Need Help Setting Up First Tank

[matthewlee1959]

I have been doing a lot of research about setting up a new tank and frankly I’m seeing a lot of conflicting information so I’ll just set up our scenario and watch for advice from more experienced members.  First most of the maintenance will be done by Swimminginmusic who is in middle school all day.  I am home on average about 6-7 days a month, so this is mostly her project with dad paying the bills.  I would like to do a planted tank with fish for a couple of reasons.  The first is that once established it seems like the easiest to care for and most forgiving of mistakes.  The second reason is that it would be a great learning experience to see the relationship of plants and animals.  Consider in your replies that you are dealing with complete neophytes who have no idea what anyone is talking about with plant species.
 
We are looking at a 29 gallon tank that will be 30" long, 12" deep and 18" high.  Swimming really wants some Glofish and possibly see how a betta would do in the same tank.  As for the planting style I would like the jungle type with some rock and maybe barrels, cracked pottery and/or driftwood.  If Swimming has any say there will be a portion of Bikini Bottom somewhere in the tank.  We are aware that because of the bright colors of the Glofish, the betta may not like his neighbors and so we may end up with 2 tanks.  It would be planted as well, just smaller.
 
Some of the questions I have would be about the plants we should choose, substrate mix, and need for fertilizer.  As for the fish my questions deal with how soon we should add them, how many fish and what type.  The Glofish are expensive so they are going to wait until dad knows the tank is in good shape.  I understand the concept of 1" of fish per gallon of water in an unplanted tank, but what about a heavily planted tank.  Not only would I like a variety in strata with the fish, but numbers and size as well.  Any thoughts, tips suggestions or downright step by step directions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bigcheed]

this forum has a section dedicated to tank cycling. that would be a great place to start. some easy low maintenance plant types are= anubias , java fern and amazon sword. they usually work well for a beginners set up. they don't really need any special substrate or fertilizer as such. anubias and java fern do better when attached to rocks or wood. mosses like xmas moss or java moss are also good. its hard to select tank mates for bettas. as the temprement of each fish is different. I keep mine in a 10gallon tank with a small shoal of bronze corydoras catfish. this works for me after a little trial and error, but would not necessarily work for someone else. some people keep them without trouble in community tanks. it really is hit and miss. you will get some good advice from this forum there are some really great members who know their stuff. hope your project goes well. oh and welcome to fish keeping.lol

 

[matthewlee1959]

What I'm seeing is that a planted tank shouldn't be cycled the same way a non-planted tank is.  As I understand what I have been reading the plants and bacteria would compete for the same nutrients.  I have even seen people advocating not using a filter, just set up a balance between the plants and fish, then do water changes to freshen the water.  I understand that there may not be one "right" answer, but would like to avoid any critical mistakes that requires starting over from scratch.
 
The Glofish I've been referring to are the genetically modified Zebras.  I warned Swimming that some consider them an abomination, but with her love of art, in all areas, I can certainly understand her desire to have fish that add bright color to the tank.

 

[bigcheed]

I understand your confusion. there are many methods and theorys as to the correct way. one sure fire thing that will help though is some seeded media. this can be either filter foam or gravel from an already established aquarium. the foam you would squish into your own filter so as to introduce the bacteria cultures in it to your own media. gravel can be put into a pouch made from mesh or an old nylon stocking and placed directly into the tank. providing these bacteria cultures with a food source ie introducing ammonia into the aquarium will cause them to grow and seed your aquarium. hence its name, seeding. this can also speed up the cycling process. I have used this method to good effect. some local fish stores provide seeded media if you ask them nicely. also adding your plants from the get go shouldn't effect the cycling to much. I think it only matters in a really densely planted tank or biotope. there are also supplements that can help kick start the cycle such as safe start. these also contain cultures of bacteria that will boost the start of the nitrogen cycle.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Good on you for doing research first. That is often the place most beginners slip up!
 
I'm going to say no to the Glofish. The reason is that because they are modified Zebra Danios, they require a tank of at least four feet.
Instead of Glofish, have you looked at maybe getting Neon/Cardinal Tetras instead? They're nice and colourful  
Or, you could have Rummynose Tetras?
 
The Betta may work, each Betta fish is different and some Bettas are absolutely fine in a community tank where as others will kill anything that moves.
Its up to you and your daughter if you want to take the chance, if you do still want to, make sure you have a backup plan for the Betta in case anything goes wrong.
 
Cycling with plants is almost the same as cycling without. The only difference is that the plants will absorb ammonia and nitrate.
It is possible to cycle with just plants, this is called the "silent cycle", but it requires lots of fast growing plants and I wouldn't recommend it for a beginner.
You can plant the tank either before or after the cyle but if you plant it before, treat the tank as if it doesn't have any plants. Some ammonia will probably be absorbed (depends on the plants) but most likely not all of it, this is why you still need to cycle.
If you follow the cycling guide (linked in my signature) then your cycle will go well.
 
What plants you have will depend on what fertilizer is needed, some plants don't need any fertilizer at all. 
Seachem's Flourish Excel always helps though.

 

[Nikki77D]

I have tried bettas in community tanks and some have been okay with other fish and some killed the other fish, also I've noticed most of the community fish would bite the bettas long finns and they would always look horrible, so for sure have a back up tank for the betta, or maybe try a female betta would give you better luck but still watch agression.

 

[matthewlee1959]

I remember purchasing a pair of blind cave tetras that were supposed to get along with other fish-they didn't.  That was a lesson learned over 40 years ago.  Even if 9 out of 10 get along with other fish, there is always the 1 that doesn't.
 
We've had to downsize our plans for the first aquarium.  My wife took one look at the size and cost of a 30 gallon and compared it to the 10.  Swimming is going to start with a 10 gallon while she makes sure this is a hobby she enjoys and can handle.  Then we can move up to larger sizes.

 

[daizeUK]

That's a shame because your choices of fish will be far more restricted in a 10g.  I don't think you could get danios/glofish in that.
IMO a 20-30g is a much better choice for a beginner as there is more potential for mistakes in a 10g.

 

[matthewlee1959]

We're going with tetras for now with maybe a betta as a centerpoint.  Frankly I wasn't going to shell out the money for Glowfish, (glofish?) until we had a well established tank and maintenance down till it was second nature.  It's one thing to learn with a few inexpensive fish and another when a school of six cost more than all the rest of your fish combined.

 

[attibones]

While bigger tanks are always better, a ten gallon is still a decent start. However, keep in mind that you can't keep schooling fish (typically) in a ten gallon because of overcrowding. You can, however, get several very interesting species. You could keep peacock gudgeons, killifish, a single betta (not in a community, as the tank size provides little room for shelter), or a ton of others found in our nano tank section. I'll pop over there and get you the link. There are plenty of choices, but you'll want to avoid schooling fish for the most part. Tetras especially need not be in your tank, not even the small cardinal tetra.

A word on the "inch per gallon" rule. While this is a handy beginning guide for some people, one must also take into consideration the footprint of the tank, the activity level of the fish, the schooling needs of the fish, and its potential size. You can't get a ten inch fish for a ten gallon tank, for example, even though it meets the "inch per gallon" rule.
And here is that link I promised you:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/418749-nano-fish/