Need help emergency! Betta and cardinal terra

[WhistlingBadger]

Prime should only be added to new water at a water change; it should not be used as a medication and added to the tank without a water change.

Yes, I misspoke on that. Prime is not an alternative to water changes (though I have used it to get critters through emergencies when water changes weren't possible), but it will keep things healthy in between.

 

[Essjay]

I would not get any more neons - or any other fish.

30 litres is a small tank, too small for most fish. Neon tetras, for example, need a tank at least 60 cm long. They are also shoaling fish which means a group of at least 6 with more being better.
And bettas are not community fish; they should be kept alone.

 

[Ap97]

Hi thanks everyone, I have been advised by people than 30L is more than enough for Betta, and I was only going to replace the tetra that died so there is 6 tetras rather than 5, but I really don’t think I will bother with tetras if anything happens these ones, do I have a chance of saving my fish with daily water changes and adding more live plants? I’m worried that the ammonia and nitrites is going to kill them, as it takes so long for it to turn to nitrates etc I don’t fully understand the cycle but I know ammonia and nitrites are super dangerous and the nitrate isn’t AS bad, I still can’t believe the lady in the shop told me all this would of been complete with the 2 weeks the tank was set up before the fish went in, with her testing the water and stuff, how can she test my water and say parameters are all perfect when there is no ammonia added and ammonia is needed to start the cycle

 

[Essjay]

I should have been more specific - 30 litres is plenty for a betta but virtually all the other fish suitable for this size tank are so small that the betta would see them as food. Even if he couldn't catch them they'd be very stressed by him chasing them.

Larger tetras like neons and cardinals need a tank at least 60 cm long, and unless your 30 litre tank is a very unusual shape it is unlikely to have this length. I would not get any more of them, just leave them to live out their lives. (Unless you were to get another, larger tank and move them into that)

Since you are doing a fish-in cycle, water changes are the way to save your fish. As the others have said, get a test kit - one that tests for ammonia and nitrite as a minimum. Strip testers don't include ammonia so you'd need a separate tester for that, though liquid testers are more accurate.
Until you have testers, change at least half the tank water every day. As long as dechlorinator is added to the new water and the temperature is roughly the same as the tank water the fish won't come to harm. Once you have the testers, test every day and do a water change every time you see a reading for ammonia and/or nitrite above zero.

The first part of this link explains what happens when you put fish in a tank which has not been cycled first. The second part is how to cycle a tank before fish are put in it, you can ignore that bit.

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

Plants use ammonia as fertiliser so they can help to keep the ammonia level low. And they don't turn it into nitrite so that is also kept low. Floating plants are best for this - water sprite is one of the best. But you can also use elodea (aka egeria) left to float.

Tetra Safe Start could also help - it is one of the most highly recommended bacterial starters. But it won't cycle the tank instantly, it'll still take some time though less time that without it.




Finally, one lesson we have all learned the hard way. Fish shop workers are the worst people to give advice. So many of them don't know or don't care and will make up any rubbish. Always do your own research. The best place for researching fish is https://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/

 

[Ap97]

Hi a lot of people on this site have been telling me the same thing, I am no expert but I am literally brand new to fish keeping and even I had a gut feeling what the people in the shop were telling me especially after doing extensive research online. I knew straight away about an hour after the fish went in something wasn’t right. I have purchased the API master testing kit from amazon (the liquid testing kit) not taking any chances with the strip tests. It was expensive but worth it rather than my poor fish suffering any more. I feel like a fish murderer haha I feel awful, it’s nice to know so many people out there care about these fragile creatures. Going to do another water change as soon as I wake up tomorrow and will test the water again the next day when my test kit arrives. I’m struggling to find any of these plants In stores I have been to every store in my city and nowhere has these specific ones, nor moss balls. I will order some online but by the time they be delivered they probably won’t be much help by then, but I could do with them in my tank anyway. I’ve removed all plastic ornaments so now there are only live plants, almond leaf and a stone bridge. I can’t wait for them to be healthy again and to see my Bettas tail grow back he will be so gorgeous

 

[Naughts]

Get the floating plants, betta love resting under them and tetras enjoy the shade.
Fish shops are poorly stocked due to shipping problems but EBay has lots. I just got some lovely dwarf hyacinth on Amazon, seller is proximus_N1.
Good luck.

 

[Essjay]

I use k2aqua on Ebay because he guarantees his plants shrimp safe and I have shrimps. At the moment he has listed both elodea and water sprite (he uses the Latin name Ceratopteris cornuta rather than water sprite). If you order early in the day he posts the same day.

Until you can get these plants, lots of water changes - daily, at least 50%. Be guided by the ammonia and nitrite levels.



[edit to add - elodea is what we in the UK call anacharis before anyone suggests that as well ]

 

[Ap97]

Hi I have ordered some water sprite, Elodea and moss balls, also my water testing kit comes tomorrow from amazon. I have done another 50% water change aswell. My Betta is now starting to act stressed so I’m worrying now as he was at least still behaving normally but now it’s starting to show so I really hope he will survive. I have noticed I think he has slight pop eye now too, so I’m not sure if I should risk it by ONLY treating him with water changes etc and I should get some fin rot/Popeye medication once the water parameters are okay? What do you think? Should I just wait until the water is okay, use the salts and the almond leaves and let him heal on his own, or buy some medicine just in case?

 

[Ap97]

Also, am I doing wrong by not feeding my fish? To be honest they wasn’t eating much anyway so I don’t want to put food in for it to just sink to the bottom and cause more problems in the tank. I read that fish can survive without food for a few days anyway, am I doing the right thing?

 

[seangee]

Feed sparingly 2 or 3 times a week 4-8 hours before changing the water. Keep up with 75% daily water changes until you figure what is going on.
Just a thought - do you know the pH of your tank water?

 

[Ap97]

I hope he survives and hangs in there until the plants are delivered, and I’m not sure on the PH the store didn’t mention it they just showed me the ammonia and nitrites in the bottle, but my own liquid testing kit comes tomorrow so I can test it myself, hopefully the fish are still alive , they’ve lasted this long so far

 

[Ap97]

I have already made another thread explaining my issues, but I will keep it short here. 1 Betta and 5 cardinals in the tank, (tank is 2 weeks old and was left “cycling” for 2 weeks before fish went in) but the cycle wasn’t done correctly due to poor advice from the pet shop staff. Already lost 3 tetras and my Betta has fin rot and it’s basically a race against time to save my fish now. Had water tested in store and ammonia levels are high and nitrites are higher than should be. Been doing large daily water changes, vacuumed gravel, have almond leaves in tank, some live plants (have ordered some water sprite, moss balls and elodea due for delivery in 1-2 days). Just read on google that by lowering the ph can help with the ammonia poisoning, then also read that aeration in the tank can cause ph to rise. My own testing kit won’t arrive from amazon until tomorrow, but until then, should I turn off my air stone? Will this have any effect on the co2/oxygen/ ph levels in the tank? Thanks everyone!

 

[seangee]

It won't make any difference. The large water changes should keep the ammonia and nitrite at bay. You are already doing everything you can.

 

[Byron]

Agree. Water changes, substantial once a day. Monitor ammonia and nitrite with your tests, and when they both read zero consecutive days thee cycling part of the problem is resolved. Add a bacterial supplement can help, Tetra SafeStart, but anything similar won't hurt.

Water surface disturbance ensures good oxygen supply in the water and this is critical especially when fish are already under attach in the gills from ammonia and nitrite. Increasing this disturbance is better than decreasing.

As for the fin rot, this is likely ammonia burning. Do not make things worse by "treating" it, just work to get the water clean and the bacteria working.

 

[Essjay]

One thing you can do in the meantime is look on your water company's website at two things. The first is the water quality report. This will tell you some useful things such as the amount of nitrate in your tap water. They'll tell you the number of samples they tested, the lowest, highest and mean levels of those samples.
Next hydrogen ions - that's pH. Again lowest highest and mean.

Finally in a different section, hardness. They might just give it in words which can be misleading. If you are lucky, they'll give you a number. Make a note of that number and the unit of measurement - UK water companies often use different units from fish keeping so we have to convert the number.