Need Cichlid Advice

[ImperfectFaerie]

Well first off i'm new to these boards so I'd figure i'd introduce myself. I'm a college student that lives in the U.S. (Michigan) and between my girlfriend and I we have had almost every animal under the sun besides large tropical fish Right now we have two ferrets named Oscar Bear and Ziggy and a few glo-lite tetras, black skirt tetras, a loach and an african dwarf frog.

First off here are some pictures of our carpet sharks at their finest (looking confused and sleeping)

Secondly, here are pics of the 29 gallon with 1/2 flourite and black gravel, pump/light/heater and some corkscrew val, dwarg sag, camboba and a mystery plant (anyone know what it is?) that are temporarily planted. The bog wood and slate is yet to be added. We are on the second day of the two week cycle and yesterday I added some water from our smaller tank to hopefully help the cycle.

Alright on to the questions
First off, this tank will be slightly planted, nothing rediculous but I would like to play around with half a dozen different species and make it look nice. Also, the tank will have come caves and hiding holes via the bogwood and slate that is yet to go in.

The two of us are very interested in cichlids and have been reading up on them for a couple weeks now. I know there are quite a few things to keep in mind such as their aggressiveness and size, but we would really like to have at least a couple different small kinds in this tank. This is where I want you guys honest opinions

What kind of cichlids would you consider putting in this tank?

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

*bump* still need advice! thanks!

 

[chris1974]

*bump* still need advice! thanks!

sorry mate would advise if i could but im a newb too

nice ferrets though 8)

 

[sylvia]

Hi and welcome to the forum

I love ferrets!!!

Is the 29 gallon in the picture the one currently containing those tetras, laoch etc that you mentioned? If so, it'll limmit what cichlids you can keep. Also, you're going to have to be a little more specific - just how many of each species of tetra and which species of loach? Some loach species can be bullies, others grow quite large, others are nocturnal etc - 'loach' is very general.

If you want 'community' cichlids, a pair of german blue/gold rams or bolivian rams (these are hardier) are a good place to start. Unfortunately, as is typical with cichlids, these fish are territorial and become even mroe aggressive when breeding but, by cichlid standards, they are peaceful and make good community fish. the downside is that it's difficult to keep more than a pair (or two) if you want to keep things civil. Both these species grow to about 3" so aren't very big at all.

If, on the other hand, you are not going to be keeping the cichlids in with the other fish you mentioned (BTW, I wouldn't eprsonaly keep the frog in with the cichlids), you could try quite a few others though keep in mind that some of the larger or more aggressive cichlids have a habit of dessimating aquatic plants - usualy because of their digging. If this is what you're planning, I'd strongly advise deciding on whether you want to go for new world cichlids (south/central american fish - the rams I mentioned are from here but so are a vast number of lesser known species as well as some extremely popular fish) or african. If you choose african, you may well not be able to maintain a planted tank for long but you'll be rewarded with the variety that comes from the rift lakes. Again, 29 gallons isn't realy large enough for the bigger (and generaly aggressive) cichlids but you can find african species that are equaly suited to your tank. You may want to begin by looking into the unusual 'shell-dwelling' species. Alternatively, stick with a 'classic' and look up the kribensis (pulcher) which is a riverine african species (ie: not from a rift lake so doesn't have the same hard water requirements). These grow to about 3.5" and are also very easy to breed.

BTW, when you've decided whether you'd like to go african or new world, check out the appropriate forum sections as you'll get mroe specific replies there.

Oh, and don't add any fish to your tank if it's not fully cycled!

 

[Bullrock74]

We are on the second day of the two week cycle and yesterday I added some water from our smaller tank to hopefully help the cycle.

Adding water from the other tank won't help your cycle, but adding some media containing some beneficial bacteria would drastically help it out. I don't know what kind of filter you have on the other tank, but if any of its media can be shared with the new tank, that would drastically reduce your cycle time. Or, you can take some of the substrate (gravel/sand whichever you use) from the other tank and put in the new tank. That will reduce cycle time as well.

Your tank would be large enough for a pair (male & female) of convict cichlids...they are very entertaining, but they make babies like rabbits. Also, they are intolerant of any other fish anywhere near them while breeding. But, they are not shy fish and have a lot of personality.

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

Sorry, to clarify my previous post the fish are NOT in the 29 gallon, they are in another smaller tank. The loach is a kuhli loach.

As far as cycling, I thought adding something that would have amonia in it (i.e. fish waste from the other tank) would help? How exactly would I share the bacteria from the other filters? Just scrapw it off

After talking to people at the local fish place (who are quite knowledgable) it seems that a) both african and new world cichlids would make a mess of plants and B) the shell dweller species would be the ones to look into but they are quite more expensive.

So at this point it seems that fi i want to try and planted tank I'll be staying away from cichlids but there are tons of other kinds i'm interested in creating a community tank with. Any suggested community tank combos?

 

[mewhorse]

[
So at this point it seems that fi i want to try and planted tank I'll be staying away from cichlids but there are tons of other kinds i'm interested in creating a community tank with. Any suggested community tank combos?
[/quote]


Community tank that I have (37gallon) has black skirt tetras, bloodfin tetras, neon tetras, cardinal tetra, black neon tetra, zebra danios, tiger barbs (6 so they only pick on each other) plus a few otos and a few corycats....good safe fish seem to be tetras - lots of different ones to choose from, seem to be very strong and live long and never pick on each other...plus fish like cherry barbs & zebra danios are not too expensive and fit in too...even something like a female betta for variety/color (used to have a gorgeous pink one with red lipstick - named her Pink of course!)...and these fish are not livebearers like guppies so you wouldn't be overun by babies... it's too bad about cichlids - so pretty but such a pain! I used to keep a few way back in the day but I like the activity in the tank now! And so many different fish to choose from!

 

[Bullrock74]

As far as cycling, I thought adding something that would have amonia in it (i.e. fish waste from the other tank) would help? How exactly would I share the bacteria from the other filters? Just scrapw it off

I'll give you an example...I use Emperor power filters. They have what are called bio-wheels which are places where the beneficial bacteria collect. So, if both tanks have Emperor filters, just take the bacteria-laden bio-wheel from one filter and put in the other filter. Depending on what kind of filters you have, the method would be just slightly different.

After talking to people at the local fish place (who are quite knowledgable) it seems that a) both african and new world cichlids would make a mess of plants

This is true for cichlids without access to the aquarium floor. For example, I had my oscar in a 95 gallon tank where he had little room to reach the aquarium floor because of plants. He ripped them to shreds. But, now he's in a 350 gallon tank with plenty of open aquarium floor space and he now ignores the same plants he was ripping apart. Oscars love to scoop up sand with their mouths, wiggle around in it, and then spit out the sand. I'm sure they are looking for food when they do this, not just playing.

So, proper aquascaping can allow you to keep both cichlids and plants. Just keep in mind that most cichlids are earth-movers/diggers and as such need enough space to do this. I think you should consider getting a pair of convict cichlids...they are entertaining and will not likely destroy your plants because they are too busy basically just getting down with each other.

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

thanks for the tips on stocking the tank

as far as the filter media, the two tanks do not use the same kind of filter, but i was able to put the black sponge-like piece from the smaller tank into the larger filter. I'm just not sure if that carries the needed beneficial bacteria or not

 

[corrosive]

What i did, was take half of the filter media from my old tank (replace it with new media) and then use the used media in my filter for the new tank probably risked using 50% of the media, but the tank has been established for a few years now.

 

[ImperfectFaerie]

how exactly did you do that though? Just scrape it off?

lol I know i'm dumb so I apologize in advance

also, I forgot to add that we're now looking into possibly a couple gouramis and rainbow fish with the tank, probably along with some neon tetras and a couple cory cats

 

[corrosive]

how exactly did you do that though? Just scrape it off?

lol I know i'm dumb so I apologize in advance

also, I forgot to add that we're now looking into possibly a couple gouramis and rainbow fish with the tank, probably along with some neon tetras and a couple cory cats

Sorry bud, i opened the filter... to see the sponge (usually its covered in poop) thats the bit i put into the new tank, the actual sponge.

Edit: Crap sorry, not into the actual tank but into the NEW filter .

 

[sylvia]

Right- how exactly are you 'cycling'?

You can't 'cycle' a tank unless you add a source of ammonia that you are constantly replenishing - old tank water won't cut it - it shouldn't contain any ammonia anyway!

What you need to do is add some fish food. As it rots, it'll produce ammonia. next bacteria will grow in your filter and gravel/substrate to break this ammonia down and produce nitrIte. more bacteria then grow to produce nitrAte. I gather you already know most of this.

Getting gravel or media from an established tank itnroduces the 'good bacteria' so as to enable them to quickly colonise and multiply in the new tank. However, they need 'food' (in the form of ammonia) or else they simply die!

You also need to make shure the tank contains dechlorinated water as chlorine will kill the bacteria (which is why you should never rinse filter media in water directly from the tap) and replace the food every few days to make shure there is a constant supply of ammonia.

You do a 90% water change literally hours before you add your first fish (and a gravel vacuum to get rid of rotting food) so that you get rid of the excessive nitrAtes that will build up once the tank is cycled. The fish then take over the job of producing ammonia before the bacteria start dying out.

Note that the process can take more than 2 weeks but a slightly higher temp. than what's used for fish and a bit of old media or gravel from an established tank should drasticaly speed things up. You'll know when the tank's ready for fish because ammonia and nitrItes will be zero but nitrAtes will be high.

Your LFS, BTW, is incorrect - not all cichlids will be problematic for a planted tank and you are certainly not limmited to shellies (which BTW like hard water so may not be ideal - you need to test your pH and keep in midn that many plants are not tolerant of a high pH). The german blue/gold rams and kribensis (pulcher) I mentioned earlier, as well as keyhole cichlids, apistogramma and lets not forget the ever-popular angelfish, won't usualy bother plants and won't dig them out. There are others too but it all depends on what size tank you have.

 

[Bullrock74]

Right- how exactly are you 'cycling'?

Good point, guess I just assumed it was fishless cycling. If you're not adding a source of ammonia, search for fishless cyling on this forum. You will get all the info you need.

 

[sylvia]

I have a link in my signature about fishless cycling as well BTW