Need Argument To Get Sand.

[SBL]

Well, me and my grandfather went to the LFS today to fix a leak. We got the silicone and a background for the tank. Well, we went over to the substrate and I wanted sand for the cories. Well, the lady who was helping us said something along the lines of, "Sand isn't reccomeneded for freshwater cause it isn't colonized with bacteria easily and is harder to clean than gravel. Also, all leftover food and poo is left on top and isn't broken up like gravel does. Freshwater and sand doesn't mix well."I wouldv'e said something but, I knew better. I tried to explain why I wanted it for the 30 tall but, he said, "She said sand and freshwater doesn't mix. So, no. I'm not getting sand." I know that leftover food and poo will stay on top. Also, I would've said, "I know all that but, if poo and food is broken up by gravel, it is still there and converts to ammonia. I know you can see the poo and food, I'm willing to clean it upeveryday. You must think I've just started but, I've had 2 29 gallons and been fish keeping for a few years. Also, why do alot of people have sand? Why arebrands of sand made just for freshwater? Also, 2-3 inches of sand creates a layer of bacteria. I want sand and I'm willing to take the hassle." I knew better though.

 

[rebrn]

Well the comment that sand isn't colonized with bacteria easily doesn't make sense since the majority of bacteria is colonized in the filter, so not sure what the LFS person was thinking there. If you want a valid argument to give your grandfather, you could try saying that the sand is better for the cories, less harmful then the gravel, the sand has less potential for injury. Not sure if that is actually true but it might work. I personally find the sand easier to clean because everything stays on top, but, and I am sure you already know this, you have to stir up your sand to avoid it becoming aerobic and greating pockets of gas that, I believe, are toxic to the fish. But like I said I am sure you already know all that. But the less harmful to the fish argument might work. If that doesn't you can try the "it is more natural" argument. A lot of rivers/streams (freshwater sources) have sandy bottoms, so you could try that too.

Good Luck.

 

[erk628]

I've got four tanks which all have sand for about 4 years now so ill start with what the lady at the LFS said. Regardless of your substance almost all of your bacteria is in your filter don't believe me take out the substance test you water the next day and see the results. Now take you filter out put a brand new one in test your water the next day and look at your results. Yeah the food and poo set on top of the sand but almost all of it is caught by your filter. The only way you going to see it is if you have nothing in your tank. The whole sand isn't for fresh water is just silly. Now seeing how you have cories you don't want gravel because cories like to shift through the substance and if you have gravel over time it will wear there barbs down sand won't. Lastly don't buy sand at the LFS its really over priced. Go to a hardware store like lowes or menards and buy play sand you can either get brown or white I prefer the white you can get a 50 pound bag for 3 to 4 something. To clean it use a gravel vac take the platic tube off and just use the hose and hover over the sand. Ever week or two stir the same with you hand to release and gas build up and bring up and food or poo that got shifted down.

 

[GAB99]

woudnt the cories shift the sand for you if you had enough of them?

 

[ellena]

She's probably still in the 70's with undergravel filters. Then all the bacteria were in the gravel, but the argument doesn't hold any water as you can't use sand with and undergravel filter anyway-it would all get sucked in. So she needs to move on, me thinks!
If you want cories, you really need to have sand to protect their delicate barbels.
Perhaps if you explain why she has this silly idea in her head, he might go with you. And perhaps try to find some cory care info

 

[nmonks]

Sand isn't reccomeneded for freshwater cause it isn't colonized with bacteria easily and is harder to clean than gravel.

Sand is no more or less easy to clean than gravel. The difference is that solid waste (such as faeces) can't sink between sand grains the way they do in gravel, so solid waste sits on top of sand, and is therefore easier to see. Arguably, this is a good thing because it shows you if your tank isn't being cleaned properly by the filter. As for bacteria, as others have pointed out, unless you are using an undergravel filter, most of the filtration bacteria are in the filter. These bacteria need lots of oxygen, so grow where there's a current of water. In tanks with gravel but no undergravel filter, there will be filter bacteria along the top 1 cm, but that's about it.

I know all that but, if poo and food is broken up by gravel, it is still there and converts to ammonia.

It's important to separate out in your mind mechanical filtration (which is largely about removing faeces, silt and other solid particles) and biological filtration (denitrification of ammonia and then nitrite). Faeces contain very little nitrogen, or at least, little nitrogen that ends up as ammonia. Most of the ammonia produced by freshwater comes from their gills, where it is released not from digestion but from protein metabolism at a cellular level all around the body.

Why are brands of sand made just for freshwater?

While this is true, not all brands of sand are equally good. Some brands, for example Tahitian Moon Sand, look nice but aren't compatible with soft-bellied or burrowing fish. This is because these synthetic sands (often the black and coloured ones) are produced as a byproduct of glass manufacture, and are very sharp. Fine for planted tanks with midwater tetras, bad for tanks with dwarf cichlids and catfish. You need to choose the correct sand for your particular type of fish.

Cheers, Neale

 

[SBL]

Doesn't mater anymore. I'll find another bottom dweller to pick up left overs. No cories for me but, I may get Bolivians. I just got finished filling the tank, putting in the cartridge, and planting plants. I guess gravel is good for the plants seeing as the poo will sink down and become fertilizer.

 

[nmonks]

seeing as the poo will sink down and become fertilizer.

This is a myth. Doesn't work this way at all.

Cheers, Neale

 

[SBL]

Ohh, ok. Well, looks pretty good filled. Just needs to be planted.

 

[GAB99]

so, all black sand is bad for catfish?

 

[nmonks]

No, but most black sands that are glass byproducts (potentially) are. Sharp sand will abrade the whiskers and damage their bellies, making them susceptible to secondary infections. If you visit the Carib Sea web site for example, they specifically list which sands are good with burrowers and which ones are good with soft-bellied animals. Tahitian Moon Sand fails on both counts (you have to read through their glossary though to find out precisely what these terms mean).

Cheers, Neale

so, all black sand is bad for catfish?

 

[didz04]

Hi
What about crystal clear silica (white) sand.
This type of sand that i have put in recently is really flakey and like snow substance which is really nice.
Although with this all the plec waste is always on top and can see it everywhere and being white substrate easy to see, will it be not best to keep a plec with this substrate. Funny thing is that it is a common plec and my tinanti congo cichlid (bottom dweller) always blows out sand out of his mouth and straight onto my plec and it all gets stuck on him, so he looks like a different species a snow plec lol. I will try and get pics of him uploaded to show you. Another thing is when the congo blows out sand it takes time to settle like snow but at the same time looks really nice.
yeah so i will have to move around the sand with my hand every week and this sand should be safe for fish that burrow right...?
Thanks

 

[nmonks]

What about crystal clear silica (white) sand.

No idea. Unfortunately, I don't have a memory bank in my brain filled with the characteristics of every type of sand sold in aquarium shops worldwide. As mentioned above, Carib Sea state up front the characteristics of their sands, so it's easy enough to check. Other manufacturers may have this information available on their web sites. If they don't state something is safe for burrowers and soft-bellied fish, I'd assume it wasn't. Smooth silica sand is widely sold in garden centres, chemically inert, and completely safe with catfish and cichlids, so is a good default sand to use if nothing else is available.

yeah so i will have to move around the sand with my hand every week and this sand should be safe for fish that burrow right...?

Not sure what you're asking here. Stirring sand weekly is a good idea, but isn't strictly necessary if you have plants, since their roots oxygenate the sand and absorb the products of organic decay. Malayan livebearing snails are good "earthworms" for sandy aquaria too, though loaches and catfish will generally keep the upper levels of sand clean too. The idea anaerobic decay in sand creates dangerous amounts of hydrogen sulphide seems largely to be erroneous, especially if the sand isn't too deep (5-6 cm should be ample, half that if you don't have plants with roots).

Cheers, Neale

 

[OldMan47]

When it comes to cories or bottom dwellers, pay attention while you are using your hand to stir the sand to clean it in that bucket. If it feels rough to your hand, it is not a good sand for the fish. If it feels smooth and soft in your hands with no irritation, it is a fine bottom dweller sand. If you are out shopping for sand, take a pinch of sand from the inevitable broken bag you will find and rub it in the palm of your hand with a finger. Again, the texture will guide you far better than any brand name.

 

[SBL]

Well, got to talking with him about the benfits of sand and he started to find something on google. I asked him what he was looking for and he said, "Where I can ask questions about aquariums." I said I'm a member on a forum he wants to know the Do's and Don'ts with Sand and Freshwater Aquariums.