrees c (80F)

Hope this helps you to understand the kind of things to look for

 

[Crossfire]

greyshark, how big is the tank and what are the inhabitants?
Maybe a school of Silver Apollo Sharks will satisfy your sharky needs

 

[raptorrex]

Is it my computer or are posts supposed to be listed twice? I did take your advice and returned bala today. What people did not realize is that I kept repeating I was going to get a larger tank, there was enough time, he would not grow that fast! I would not have kept a fish that large in a 10 gal tank anyway, and I asked first. How can we end the bala topic? I don't want to keep explaining myself and have people saying I didn't take advice, I really did, he is back at the store.

personally i think wills was charitable.

he warned you before you bought, yet you still went ahead.
its that old chestnut. "I'll be getting a bigger tank soon/later/when space allows".
it rarely happens, and turns into mañana

I think the tread should be kept open.
to remind you, and others that read it, to listen to the advice they came to ask for.

I to spent some years "going my own way". turns out the advice i was ignoring was right.
in only one case did i find it to be incorrect.

always buy fish for the equipment you have NOW.

 

[dbanner]

Is it my computer or are posts supposed to be listed twice? I did take your advice and returned bala today. What people did not realize is that I kept repeating I was going to get a larger tank, there was enough time, he would not grow that fast! I would not have kept a fish that large in a 10 gal tank anyway, and I asked first. How can we end the bala topic? I don't want to keep explaining myself and have people saying I didn't take advice, I really did, he is back at the store.

personally i think wills was charitable.

he warned you before you bought, yet you still went ahead.
its that old chestnut. "I'll be getting a bigger tank soon/later/when space allows".
it rarely happens, and turns into mañana

I think the tread should be kept open.
to remind you, and others that read it, to listen to the advice they came to ask for.

I to spent some years "going my own way". turns out the advice i was ignoring was right.
in only one case did i find it to be incorrect.

always buy fish for the equipment you have NOW.

I'm in a similar position now... Although I didn't buy a fish that was unsuitable for the tanks I have, I took it off my cousin because like I said in my previous post as he was going to kill it and I couldn't let that happen.

Iv planned to get my 210gal for quite sometime now but seeing as Christmas is just around the corner and I have an 8 year old daughter that wants everything imaginable, the tank is now on hold. It will be with me around January/february after Christmas is out of the way... I was going to leave it a little longer but means I got this 5" dovii now that needs bigger than a 120gal I can't chance leaving it. That, and the sooner I get the 210 the sooner my flowerhorn can have his 120 back lol poor guy is in a 40 till then.. Although he's only just hit 5"

These things sometimes happen unannounced and we can only do the best we can at that given time. Although in this case I do agree with you as wills did give the OP advice beforehand and you can always Guarentee that wills advice will be spot on.

I think this was just a case of mixed information and the OP was just confused as to which info to take at the time. This case could of gone better yes... But, it could also have gone a lot worse.

 

[Aquascaper]

always buy fish for the equipment you have NOW.

Exactly, if you want a particular fish and don't have the setup for it then spend the time and money getting it before you get the fish. Put the fish in and enjoy watching it grow into the tank over the years.

I face the same sort of issues in my job as a landscape gardener, customers want their new garden to look full & mature from the start and are not prepared to wait for things to grow. They ask for large plants to be put in that will ultimately be too big when fully grown but because they don't want an 'empty' garden for a few years they cram as many plants in as possible and just throw them out as the garden gets overgrown.

In dbanner's case it was a mercy misson with little or no prior warning but knowing all about the fish and having the means to get the correct setup means it was the right decision.