Neon Tetra's Hiding

BobRivers

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Hello,

I recently moved my Neon's to a 15G tank from a 60G tank as it was needed for my puffer all the stats are good its quite planted with java moss, Amazon sword,Java Fern graval and sand substrate. When the light is off they swim about okay but when the light goes on they all hide, there is 20 in the shoal. They are all quite large for Neon,s I've had them for over a year and i would say they are all Jumbo size.

They are the only occupants in the tank

They are fed flake and bloodworms with the occasional peas.

Can anybody explain the behaviour?
 
How long have they been in the tank for? I'm sure once they've warmed up to the fact that the light won't harm them they might settle down =] It's quite a large tank to, with alot of space for them to settle into which is great.

I bet it must look amazing when they swim around in a shoal *gasps in awe* :good:


And also! You could try to add a small shoal of Zebra Danios. When other fish see them swimming around they're more likely to come out from hiding as they don't see a threat for the Danio's and themselves.
 
Brilliant suggestion from Neon Tetra on the more confident fish encouraging the neons out into the open.
But speaking as one who knows nothing, and has never kept zebra danios at all, I've come across many references to their potential rowdiness and nipping tendency.
Just Googled 'zebra danio nipping' and turned up quite a list.
On the other hand, many people love them and have no problem. :dunno: ???? :S

Of course I'm kinda paranoid right now, currently trying to work out what to do with some vicious gold tetras (who'da figgered?) which had to be fished out of the terrorized tetra tank, so the prospect of adding potential nippers strikes close to home...

BobRivers, I was wondering if you have taller plants throughout the aquarium your neons are in?
Because a few bits of higher-level cover, even scattered, and without obscuring the view, can make an astonishing difference to shyer fish in giving them the courage to venture out and about the tank.

Just a thought...
 
Neons can be pretty nippy too. All tetras have it in them, the bigger they are, the worse (Some of them rival tiger barbs, really). Danios are a bit more active, but not terribly nippy unless kept in a small group (IME, a danio kept alone will become defensive and drive off any fish that comes near it). Neons aren't very vulnerable to nipping unless they're the long finned variety. Having a more confident shoaling fish definitely helps with shy fish - I have praecox rainbows in an insufficient shoal, but the two actively swim out in the open as long as my danios and tetras are happy.
 
i also had this problem. so i fitted a variable resistor to my light switch so i can subdue the lighting for periods of time also cuts down on unwanted algea growth
 
Hello

Just an update on the above. I am now having major problems with the Neon's I added more fish as advised I put in another 10 very small Neon's and 5 rummy nose Tetra's who are all swimming about great and looking very healthy with very bright colours especially the nose's of the RNT.

This worked well and the older Neon's began swimming about.

But after a few days

I am now seeing two Neon deaths a day, only the original Large ones It looks like on some they could have a fungus growth like the cotton wool effect which if I am correct is down to poor water conditions. I find this odd as the water is reguarly tested and water changed. Can this disease also be caused by stress?

I was wondering if the change from the 60g to the 15g has been to much for them.

If i up the Temp and add some salt would this effect the others?

I checked all my stats and all are correct I have completed a few water changes I even opened my Tetra tec 700 and cleaned it which also was also looking good(to my surprise i found 4 cherry shrimps living in it). It is a bit large for the 15g tank but i prefer to have good filtration.

What I have seen since I re done the tank is the water looks a little cloudy with no signs of clearing even after the water changes. I checked the filter but all seems to be working fine.

Again help really appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Hang on...the Neons are in the 15gal??? That's basically stocked, so you may not want to add more fish. They will get more confident. They've just been moved, and it takes awhile...
 
They were in there for over a month and should be used to the location by now. I belive its being moved from 60g to 15g that has stressed them and hence now bacteria infection of some sort has taken over. The last 2 days I have had 7 deaths and they are increasing every day.

As to being over stocked then possibly, but there is excellent filtration available.
The rule of 1g per 1Inch then yes but these are small fish.

This forum is excellent and very helpful but I also think some people are to quick to come up with the same answer regarding being overstocked.

I have looked at the Neons that have died and one had a cotton wool effect on it the others have no obvious signs. I have also noticed that there are about another 20 young cherry shrimp in there but they are very very small so would this Indicate water stats are fine or would they still breed anyway?

I was also looking for more Info on NTD are there any tell tale signs?


Thanks again.
 
Aother 4 today I have never seen such a shoal of really healthy fish die so quickly, In my 260 its the biggest Neon's I have seen anywhere. In the 15g they just look terrible. What i have noticed the past day or 2 is that there were some baby guppys hiding which now look 2-3 weeks old and they are harrasing the Neons, they look like they are trying to feed on the side of them. I have just noticed that the young guppies are now harrising the Rummy nose tetras the same way.

The young guppies are now flicking also The tank must be in a bad way.
 
Ah...excuse me, but I didn't say you were overstocked...I said the tank was basically stocked.
 
I don't know if any of these suggestions will be of any use, and have likely been considered already, but just in case:

Could the tetras have been previously exposed to something, in example, like a mycobacterial infection, which only gained hold after the stress of transfer?

I'm wondering pretty hard about internal parasites, which can make fish both paranoid and aggressive, as well as susceptible to secondary ailments such as that you've described.
I've had similar problems in new fish and ultimately lost (sob) the lot, although it can take months for the problem - and the deaths - to become apparent..
Internal parasites are far more varied and common these days than I'd previously realized...

Another point - could the baby guppys possibly be attempting to pick at tiny organisms on the other fish, perhaps small parasites not easily, humanly visible?
I've never known baby guppies (but never had overbred fancies, either) to behave in this manner, although reasonably adult male guppies are a whole 'nother story.

I believe that cherry shrimp cannot survive bad water conditions, with the young being especially susceptible, and according to my limited understanding, you'd be correct in thinking that no breeding would be taking place if the water conditions were very far off at all.
They'd be the canary in the coal mine, so to speak, as I think they pretty much tend to drop with any spike or deterioration in water standards.
(Not that I think very well, lol.)

Were any new plants bought from an LFS for the 15 gal?
I've had anchor worms arrive in with new plants, among other horrors...
I've also had issues with one plant order where a massive hatching of multiple critter types clouded the water, and were initially so tiny and numerous as to appear like some sort of bacterial bloom.
Is the cloudiness remaining constant, or are the specks appearing to grow or move independently?

If this doesn't seem to be a possibility - is there anything in the tank which may be leaching something, any unboiled driftwood, uncertain rocks/slate, perhaps a second-hand tank bought from one of the idiots who saved big bucks by not repairing with aquarium-safe silicone?

When you think about it, there are so many potential factors for problems it's a wonder most tanks run so relatively issue-free...

I only hope it works out before you lose any more fish.
The very best of luck.
 
I have 4 Neon,s left out of 25 all gone within 4-5 days Pretty gutted as they looked great.

I don,t think they were exposed to anything as they were in the 260 for over a year then moved to the 15g when it had cycled. The tank was home to my puffer and sg of 1.006. The cause may lie in this if the tank was not cycled correctly. I cycled it over a month till I got the stats that I belived were correct.

I do think the baby guppies were picking at some small parasite on the Neon,s some of the neon,s that died skin was looking like it had been peeled back. The babys are now picking at the rummy nose tetra's. I'm hoping they will not be next but Its not looking to good

No new plants bought they were all taken from my 10g upstairs which had been running as a breeding tank for my cherry shrimps which ran very well.

Tank is about a year old new from Dobbies garden centre. Small leak in top right corner which I will try and re-seal. The cloudiness from the tank has cleared and the water is looking crystal which is one good sign.

I will see over the next few days how things progress. Thanks again for the help.
 
OMG, that is such a heartbreak.
I don't expect I am being any help, but I hope this will, finally, clear up fast.

Were the guppies home bred?
Sometimes resistant fish can carry contagion which doesn't noticeably affect them, but is then present when other fish become susceptable, as when stressed by a move.

I had recently come across some references to parasites/disease which can cause skin to peel.
And as 'cotton wool' fungus showed on some of your fish, the problem could be fungal all around, unless one affliction is secondary to another, and it does sound possibly parasitic, especially with the guppies picking at the skin of affected fish.
I couldn't remember what and where the most likely references were, but just Googled a bit and I'll plunk the assortment here just in case anything might help.
Even elimination may help narrow the field.


Would Velvet show on neons?

It's said to often be hard to see, and what with some of your fish having skin peeling...

[URL="http://www.oneworldinternetcafe.com/betta/...h_diseases.html"]http://www.oneworldinternetcafe.com/betta/...h_diseases.html[/URL]


... Oödinium is one of the more common diseases in cultured fish. This tiny parasite is capable of decimating an entire fish population, usually before you realize what the problem really is. It strikes both fresh and saltwater fish equally.

In freshwater fish Velvet is caused by either Oödinium pilularis or Oödinium limneticum. In marine fish Oödinium ocellatum causes Coral Fish disease. All three species are similar to the well known parasite, Ich.

Oödinium uses flagellum to adhere to fish and then forms rod pseudopodia which penetrates the skin and gill filaments. This destroys the cells and allows the parasite to feed on the nutrients inside. Eventually the parasite matures and divides into dozens of cells that drop off the original host and spread out in the tank in search of new hosts to feed on. They will die within a day if they fail to leach onto another host. They produce a white pustule on the host not unlike Ich but much finer. Sadly they are usually not seen in time and the host dies. Also, not unlike Ich, they are a common occurance in most pet store tanks but only become lethal when fish are stressed. (Poor water quality, temperature changes, handling etc.)

Symptoms:

Fish will scratch themselves against hard objects. (Trying to dislodge parasite)
Fish becomes lethargic
Fish display a loss of appetite.
Fish loses weight.
Fish displays rapid gill movement. (a universal sign of illness)
Fish clamp fins against body.
Fish developes a yellowish or rusty colored film on its skin. (telltale symptom - though hard to detect, try a flashlight beam on the fish in a dark setting. Look on the fins and gills.)
Fish's skin will eventually begin to peel off. ...


[URL="http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/disease-fo...am-worried.html"]http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/disease-fo...am-worried.html[/URL]


... Well two days ago, I noticed a female platy (that I thought was pregnant) had white sides and clamped fins. The white sides on the sides is a tell-tale sign of a flexibaciter infection. I immediately quarentined my platy, and began medicating with triple-sulfa. Tonight when I came home, my other pregnant platy was stricken with the disease. Her sides looked like the skin was falling off. Again, tell-tale signs of flex. ...

... The two fish in quarentine definetely have flex, as their skin is "peeling" off. But the other two that are now sick only appear to have "body fungus." I am assuming that this is bacterial infection since I do two water changes a week, and nitrates never get above 5. ...


[URL="http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...28130450AA6hlcT"]http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...28130450AA6hlcT[/URL]

... Well, the only thing I can think of why a Betta's skin is peeling is a possibility of fungus growing on the skin. ...

[URL="http://guppyplace.tripod.com/Parasites.html"]http://guppyplace.tripod.com/Parasites.html[/URL]

... Guppy Disease
There is actually a disease caused by a protozoan that is more commonly seen in guppies than in any other fish. This is a tiny parasite that attacks the skin and may even reach as far as the muscles or bloodstream. They may get large enough to resemble ich and the scales may protrude, swimming is difficult and the skin usually falls off as well. If this is not taken care of quickly it can spread throughout the tank and be very difficult to control. ...

Since this can affect other fish but more frequently occurs in guppies, one wonders...

I so hope this is worked out fast, and that the rest of your fish will be OK.
Have you posted in the emergency section?
Maybe Wilder or some other expert will show to cast an informed eye on the situation, but the post heading only suggests a possible ill and they wouldn't be specifically looking here for anyone in need of their skills.
If you haven't already done this, a more specific thread in the emergency section might produce some useful answers.
And if sympathy helped, you'd never have lost more fish...

Edit - are the baby guppies in there because you cycled with feeders?
Because they're notorious for having been raised in poor conditions and carrying disease as a result.
And that could explain everything, including the shyness which can often be a sign of disease.
 

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