Need Help

[thirtystm30]

So I'm not exactly new to having fish but this problem has me stumped. I have a 55 gallon tank that I've had setup for almost a year. Currently I only have two fish in there (female betta and a Gourami) and I've had them for maybe 4ish months. Now, they are the only two fish that I have bought who have stayed alive. I'll go out and get either a few Platys or Tetras and within a few days they're all dead. They either just die suddenly for a reason I can't see or they just get ich. I can't understand what I'm doing wrong! It's getting really frustrating because I bought this big tank to have a beautiful tank I could enjoy and it's not very enjoyable with only two fish in it... Anyone have some advice for me? I just can't for the life of me figure out what's going on and why my only two fish are the ones staying alive.

 

[Vethian]

Do you have a test kit?  If so, what does the ammonia and nitrite look like?  What temperature do you keep the tank water? 

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

What have you already done to figure it out? What are your water conditions? Is the tank cycled properly? What is your maintenance schedule? What kind of equipment are you running? How are you introducing the fish? Is your car parked nearby?
 
In case you haven't figured it out, more information is needed for us to even hazard a guess.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Question number 1- do you get all your Platys or Tetras from the same store?

 

[snork6]

From experience......I had a gourami once that would kill all my fish he especially did not like platys and guppies. Or your female betta could be killing them (hints the name japanese fighting fish) . thats just a thought hope you find out what's killing them soon.

 

[thirtystm30]

Do you have a test kit?  If so, what does the ammonia and nitrite look like?  What temperature do you keep the tank water? 

I don't have a ammonia test kit but I have a nitrate and pH one. Nitrate is at zero and not sure if the pH matters, but it's at 6.0. The temperature is currently at 75 degrees

Question number 1- do you get all your Platys or Tetras from the same store?

I usually get them from either Petco or Petsmart. I know those probably aren't the ideal place to get them but they're about the only stores around me to get fish.

From experience......I had a gourami once that would kill all my fish he especially did not like platys and guppies. Or your female betta could be killing them (hints the name japanese fighting fish) . thats just a thought hope you find out what's killing them soon.

I thought maybe the Gourami was killing them but he didn't bother the last batch of fish I got. And the female betta has no way of getting to the other fish because I have her in what you would put baby fish in. Since I don't want her getting lost in the huge tank I have.

What have you already done to figure it out? What are your water conditions? Is the tank cycled properly? What is your maintenance schedule? What kind of equipment are you running? How are you introducing the fish? Is your car parked nearby?
 
In case you haven't figured it out, more information is needed for us to even hazard a guess.

I haven't done anything to figure it out, that's why I'm here. I don't know where to start or what needs to be done. Water conditions I don't know. I'm guessing it's cycled properly since it's been up and running for almost a year. Though there's barely any algae in my tank if that's helps any. I try and give them a water change a few times a month. My filter is the Whisper EX70 and I also have a big airstone as well in my tank. Sorry I'm not someone who knows everything about fish and how to run the perfect tank. I didn't know what information was important and what wasn't. I don't appreciate you being rude about it... If you're going to be like that then please don't even help me.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Please do not think people are being rude, we really are trying to help. Part of the problem when trying to help folks out is it takes a fair amount of information to actually nail things down. A lot of the information you will be asked for is more often used to eliminate possible causes as it is to identify them. That is because there are normally a multitude of potential causes for any problem. And bear in mind that every one of us started out in the hobby as a complete newbie. And those of us who have been at it for many years with multiple tanks will tell you that we keep learning more all the time.
 
At this point my first vote would be the fish were not healthy when you got them. I am also worried about the pH. Most test kits stop at 6.0 and this means your pH could be lower than 6.0 and you have no way to know. That pH is too low as far as I am concerned. But more importantly, we need to know the hardness (GH) of your water and equally important is the KH. We know to these levels for both your tap water and your tank water. When testing tap pH take a water sample and let it sit out overnight and then test it. Do not test directly from the tap. Normally, acid water (pH below 7) tends to be pretty soft and also low in KH. This is what keeps pH from being too low.
 
Unless your tank is heavily planted, you should not have 0 nitrate if you are cycled. But that kit is awful and especially between 0 and 20 ppm.
 
In your case you are losing new fish almost as soon as they go into the water. In the case of ich, I can almost guarantee its coming in on the new fish and is not being caused by your tank. In 15 years and having 15-20 tanks I have had ich only twice and both times it came in with new fish. While it is possible either a betta (one not kept in a breeder trap) or a gourami might kill small fish, I think you would catch onto this. Some fish will be attacked but not killed and you would have seen the damage on them. Incidentally, I do not agree with keeping the betta in that net for any length of time.
 
One problem here is you described no symptoms aside from saying you had ich on some. But you also indicated this was not the only problem. I take this to mean there must be something else as well. If you did have ich, this doesn't go away naturally, you must use any one of a number of various treatments to stop it. Why did it not attack the gourami and the betta?
 
You did not mention any other potential symptoms or odd behavior which would help us diagnose what might be the problem.Were the fish eating and pooping? Were they swimming normally? Did they appear too thin or too fat? Were they always hiding? Did they have any external symptoms- white patches, sores or irritated areas, any discolorations at all?
 
As you can see trying to solve your problem requires a ton of information about your setup. As you provide the answers they will either eliminate some things or else point towards a few new questions.
 
At this point I would be leaning towards two issues, poor quality fish from the stores and/or water parameter issues. More info will help greatly in this respect

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

I'm at a loss here.
 
How was I being rude?
 
I asked what you have done and then a series of questions that need to answered, except for the last one. Your opening statement established that you had some knowledge about fishkeeping. I thought you would know that these questions would need to be answered, so I had a little fun asking them to get the information flowing. It was not meant to be offensive and, honestly, I still don't see it.
 
It's like when you call computer support, they have a list of questions that need to be answered for just about any problem. Just yesterday, I answered a question at another forum for a program that I use to make a living. Even though the fact that he was even posting in that forum implied some expertise with computers. My response was to ask if he had restarted the program/computer and that was the extent of my response. I was totally prepared for a response something like, "Of course, I did. You are an idiot for even asking." It turned out that he had not restarted and that solved his problem.
 
The simple questions need to be asked, if the information is not offered up. If you had said what you later said about being at square one and having very little experience, I would not have worded my post the way I did. I just thought you already knew that would need that info.

 

[thirtystm30]

Please do not think people are being rude, we really are trying to help. Part of the problem when trying to help folks out is it takes a fair amount of information to actually nail things down. A lot of the information you will be asked for is more often used to eliminate possible causes as it is to identify them. That is because there are normally a multitude of potential causes for any problem. And bear in mind that every one of us started out in the hobby as a complete newbie. And those of us who have been at it for many years with multiple tanks will tell you that we keep learning more all the time.
 
At this point my first vote would be the fish were not healthy when you got them. I am also worried about the pH. Most test kits stop at 6.0 and this means your pH could be lower than 6.0 and you have no way to know. That pH is too low as far as I am concerned. But more importantly, we need to know the hardness (GH) of your water and equally important is the KH. We know to these levels for both your tap water and your tank water. When testing tap pH take a water sample and let it sit out overnight and then test it. Do not test directly from the tap. Normally, acid water (pH below 7) tends to be pretty soft and also low in KH. This is what keeps pH from being too low.
 
Unless your tank is heavily planted, you should not have 0 nitrate if you are cycled. But that kit is awful and especially between 0 and 20 ppm.
 
In your case you are losing new fish almost as soon as they go into the water. In the case of ich, I can almost guarantee its coming in on the new fish and is not being caused by your tank. In 15 years and having 15-20 tanks I have had ich only twice and both times it came in with new fish. While it is possible either a betta (one not kept in a breeder trap) or a gourami might kill small fish, I think you would catch onto this. Some fish will be attacked but not killed and you would have seen the damage on them. Incidentally, I do not agree with keeping the betta in that net for any length of time.
 
One problem here is you described no symptoms aside from saying you had ich on some. But you also indicated this was not the only problem. I take this to mean there must be something else as well. If you did have ich, this doesn't go away naturally, you must use any one of a number of various treatments to stop it. Why did it not attack the gourami and the betta?
 
You did not mention any other potential symptoms or odd behavior which would help us diagnose what might be the problem.Were the fish eating and pooping? Were they swimming normally? Did they appear too thin or too fat? Were they always hiding? Did they have any external symptoms- white patches, sores or irritated areas, any discolorations at all?
 
As you can see trying to solve your problem requires a ton of information about your setup. As you provide the answers they will either eliminate some things or else point towards a few new questions.
 
At this point I would be leaning towards two issues, poor quality fish from the stores and/or water parameter issues. More info will help greatly in this respect

The fish were eating and acting perfectly normal. Some were hiding yes. I never guessed anything would be wrong. It pretty much happened over night it seemed like. They all appeared healthy when I got them. No sores, discoloration, or anything of the like. I've been told by a friend that you can treat ich without any medicine. Just by raising the temperature up. Guessing that's not true? I will test my tap water tonight. How do you fix the ph levels? I've always been confused about the whole water aspect and getting it perfect. And why do you not agree with keeping the betta in the breeder tank? I did let her out of it but was just curious She seemed perfectly happy in it!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I find breeder traps to be confining. For most fish they cause stress sooner or later. With net breeders used for eggs or wigglers it is possible for other fish in a tank to go after an egg or yolk sac and suck it out through the net.
 
As for learning the basics about water parameters/chemistry. here is a really good site which will explain a lot of it to you in pretty simple easy to understand terms http/faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html

 

[Byron]

I'm on board with TTA's diagnosis.  
 
I had thought the fish were dying immediately upon being added (meaning, within a day or two), but from your last post it may be they are lasting longer.  Considering that you have an acidic pH, and as TTA said, probably this means soft water, and that the fish are livebearers, this almost certainly points to the water parameters.  Livebearers must have moderately hard or harder water, with a basic pH.  "Basic" does not mean "normal" or something, but rather it is what we term a pH above 7, while a pH below 7 is acidic.  When livebearers are confined within soft and acidic water, it seriously impacts their physiology and they weaken and usually do not last long.  Mollies are especially prone to an early demise, but platy will as well.  The tetra should be OK with soft water, but again without the numbers we are guessing.  You can ascertain the hardness from your municipal water supply, probably on their website they will have water data.  The GH (general hardness) is what we especially need to know, and the KH (carbonate hardness, sometimes termed Alkalinity) is also useful for reasons I won't get into here.  The link TTA posted will.
 
Second comment is that the fish may very well have been carrying something internally.  I have had no end of trouble with disease from the fish acquired from chain stores, to the point I will no longer set foot in these stores.  Many diseases are not visible externally, until the fish weakens, acts odd or just up and dies.  Internal protozoan are many in species, and without dissection by a microbiologist unseen until the fish weakens or dies.  I have quarantined new fish for several weeks, say six or seven, and still had issues arise several weeks after that.
 
How you acclimate the fish to the tank is another issue I'll leave for now.  When we know the numbers for GH, KH and pH of your tap water we can move ahead.  Please do not start fiddling with the pH, as this is bound to end in failure, as that article should explain.  These values are closely inter-connected.  If you have soft water, there are lots of fish that will do well.  Both gourami and Betta are soft water fish.  And keep an eye on the Betta, I have seen these fish easily swallow (or attempt to) neon tetra.  Gourami may as well, depending upon the species.  I spent an interesting five minutes in a local store once, observing two Blue Gourami cornering a neon and then presto, within a few seconds the neon was eaten.
 
Byron.