New Aquarium - Fish Dying

[Katty]

Yikes! Thats some nasty tap water. It could also be the chloramines in there throwing the test off, can't tell for sure though.
I think your best bet now would be to fully cycle the tank fishlessly. Once that is complete, and you add fish of course you'll still need to do your regular water changes to remove built up nitrates and fish waste. Since your water has ammonia in it you'll end up inadvertently adding ammonia to the tank when you do a water change, but since the filter would then be cycled the ammonia will be naturally removed. It might be a good idea to continue using a water conditioner with ammonia neutralizer so that when you do have to do a water change it's not so toxic.

Edit: I was doing some research and I came across this article here. Check under the "Chloramine" heading, it has a couple possible solutions for what I think may be the underlying problem here.

 

[CrustyOnEastCoast]

Thanks for your help. Since all of my fish are dead, I am going to go ahead and perform
a fishless cycle. Meanwhile that will give me time to research this dechlorination issue, pick a better combination of fish. etc..

I just tested the ammonia level on my tap water AFTER applying the dechlorinator, and the result was
the same! Ammonia - 2ppm. The dechlorinator claims it will "detoxify ammonia". I would think that
would mean change it to ammonium or something. maybe it is not working.

I am going to ask a specific dechlorination question in a different thread.

 

[jv24]

do a fishless cycle there are some good posts on here to tell you how to do a fishless cycle. Keep looking on this forum, you will be amazed what knowledge you will pick up. Good luck

 

[Katty]

The dechlorinator claims it will "detoxify ammonia". I would think that
would mean change it to ammonium or something. maybe it is not working.

Detoxified ammonia (ammonium) will still show up on a test because while it's in a different, harmless form, it is still close enough to ammonia that the test is unable to distinguish between the two. The test can't tell the difference between the two forms so it could be showing either ammonia, ammonium, or both in any proportion that adds up to whatever the test is showing.

So you could have 1 ppm ammonium in a tank, detoxify all of it by turning it into ammonium, but the test would still show 1 ppm of "ammonia". The only way to make that stop showing up on the test and giving you "false" readings is change the water (for water without ammonia or ammonium, which you don't have at this point) or have a biological filter filter it out.

 

[notg2009]

Thanks for your help. Since all of my fish are dead, I am going to go ahead and perform
a fishless cycle. Meanwhile that will give me time to research this dechlorination issue, pick a better combination of fish. etc..

I just tested the ammonia level on my tap water AFTER applying the dechlorinator, and the result was
the same! Ammonia - 2ppm. The dechlorinator claims it will "detoxify ammonia". I would think that
would mean change it to ammonium or something. maybe it is not working.

I am going to ask a specific dechlorination question in a different thread.

The dechlorinator claims it will "detoxify ammonia". I would think that
would mean change it to ammonium or something. maybe it is not working.

Detoxified ammonia (ammonium) will still show up on a test because while it's in a different, harmless form, it is still close enough to ammonia that the test is unable to distinguish between the two. The test can't tell the difference between the two forms so it could be showing either ammonia, ammonium, or both in any proportion that adds up to whatever the test is showing.

So you could have 1 ppm ammonium in a tank, detoxify all of it by turning it into ammonium, but the test would still show 1 ppm of "ammonia". The only way to make that stop showing up on the test and giving you "false" readings is change the water (for water without ammonia or ammonium, which you don't have at this point) or have a biological filter filter it out.

I checked my tap water and I was surprised too; there is ammonia in there and my API master test kit shows concentrations between 0.25-0.50 ppm. I googled it and found this link: http/fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-tapwater.html

The article recommended Amquel, so I checked it up at petco's and Petsmart's websites and came across these products: Kordon Amquel Plus Water Conditioner and Kordon AmQuel Plus Ammonia Detoxifier. I think instead of using something that only detoxifies chlorine and breaks chloramine bond (that releases ammonia in the water!!) it's better to use these products. I have not used these myself, so I don't know if they really work, but that's a start. The problem is that the ammonia tests still show ammonia levels present, so I don't know how to really say if these products really work.

ANY THOUGHTS ON THESE MATTERS ANYONE

 

[Katty]

Seachem Prime is another water conditioner that neutralizes chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia and many, many people here use it. Hopefully your tank is cycled though so even if the products leave some ammonia behind, it should hopefully be removed by the filter. You can't really tell if products remove chlorine either, you just have to put trust in them to work.

 

[L4byr1nth]

Where do you live? Where does your hot water come from?

I'm always weary when people say they've added hot water to cold water and put it straight into the tank. If you've an old house like mine, the water out of all the hot taps is NOT drinking water. It comes from a grubby old water tank in the loft, which probably has all kinds of nasties and dead stuff floating in it.

The golden rule, in my opinion, is to let any water you're putting into the tank stand for at least 12 - 24 hours... I.E. overnight, and not to mention ONLY USE DRINKING WATER.

This will allow chlorine, chloramine and other undesirables to evaporate, and will also let the water get up to room temperature - you can then add this to the tank, and condition the water with a product of your choice.

Ben.

 

[CrustyOnEastCoast]

Maybe that was my problem. My water heater is new within the last 2-3 years, but I was using warm tap water to replace my tank. From now on, I'll draw cold water from the tap, add the dechlorinator, and let it sit overnight to warm up

 

[notg2009]

Maybe that was my problem. My water heater is new within the last 2-3 years, but I was using warm tap water to replace my tank. From now on, I'll draw cold water from the tap, add the dechlorinator, and let it sit overnight to warm up

I'm not going to say you should do exactly as I do, but what I do is that I add warm water to my bucket and check the temp, then I add cold water if temp were high. After getting to the right temp (78-80), I add salt and conditioner, and leave it aside. Then I start removing water from my tank. When I'm done with that, I slowly add the new clean water that I had prepared before. Since the water temp is in the safe zone, the fish should not get stressed because of the difference in temp. What I would do different from now on is using a conditioner that neutralizes chlorine, chloramine, AND ammonia.

At the end it comes down to adding new water that has the right temp, salinity, and chemical concentrations all at the same time.

BY THE WAY, I cycled my tank faster using tetra safestart and api stress zyme+ (of course I don't own api and tetra stocks ). I also added gravel from my previous tank. Maybe you can make the cycle go faster this way.

Good luck.

 

[Skins]

Maybe that was my problem. My water heater is new within the last 2-3 years, but I was using warm tap water to replace my tank. From now on, I'll draw cold water from the tap, add the dechlorinator, and let it sit overnight to warm up

You can always use boiled water from the kettle to mix with your cold water, thats how i match the temp with freshwater and tank water.

Keith.