Need help - Sick Beta

[Corey Webster]

Hi

Sorry, I've posted this twice. The first was in the non-splenden.

I've had my new Beta since Wednesday in a 30 litre cycled Biorb.

The algae growth is rapid (thought recently cleaned), especially when subjected to light. It appears to have attached to the Betas tail which is now shrivelled. It looks depressed and a sad sight from what it was.

Seeing this today, I can see in hindsight that it was losing it's vibrancy daily. Having seen the zoomed in picture now too, I can see the head looks like it's discoloured too.

I lost a very small Raspbora yesterday and on inspection, half it's tail was missing. I'm not sure if this is related. (It could have been eaten by the Beta).

I'd appreciate any help.

 

[Corey Webster]

I've just tested the water and there's a significant problem.

I cycled the tank for 8 weeks (using fish food), witnessed the nitrite rise, fall, then nitrate rise then fall.

I sat for weeks at the following:

PH: 8.0
Amonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

I had these readings up until the 2nd July - Two days before introducing fish:

Copper Harlequin Raspbora (now dead).
Glowlight Danio (very agile currently).
Cory (looks fine, feeding on bottom)
Beta (seemingly diseased).

I took water samples every second day and cleaned algae, so there was some water loss from those samples and drenching my arm. Thus, by the time the fish were due to go into the tank, there was about 1/6th of water missing.

When the fish arrived in bags, I poured them into the tank along with a bit of water. In turn, this filled the water that was missing. I thought this would make no difference. Whether that is a factor or not, I do not know, or if it's mostly due to the presence of fish, but readings are now:

PH: 8.0
Amonia: 0.25
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 5.0

I'd appreciate advice, as I appreciate this water is lethal and likely the problem.

What options do I have?

 

[Corey Webster]

I've went ahead and done a 50% water exchange which seems like the best move I can think of.

I will test the water again soon.

 

[NickAu]

You have lots of problems.

PH: 8.0

Copper Harlequin Raspbora (now dead).
Glowlight Danio (very agile currently).
Cory (looks fine, feeding on bottom)

You PH is too high and your tank is too small for these fish. and they all need to be kept in groups of 6 or more.

How often do you change water?
What do you feed the fish especially the betta
What water conditioner do you use.
Is the tank heated, what is the water temp.

Why are there so many bubbles on the water.

 

[Corey Webster]

Thanks for your reply.

I've done a 50% water change this afternoon (with spring water at PH 6.5 just to eliminate concern of chlorine) shortly after posting, so the PH is likely addressed, but will be taking a reading tomorrow and continuing to monitor.

The fish are there now (and hopefully going nowhere) so the quo is that two 1cm fish are in a 30 litre tank which is considerable. If non-grouping causes stress, then I'll bear that in mind.

With that in mind, is it likely the Raspbora died through stress, through being lonesome and possibly bullied by the Beta?

On that note of 'two fish'....the Beta died and hour ago.

 

[NickAu]

with spring water

Spring water is not suitable for fish you have no idea whats in it or not,
What you have just done by adding water with a PH of 6.5 to water with a PH of 8 is cause the fish a lot of stress and it could kill them.

The Substrate in your tank is not suitable for Cories.

You did not answer my questions.

 

[Corey Webster]

In answer to your questions:

How often do you change water?

The water hasn't been changed until today. I've recently completed a two month fishless cycle (using fish food) and I acquired the fish last Wednesday.

What do you feed the fish especially the betta

Aquarian Tropical Flake Food

What water conditioner do you use.

Fluval Water Conditioner as per instructions.

Is the tank heated, what is the water temp.

28 degrees, 24 hours.

Why are there so many bubbles on the water.

More bubbles appeared when I used a new Tera 50 pump which is more powerful than the noisy stock biorb pump.

 

[Corey Webster]

Spring water is not suitable for fish you have no idea whats in it or not,
What you have just done by adding water with a PH of 6.5 to water with a PH of 8 is cause the fish a lot of stress and it could kill them.

Please note the water stats. The water was already very lethal Q.E.D. and a PH change was the lesser of two evils.

The Substrate in your tank is not suitable for Cories.

Elaboration is appreciated with a contructive suggestion.

 

[NickAu]

How often do you change water?

The water hasn't been changed until today. I've recently completed a two month fishless cycle (using fish food) and I acquired the fish last Wednesday.

Theres your problem. This is whats killing your fish. No water changes equals toxic conditions



Which makes these numbers wrong. There is NO way your ammonia is zero.

Amonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0

I suggest you catch any remaining fish and take them back to the store before they die.

Then we can guide you in cycling and stocking the tank correctly.

 

[NickAu]

Elaboration is appreciated with a contructive suggestion.

Sand.

 

[Corey Webster]

Theres your problem. This is whats killing your fish. No water changes equals toxic conditions

I was informed through several sources that no water changes are required during a fishless cycle.

Which makes these numbers wrong. There is NO way your ammonia is zero.

Readings are correct, over two testing kits, taken pre-fish after the cycle.

I suggest you catch any remaining fish and take them back to the store before they die.

Then we can guide you in cycling and stocking the tank correctly.

Much appreciated Nick.

 

[Essjay]

Can I go back to the beginning.

Fishless cycling with food is very hit and miss as you have no idea how much ammonia the food made and therefore no idea how many bacteria have grown. There may be enough for a fully stocked tank, or there may be insufficient bacteria. The fact that you had zero nitrate at the end of the cycle strongly suggests that it wasn't cycled as the cycling process makes nitrate. When cycling with ammonia, a big water change is done after the cycle has completed to get rid of all this nitrate.

Of the fish species you put in the tank, harlequins, glowlight danios and cories are shoaling fish. (By glowlight danios, do you mean Celestichthys choprae or glofish, the genetically altered zebra danios?)
Shoaling fish have genetic need to be in groups. To put it in human terms, when there aren't enough of them they think something must have eaten the rest of the shoal so they are constantly worried the predator is coming for them next. This is stressful for fish, their immune system suffers and they get sick and die very easily. And by a shoal, we mean at least six fish of the same species, with more being better. If the cory is one of the dwarf species, those do better with at least 10.

Harlequins, glowlights and cories all need tanks bigger than 30 litres. They need room to swim. You commented on the danio being active - both the GM zebra danios and glowlight danios are fast swimmers, and need a long tank. From the photo, your tank looks like a biorb flow 30. This has a footprint of 26 x 37.5 cm (10.25 x 14.75 inches). This is very small for even the dwarf cories as cories live on the bottom of the tank.



OK, so now I've criticised everything, I'll tell you that the tank is a nice size for a betta. My betta's tank is 26 litres and has just 1 male betta and 1 nerite snail, and it is full.

As NickAu suggests, I would take the remaining fish back to the shop, then buy a bottle of ammonia and follow the fishless cycle instructions here http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/ If you are in the UK (you use the word litre) Ebay and Amazon are the best places to look for ammonia.
Could you find out how hard your tap water is, please. You can usually find this somewhere on your water supplier's website, but besides the number you also need to make a note of the unit as there are about half a dozen they could use. You gave the tank pH as 8 earlier - what is the pH of your tap water, both freshly run and a glass of water that has stood overnight? If your water turns out to be hard with a high pH, unfortunately that is not really suitable for bettas so we would have to suggest fish that woud be suitable.

 

[Corey Webster]

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. Very helpful.

Despite my reply being short, I've noted everything and will follow up with some water readings.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Welcome Corey.

I commend you for your willingness to learn what is best for your fish.

You got some very good information from Nick and essjay.



Regarding the substrate for cories... as Nick says, sand is best (though, as essjay points out, this tank is actually too small for them to be housed properly, but for future reference I'll address the sand issue).

Cories snuff their barbels and 'noses' into the substrate in search for food. As such, they require a small grain, soft substrate. Sand is ideally suited, as they actually sift the sand grains through their gills in search for food. Larger grained substrates like gravel,have large gaps where the food can go that the cories sense and will fight to get to and potentially cut their barbels and leads to bacterial infections that can destroy their barbels... and leave them with nubs and can even end up without bits of their mouths missing that leads to them starving to death.


Your tank would be well suited for a single male Betta and maybe a few snails, if you are so inclined. A different option by way of the size of the tank, would be microrasboras... but that would depend on the pH.