Neons not surviving

[Lukefishy]

We have a 65l tank with two dwarf gouramis, 3 corys, four rummy noses, and a dying group of neons… started with six and down to two and one of those looks miserable. Does anyone have any advice? All other fish are healthy and growing (though we have lost two rummy’s since May but the four remaining are thriving). Tank is cleaned every week or two weeks and we have some fake plants and some real in there.

 

[Obsessed with fish]

We have a 65l tank with two dwarf gouramis, 3 corys, four rummy noses, and a dying group of neons… started with six and down to two and one of those looks miserable. Does anyone have any advice? All other fish are healthy and growing (though we have lost two rummy’s since May but the four remaining are thriving). Tank is cleaned every week or two weeks and we have some fake plants and some real in there.

Can you send photos of all the neon tetras? What are your water parameter?

 

[sharkweek178]

What kind of symptoms are they showing? And what are your water parameters?

 

[Colin_T]

pictures and video of the fish

how long has the tank been running
how long have you had the fish
did you add anything in the 2 weeks before they started dying

what is the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH of the water
what sort of filter is on the tank
how often and how do you clean the filter

what are the tank dimensions
how often do you do water changes and how much do you change

 

[Fishmanic]

I have never had luck keeping Neons. They are susceptible to Neon Tetra disease. Had many neons over the years and most did not last longer than a year. I have one survivor left in good health at about 4 years old.
What is your water hardness (GH)? Should be available from you local water provider's site.

 

[Jacob the tank keeper]

I noticed neons have die-offs normally after moving tanks or receiving from transit (especially if you don't drip and just float the bag). We own a petshop and we used to import like 600 of them every month (not so often anymore as the market slowed down) From my experience, when you move them to your own tank a lot of them will die off with only a few remaining, I had a group of 12 dying off with only 2 left, that 2 survived years! Same thing with my friend who bought neons.

 

[nigelnorris]

I noticed neons have die-offs normally after moving tanks or receiving from transit (especially if you don't drip and just float the bag). We own a petshop and we used to import like 600 of them every month (not so often anymore as the market slowed down) From my experience, when you move them to your own tank a lot of them will die off with only a few remaining, I had a group of 12 dying off with only 2 left, that 2 survived years! Same thing with my friend who bought neons.

If you know in advance that 80% are going to die how can you with any conscience at all sell 600 a month?

 

[GaryE]

Neon die offs are a thing, as noted above. At one time, they were the toughest fish out there, but the farmed ones seem to come in incredibly delicate these days. I doubt it's inbreeding, and it's more likely poor rearing practices.

If you know in advance that 80% are going to die how can you with any conscience at all sell 600 a month?

I've talked with pet store owners, and most are optimists. They always think the next batch of guppies or neons from yet another farm will be okay. Sometimes they are. It's a vicious circle. We want our fish cheap, and we get them that way. Better raised neons would cost more. Small stores are squeezed between the farms, and the large chains (at least in the US, a major market). Customers want the fish, and if you don't carry them, people get mad and go to the places that have them.

Years ago, Rams were the die off fish, and a local store decided not to sell them, for 2 orders. Customer complaints ran so high they started ordering them again. The manager told me they hoped to sell them fast, but always suggested alternatives to customers who never wanted the alternatives.

 

[Jacob the tank keeper]

If you know in advance that 80% are going to die how can you with any conscience at all sell 600 a month?

exactly why we stopped. My parents own the petshop, not me. Of course, if you go through the effort to actually acclimate them, you'll be fine. Tons of people are just too lazy or just don't listen at all, as much as possible we always try to give customers with proper knowledge, we wouldn't recommend them to beginners at all, we always just tell them to go for those skirt glo tetras. As always, people will always want to try.

The example I said about the 12 neons and only 2 surviving, I was like 8. The last time I had neons they were mostly healthy, same for my other friend. It's really just the education most times.

 

[Jacob the tank keeper]

Years ago, Rams were the die off fish, and a local store decided not to sell them, for 2 orders. Customer complaints ran so high they started ordering them again. The manager told me they hoped to sell them fast, but always suggested alternatives to customers who never wanted the alternatives.

This exactly, we decided to ditch neons and cardinals for like half a year, people kept and kept asking "When will you restock??" And at that time I was deep into the hobby so we decided to give it a go. Petshops being Petshops, I won't deny it, fish aren't kept in the best condition, we didn't sell any for like a week but I did take a few.

I notice neons always just... do that. The congo tetras we had barely had any deaths, same with blood parrots, rummy noses, and tons of our other fish, small tetras just do that for some reason.

I have a goal to change the way we keep fish, slowly we are adding plants to at least give a better environment. Soon enough, when I most likely will inherit the shop, I will 100% do my best to change it. Been saying that forever

 

[GaryE]

Plants really slow down fish catching... Long chases are extra stressful.

As fishkeepers, we are torn. I did work with a company that imported wilds, and refused to deal in any endangered or unethically collected species. Customers complained like crazy about the reasonable prices. It simply costs more to deal with small communities of fishers, and to get them shipped in from faraway places. But healthwise? They are so much better than we've come to expect. There are no manufactured blood parrots or glo-fish in that trade as well.

Farmed fish are interesting. I know people who explore for new species, and some try to work with farms by bringing them wild fish so they can establish large populations in the trade. The problem when I have bought even f-1 or f-2 captive bred from those fish has been Mycobacteriosis. Fish tb thrives in crowding, and fish farms must crowd or go bankrupt. Even the good ones have to deal with it.
The bad ones that survive in the race to the bottom pricewise sell awful fish. I used to go the rounds of local stores with a fish veterinarian and he was always excited at the diseases on display. He bought a lot of fish to study their pathogens. We buy them thinking they'll live long lives.
So where do we sit? Certain species go through waves of disease. Waves of disease pass through the market - angels years ago, neons and guppies now, and others to come in the future.

Fish breeding is now unpopular. Even 20 years ago, aquarists living in most reasonably sized centres could stock their tanks with healthy home bred fish, produced by their friends and neighbours. They were as healthy as wild fish, though difficult to breed standards like cardinal tetras rarely were sold.

Small pet shops are always at risk of being snuffed out by corporate chains that offer low prices and push farms to do everything to lower prices even more. Some of the chains would be happy to reduce the hobby to 20 or 30 species, and just sell them. Stores that are good have to deal with higher prices at source and that makes customers run to the cheap. Online sellers don't even have to hide diseases or bad conditions. They can scoop a hundred dead fish out of the tank and sell you the 6 survivors, no questions asked. Our hobby is fouling its own nest, and we are not in a good position.

 

[Colin_T]

For anyone wondering why a lot of aquarium fishes die shortly after you get them, read the following. Some of the longer term members have read it before but newer members probably haven't. There are other stress factors that come into play at the importers, wholesaler and pet shops too but aren't included in the post.

Fish Importing, from the farm to the home

If any of you have wondered how aquarium fish get to the local pet shop, the following will give you some insight as to what they have to go through to get from the fish farm where they are bred and raised, to the pet shop where you can buy them. The stress they go through is quite...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Jacob the tank keeper]

I have noticed local bred fish will always do better no matter what. They're already used to our water parameters.

Plants really slow down fish catching... Long chases are extra stressful.

I would say maybe... we only use something like vals at a corner, in pots. I noticed healthier-looking fish in that tank too. I'm not sure about the workers and how they catch the fish but we never really have those problems

 

[sharkweek178]

I noticed neons have die-offs normally after moving tanks or receiving from transit (especially if you don't drip and just float the bag). We own a petshop and we used to import like 600 of them every month (not so often anymore as the market slowed down) From my experience, when you move them to your own tank a lot of them will die off with only a few remaining, I had a group of 12 dying off with only 2 left, that 2 survived years! Same thing with my friend who bought neons.

I had that happen to me with my neons this year. I bought a dozen in February. Within the first couple days, most of them were dead. After a week all but one were dead. I bought 11 more to replace them. But now I think they have neon tetra disease. I've lost 3 since June. And now something is going on with their fins that I can't figure out. I'm not replacing them this time. I'll let the remaining neons live out their lives. If I see one unable to eat or swim properly, I'll euthanize it as necessary. I'm done buying neons for a while. They are a beautiful fish. I like them a lot. But they have so many health problems. After the last of these ones die whenever that happens, I'll wait a while then get black phantoms or some other tetra.

 

[sharkweek178]

For anyone wondering why a lot of aquarium fishes die shortly after you get them, read the following. Some of the longer term members have read it before but newer members probably haven't. There are other stress factors that come into play at the importers, wholesaler and pet shops too but aren't included in the post.

Fish Importing, from the farm to the home

If any of you have wondered how aquarium fish get to the local pet shop, the following will give you some insight as to what they have to go through to get from the fish farm where they are bred and raised, to the pet shop where you can buy them. The stress they go through is quite...

www.fishforums.net

That's one reason that I never get fish on the day that they've arrived at the store. They've already been stressed by that trip. I don't want to add more stress to their day.