Neon tetra mouth virus? questions

[PygmyPepperJulli]

Hi all,

This has been a issue (not an issue exactly, but not sure what else to call it) in my tanks for a while now, and looking for some advice. Sorry if this is a common issue.

At least one of neon tetras seems to have a weird lump on their mouth at any given time. It comes and goes, it's not fuzzy (fungus), it doesn't get bigger, and it isn't anywhere else on their body. It's just... there. It can be white, or more recently, light brown, and is never big enough to kill them or stop them eating food. I don't really care about how it looks, but every time I see it I start stressing whether they're sick, so I though I might as well ask.

Found something similar in this past link: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/neon-tetra-mouth-fungus.477068/
It could be that, but I've never seen it that big (not in the linked threads but some of the threads linked in that) and hasn't ever killed them (I think...). No pics because my camera is still playing up.

I'm going to link in @Essjay, @Colin_T, and @DoubleDutch (sorry) because they seem to have encountered it before or have some understanding of what it is.

Thanks,
PPJ

Also, completely different, but has anyone ever had a case of permanent finrot? One of my neons since the day I've bought it has had slightly white edged and ragged fins. Never gets worse or better, never spreads.

 

[Lcc86]

This is not intended in any way as a personal attack so please don't take it that way, but I wonder if there is something more going on in your tank. Perhaps not in relation to this specific issue as that thread you linked suggests this might be a common issue, but you also mention potential fin rot, and I know you have concerns about another neon and lost one of your cories recently. I just wonder whether all of the recent issues you're experiencing need to be looked at together to see if there's something common that links them, whether it's a water quality issue or something else.

I know you care for your fish and that's the only reason I bring this up, we will all deal with issues in our tanks, it's just the way it goes in this hobby and I am no expert so I too seek advice from people on here who know their stuff way more than I do. I could be completely off but thought I would mention it as if I was experiencing the number of problems you have had recently I would be trying to figure out if there's potentially a common link.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Hi all,

This has been a issue (not an issue exactly, but not sure what else to call it) in my tanks for a while now, and looking for some advice. Sorry if this is a common issue.

At least one of neon tetras seems to have a weird lump on their mouth at any given time. It comes and goes, it's not fuzzy (fungus), it doesn't get bigger, and it isn't anywhere else on their body. It's just... there. It can be white, or more recently, light brown, and is never big enough to kill them or stop them eating food. I don't really care about how it looks, but every time I see it I start stressing whether they're sick, so I though I might as well ask.

Found something similar in this past link: https://www.fishforums.net/threads/neon-tetra-mouth-fungus.477068/
It could be that, but I've never seen it that big (not in the linked threads but some of the threads linked in that) and hasn't ever killed them (I think...). No pics because my camera is still playing up.

I'm going to link in @Essjay, @Colin_T, and @DoubleDutch (sorry) because they seem to have encountered it before or have some understanding of what it is.

Thanks,
PPJ

Also, completely different, but has anyone ever had a case of permanent finrot? One of my neons since the day I've bought it has had slightly white edged and ragged fins. Never gets worse or better, never spreads.

Think we definitely need some pics

 

[JuiceBox52]

Pics would be helpful. Is it grayish? There is a new(ish) neon tetra condition that plagued my neons for years, and is becoming a lot more common that it certainly could be.

 

[AJ356]

Have you tested for ammonia and nitrite?

 

[GaryE]

Sometimes they get bumps on the mouth that come and go, and mean nothing. It isn't just a thing with neons.

I find fin rot interesting. It's rare enough - mostly incoming from bad stores. It was everywhere in the pre-water change, balanced aquarium era, and we constantly dealt with it. Now, it seems wildly over diagnosed. A little colouration around the edge of a fin can be normal, and raggedy fins can be from mild sparring (as can the mouth thing). Still, pictures would help.

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

Thanks for the replies and sorry for this late one.

This is not intended in any way as a personal attack so please don't take it that way, but I wonder if there is something more going on in your tank. Perhaps not in relation to this specific issue as that thread you linked suggests this might be a common issue, but you also mention potential fin rot, and I know you have concerns about another neon and lost one of your cories recently. I just wonder whether all of the recent issues you're experiencing need to be looked at together to see if there's something common that links them, whether it's a water quality issue or something else.

I know you care for your fish and that's the only reason I bring this up, we will all deal with issues in our tanks, it's just the way it goes in this hobby and I am no expert so I too seek advice from people on here who know their stuff way more than I do. I could be completely off but thought I would mention it as if I was experiencing the number of problems you have had recently I would be trying to figure out if there's potentially a common link.

I'd love to fix the issue if anyone can tell me what it is. I've had issues ever since I've started- and although that made total sense in the beginning due to the amount of fish I cramped into my 10gal cube, now I've moved them to a much bigger tank the problems just keep coming. I don't know what it is, I change as much as I can each week (30-50%, I have unofficial but rather important water restrictions), I don't have chlorine in my water, it's completely soft. My cory stocking isn't great, but it would be totally fine if they didn't keep dying, if they didn't die every other day I would have great numbers by now.

As for looking at them all together...
I won't even go into all the deaths in my old tank, but the ones just before transfer were a neon that jumped (holiday, and the LID WAS ON! HOW!) a neon riddled with black holes (suspected worm/parisite sorta thing, also just after holidays) and a pygmy cory that died of paleness? also a pepper cory that died just (like a day) before transfer with suspected swim bladder (kept floating all over the place). Other notable mentions were both of my juliis dying of funky death roll swimming (suspected protozoan on the brain) and a suspected bout of ntd just after I set the tank up again.

New tank- the cory that just died, swim bladder again maybe? (was having a tail up session the day before). That's the only death, but I also saved a pygmy that was looking real pale and breathing heavily (did a massive water change and added salt, slowly recovered. (I was very proud, that's the first time I've actually fixed something). Also the tetra that has got the suspected fin rot (came from the shop like that and has never looked any different, better or worse).

Have you tested for ammonia and nitrite?

I actually now have enough money to get the API test kit, but am waiting for the shop to restock.

Sometimes they get bumps on the mouth that come and go, and mean nothing. It isn't just a thing with neons.

That sounds like it. Never been an issue, they just come and go. It sounds very similar to the thread (and threads in that) attached, except it's never anywhere near that big.

Is it grayish? There is a new(ish) neon tetra condition that plagued my neons for years, and is becoming a lot more common that it certainly could be.

Maybe, it'd be closer to grey than white sometimes. Did yours ever die or get bigger?

Think we definitely need some pics

Pics would be helpful.

Pictures would help.

I'm trying...

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

I quit cories. Just found another pepper dead. I'm just going to try my best, let everything in my tank that wants to die die, wait to see what lives and stock from there. I'm tired of buying fish, watching them die, buying more fish, and wasting money while trying to get a decent shoal so they don't die.

 

[Lcc86]

I quit cories. Just found another pepper dead. I'm just going to try my best, let everything in my tank that wants to die die, wait to see what lives and stock from there. I'm tired of buying fish, watching them die, buying more fish, and wasting money while trying to get a decent shoal so they don't die.

I'm sorry to hear this. This fishkeeping stuff is a real minefield and like anything with animals, if they could tell us what's wrong everything would be so much easier!!

You mention water restrictions but if there's any way you can increase the amount you're changing it may help. It's also possible that there's still some kind of treatable illness in your tank that can be fixed with the right meds, especially as you mention possible worms/protozoan infection in previous deaths.

I know it's frustrating but none of your fish "want to die" and as fishkeepers we owe it to them to try and ensure this doesn't happen wherever we can.

 

[GaryE]

I'm going to suggest that there has been a single cause - a virus or bacteria that came in and spread. When I get one of those mysterious things in a tank (it's been a long time, but it happens) I wait it out. It will usually kill one species completely, and a few individuals of fish from the same general habitat. We're at the end of january and you started at the end of September, if I remember correctly. I usually quarantine pet shop fish for three months, so I would grit my teeth and be patient. Wait at least 2 months from the last death, then rebuild.

It's discouraging. Sick fish are a hobby killer, because we have so few treatments. Just keep doing weekly 30% water changes as if the tank were full, and in 8 or 9 water changes, the average pathogen will have died out.

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

I just had an idea- what if it was the substrate? I got it for free from a friend, who said it was cory safe... however, am now having my doubts. I can try to cap it with play sand (it's really cheap for a 20kg bag) and see if that helps, as trying to take it all out with the fish in there is a recipe for disaster. I'm also having an issue with nutrition- as you may have read, my hikari sinking pellets that they usually eat were infested with bugs, so I actually have nothing to feed them and they may have made them sick before I noticed it. I've been feeding flakes, but the neons snap them up quickly enough that none generally reach the bottom, and it will probably be a while before I can buy more food. What can I feed them in the meantime? and (I still have the packet) if I froze the wafers, would they be ok to eat? There's about half a packet left, and with the price it's at I don't want to waste all that food.

 

[Lcc86]

I'm sure if it was your substrate you would've noticed problems more quickly and if it had leeched anything bad into the water your other fish would likely be affected - but without a test kit you can't be certain.

With the flakes, if you crush some in your hands and actually place it in the tank close to the substrate while the neons etc are distracted your cories should be able to get some, but ideally you want to pick up some food specifically for them, if there is an illness in the tank going without food isn't going to help. You can sometimes pick up little samples of algae wafers etc cheap online on ebay or somewhere if you just need an emergency ration (well you can in the UK not sure about aus). How long have they been going without food for?

 

[Lcc86]

25g - 1kg sinking Spirulina Algae wafer Tablets Shrimp crustacean Food | eBay

Many aquatic species such as Shrimp enjoy Sinking Spirulina Algae Wafers. They are rich in vitamins, minerals and antioxidants and contain 35% protein. Suitable for most types of aquarium fish, especially good for Shrimp, Bristlenose and Plecotosomus.

www.ebay.com.au

This was the cheapest sample on Australian ebay, obviously its not going to be as good quality as a better brand but if money is an issue its a compromise (I know we prefer to promote independent stores on here but am just thinking of a quick fix for you).