Neon tetra in trouble

[Paul_MTS]

Woke up this morning to find a neon tetra on it's side on the bottom of the tank.

I'ved tested my water and it's fine no change to when i put them in on Wednesday.

This is a new set up with just the 6 neon tetra and ai added a clown plec yesterday.

Any advice on what I can doo???

cheers

 

[ryan]

Is your water similar to that of the shop that you brought them from? It could be the stress of the move or a number of things. Neons aren't the hardiest fish due to consistant line breeding and are often weak and affected by diseases like Neon Tetra disease.

 

[Paul_MTS]

I'm not sure what his parameters were but i showed him mine and said there fine.

so it's just a case to see if it will pull thorugh or not??

as the other 5 are still fine, could it just be a weak one...
cheers

 

[skimpy]

Posted on: Aug 26 2004, 01:39 PM

well tested just before 1pm and heres the results-

Nitrates - 5mg/l
nitrites- 0.1mg/l
ammonia-0.0gm/l

Paul on 26 Aug you said that your parameters were as above in your other thread.

Firstly one reason for fish to not survive when brough home is if there is a big difference in the lfs PH levels and your PH levels. Don't know what your PH is.

Secondly I would not purchase fish (only my opinion of course) with the reading in your quote above.

Thirdly if the above parameters were the ones you showed the lfs and he said that was fine then (for me) he would not be a lfs guy that I would trust.

Finally this neon may be a week one or you may loose all of them, but when it comes to the lives of fish, is it worth the risk. (Again only my opinion I do not mean to sound judgemental) I am just surprised after all the info you got in the above quoted thread that you still went and got fish. If my nitrites are at 0.1 and all expert advice says its better for fish for the nitrites to be at 0 - then I wouldn't even consider getting a fish until the time is right. I'm only thinking of the fish and putting the fish first as I would want someone to do if they bought me as a pet (I am house trained )

Anyway sorry to sound grumpy but I feel sad

 

[Paul_MTS]

my PH is 8.0 which is will probable be the same for him, even though my tank has CO2 it hasn't lowered my PH as it's the same in my other tank without CO2.

I took a few people advice(not just in the thread) and the overall thought was to get a few fish!! I do trust my LFS dude very much and he knows his stuff.

He was willing to lend me 4 platties to put in that tank for 4 weeks, but I hadn't planned on them so I sugested neons that would move in with my crabs and he said they would be fine aswell.

All the others are doing great, not shoaling like I woulf of thought they semed o of split into a group of 2 and 3. I thinkthis fish may of been ill yesterday but I didn't pick up on it as it was stayig low at the bottom and not moving much.

I couldn't see him when I checked on them a few minutes ago but earlier it was flat against the filter inlet and couldn't get away.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Neon tetra

 

[skimpy]

So sorry to hear that he's gone. Do hope all the other will be ok, let us know how it goes.

 

[Paul_MTS]

Will do, think I'll go give them there blood worm now!! Haven't seen my clown plec since a few hours after I released it!!

 

[finnster]

The only thing I can add (from experience) is that Neons can be extremely weak and it's always odds on that you will lose some.
We have a local stockist who sells 10 for around £6 and always puts 12 or 13 in the bag anyway.
I have a tank which now houses Altums, Corys, Brissy's and a shoal of Cardinals. I purchased a dozen initially and lost all but three, the shop were good enough to offer me another bag foc.
In all to establish the current shoal of 18 - I lost 26 in all. This I see as no fault of my own as my water parameters are spot on with pH at 6.5 and GH around 8 - practically the same as the shop from where purchased. I take well over half an hour to acclimatise any new fish and gradually change the water in the bag whilst doing so.
A good friend of mine had the exact same problem, he didn't lose quite as many as me but he's eventually ended up with a shoal of 12 in his Discus set up.
I've quizzed many shops and retailers and they all say that "it's just a thing with Neons and Cardinals".
One thing I have found out is that there is a difference in quality between UK suppliers. I have a friend now working in the aquatic trade and he has told me that fatalities from a certain supplier is much lower than another. I do not wish to enter into 'names' here but we have proved this to be true in recent months.
I guess all in all - if your water parameters are good and they're near as damn the same as your local shop - then take time to settle them in - and be prepared to lose a few if you want a decent sized shoal.
Please remember that these are just my experiences and opinions from our 'neck of the woods' - it's not gonna be the same for everybody - good luck!

 

[Paul_MTS]

Yeah cheers that that, I was thinking along those lines really, it's just down weather your lucky or not getting the stronger of the stock or not. i'll tell him when I'm next in but I'm not bother about it too much, I left them in there bag for 40 mins then let them swim out, this is what I do with pond fish.

I ask my LFS what his PH is when I next go. For future buys if his is different should I buy PH lowering/highering products to match his?

 

[skimpy]

I ask my LFS what his PH is when I next go. For future buys if his is different should I buy PH lowering/highering products to match his?

Hi again Paul,

I personally have not had a lot of experience regarding different PH levels, but I have read many many times on TFF that messing about with PH up or down is DEFINATELY NOT a good idea. This seems to be a very strong opinion coming through.

The advice I have alway been given is to get fish that suit your PH level and not to alter the PH level for the fish.

For me, my tap water is PH 7.8 and I find that my PH of tank stays about 7.2-7.4. I assume that when I do a water change it must rise slightly, because I am putting in 7.8. I have also read that a piece of bogwood can naturally help to lower PH levels if they are too high for the fish. Plus people seem to all agree that a higher PH is not as bad as a lower PH (i.e acidic below 7.0)

I have found in my experience that when I cycled (with fish) my main tank and when I cycled (fishless) with my baby tank my PH was up as high as 8.0 dropping slowely over the cycle and has not been as low as 7.2 until the tank was mature. It certainly seems to have stabilized now.

I do not know a lot about PH but have read that if there is a large difference in lfs PH and your own, it can be a problem to the fish. Luckly my reading are very similar to my lfs - so I have not had to address that issue too deeply.

left them in there bag for 40 mins then let them swim out, this is what I do with pond fish.

I do the same with my pond fish, but I have been advised by many that with a tank (not so much water area) if you have travelled a way with the fish the water in the bag might be high in ammonia, I therefore either net my fish from the bag, or empty most of the water away so as not to contaminate the tank. Just a hint that could be helpful for future.

Nice to chat again with you

 

[Paul_MTS]

Yeah in books it suggests that you get fish to match your PH for starters, but sayd experts will fiddle about with the there PH to match the fish they want.

I think I'll ask my LFS man to do a PH test for me as he has a digital one and my test kit only goes up in .5's so isn't too good. In my tank I have quite a large peice of bogwood aswell, about 1 ft long and 7/8inch high.

I'll have to see if my PH lowers are the tanks establish more but I cant see how that works as your replacing the water all the time unless the bacteria formed reduced PH...

From the fish getting in a bag to getting home and bag in the tank it will be about 20/25mins max, depending how long we talk after bagging em up!!

Yeh good to chat again!! Saw my clown plec after lunch today, sucking on the side of my bogwood

 

[skimpy]

I'll have to see if my PH lowers are the tanks establish more but I cant see how that works as your replacing the water all the time unless the bacteria formed reduced PH...

They had a tank at my workplace that I rescued, it had been neglected and left for ages. The Nitrates went off the scale 160 +++ and the PH was below 4.0. I had to do regular small water changes to get the PH up and the Nitrates down. This was when I found out that using stuff to alter PH is not recommended by the majority.

I have a feeling that nitrates do lower PH but I am not sure - Can someone else answer that? I would certainly like to know the answer.

edit P.S. my bristlenose enjoys the bogwood too!

 

[Paul_MTS]

Ah ha, that could make sense then, what are your nitrates at to have a 7.2 PH, my nitrates are 5-10 all the times i'ved tested.

I was thinking about Bristle noses but i want a king tiger plec and another clown I think so any more bottom feeders and i won't have any inch per gallon left!!

 

[skimpy]

My nitrates run about 20. I do regular water changes to keep them down but my tap water is running at 10 so I can't get them that low

All I have read though tells me that if nitrates are OK at 20 (although I'm sure lower would be better). I test regularly to make sure they do not go above that and they did at first but seem to have settled down now. I also have 6 live plants to help keep nitrates down.