Native pygmy perch pond?

[elephantnose3334]

Perth Zoo breeds the endangered Western Swamp Turtle but doesn't have much to do with fish.

There's virtually no information on the hairy marron as to its evolution, other than the smooth marron was an offshoot of the hairy marron and the smooth marron survived better.

To hold marron or any freshwater crayfish, use your fingers to grab them from above. You put your fingers on the sides of the carapace above the legs, near where it meets the tail. If you plan on holding them for a few minutes, hold them upside down.

What if the Perth Zoo did breed the new species of hairy marron (discovered in the 1990s)? Why do zoos get permits on breeding natives while breeders, who try to save species from extinction, don't usually have a permit?

Also today I saw a Perth river biotope tank with western pygmy perch, galaxias and a few others at the Perth Pases Aqua shop. They were in a large Juwel tank, but don't know the length, diameter and height of the tank. They also had some rainbows, American flagfish and some gudgeon species (peacock included) in Petworx tanks. It almost looks like a fishroom except they sell pond fish. I might do an American flagfish tank after I have done my project for my cardinal tetras (haven't got the tank or doing the project yet, it may take a while until I have enough money for both projects). I just need some plants native to Florida to make the flagfish tank work, but I don't know if my LFS sells North American native plants.

This has been going on for decades. Back in the 1980s I was breeding native finches and small parrots. I had been trying to get orange bellied parrots but wasn't allowed. The birds were considered threatened and the government was looking for people to captive breed these birds. I was putting my hand up saying gimme some and they didn't care. There were a number of people in bird clubs around the country that could have bred them and they would have done it for free just to keep the species alive. None of us were allowed to have any. About 10 years later they gave some to a private zoo that started breeding them but during that 10 year period, the number of wild birds crashed to about 100 individuals.

The Gouldian finch is another one. For over a hundred years the local aboriginals in the Kimberley were telling the government not to burn the bush when they were. The aboriginals used to burn areas of bush at certain times of the year and it worked for thousands of years. White man came along and started burning the bush when they wanted to, which was the wrong time of year. Gouldian finch numbers dropped because the fires destroyed the food source and the birds were put on the endangered species list. Again they were looking for people to breed the birds. I actually kept them and said I would love to get a number of the birds for breeding just to add to my bloodlines. No chance. Years went past and they eventually found a farmer up north who was willing to breed them on his property. Again the numbers of birds had dropped dramatically while they were stuffing about trying to find breeders and it shouldn't have happened because there were literally hundreds of finch breeders around the country who wanted to help.

How did the orange-bellied parrot and Gouldian finch came into your mind? What's happening to them currently? Why didn't the government allow you to breed both birds? A captive breeding project could've helped wild populations thrive if the gov allowed you to breed them.

 

[Seisage]

Why do zoos get permits on breeding natives while breeders, who try to save species from extinction, don't usually have a permit?

Zoos are professional institutions with money, resources, researchers, and veterinarians to back them up. Hobbyists don't typically have those. Most large public zoos around the world are also accredited by an outside organization that creates guidelines and requirements for animal husbandry, welfare, and conservation, which the zoo must follow or else it loses the accreditation and the respect that comes with it. These accreditations are a good way to ensure that the zoo is meeting welfare standards for animals and meeting conservation goals because there are consequences if they don't meet them. Not only can they lose their accreditation, they may also be fined.

All of this makes zoos very trusted institutions when it comes to species conservation. That is likely why governments trust them over individual hobbyist breeders. That's not to say that hobbyist breeders are bad or unethical. Very many of them are quite good at what they do. However, there is no set list of standards that hobbyist breeders must follow and there is often no real way to hold them accountable if they don't meet the generally agreed-upon standards for welfare and maintenance of good genetics. That makes it very risky for those looking to set up breeding programs to go to individual breeders that aren't associated with an institution, and so zoos are preferred.

I want to be clear here. Zoos and aquariums do try to save species from extinction. As I mentioned, many accrediting organizations require zoos and aquariums to have conservation programs in order to be accredited. While there may not be breeding programs for every species that's kept at the zoo, they must do at least some conservation work. This work may include breeding, or it could include work to restore habitats or educate people on the issues the animals face in the wild. Breeding is not the only way to save a species, although it can help.

It would be great if hobbyist breeders were allowed to be more involved with species conservation, but I think in order to do that, institutions like zoos would have to coordinate directly with hobbyists in order to lend the hobbyists credibility and potentially provide some additional resources to them.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Zoos are professional institutions with money, resources, researchers, and veterinarians to back them up. Hobbyists don't typically have those. Most large public zoos around the world are also accredited by an outside organization that creates guidelines and requirements for animal husbandry, welfare, and conservation, which the zoo must follow or else it loses the accreditation and the respect that comes with it. These accreditations are a good way to ensure that the zoo is meeting welfare standards for animals and meeting conservation goals because there are consequences if they don't meet them. Not only can they lose their accreditation, they may also be fined.

All of this makes zoos very trusted institutions when it comes to species conservation. That is likely why governments trust them over individual hobbyist breeders. That's not to say that hobbyist breeders are bad or unethical. Very many of them are quite good at what they do. However, there is no set list of standards that hobbyist breeders must follow and there is often no real way to hold them accountable if they don't meet the generally agreed-upon standards for welfare and maintenance of good genetics. That makes it very risky for those looking to set up breeding programs to go to individual breeders that aren't associated with an institution, and so zoos are preferred.

I want to be clear here. Zoos and aquariums do try to save species from extinction. As I mentioned, many accrediting organizations require zoos and aquariums to have conservation programs in order to be accredited. While there may not be breeding programs for every species that's kept at the zoo, they must do at least some conservation work. This work may include breeding, or it could include work to restore habitats or educate people on the issues the animals face in the wild. Breeding is not the only way to save a species, although it can help.

It would be great if hobbyist breeders were allowed to be more involved with species conservation, but I think in order to do that, institutions like zoos would have to coordinate directly with hobbyists in order to lend the hobbyists credibility and potentially provide some additional resources to them.

Zoos may be a good choice if anyone wants to conserve different animals.

 

[elephantnose3334]

What if the Perth Zoo did breed the new species of hairy marron (discovered in the 1990s)? Why do zoos get permits on breeding natives while breeders, who try to save species from extinction, don't usually have a permit?

Also today I saw a Perth river biotope tank with western pygmy perch, galaxias and a few others at the Perth Pases Aqua shop. They were in a large Juwel tank, but don't know the length, diameter and height of the tank. They also had some rainbows, American flagfish and some gudgeon species (peacock included) in Petworx tanks. It almost looks like a fishroom except they sell pond fish. I might do an American flagfish tank after I have done my project for my cardinal tetras (haven't got the tank or doing the project yet, it may take a while until I have enough money for both projects). I just need some plants native to Florida to make the flagfish tank work, but I don't know if my LFS sells North American native plants.

How did the orange-bellied parrot and Gouldian finch came into your mind? What's happening to them currently? Why didn't the government allow you to breed both birds? A captive breeding project could've helped wild populations thrive if the gov allowed you to breed them.

Also @Colin_T, it might be a bit off-topic, but what do you think about Scape It? You can drag and drop stuff on a virtual tank for aquascape visions that will later come to life. I have a thread about it if you want to join in. Back on topic now. Have you made a Perth river biotope tank with pygmy perch before?

 

[Colin_T]

no idea about scape it, never heard of it until you started a thread about it

i dont do biotope tanks. the fish go in with plants and either live or die

 

[elephantnose3334]

no idea about scape it, never heard of it until you started a thread about it

i dont do biotope tanks. the fish go in with plants and either live or die

Here's the website for Scape It if you're interested.

Scape It

Create your aquascaping layouts with the Scape It editor. Its fast, easy and absolutely free.

scape-it.io

I did a vision of a future aquascape on the Scape It editor. It's simple but moderately planted.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Reviving the thread because of discussion about ongoing government issues regarding native fish.

Perth Zoo breeds the endangered Western Swamp Turtle but doesn't have much to do with fish.

There's virtually no information on the hairy marron as to its evolution, other than the smooth marron was an offshoot of the hairy marron and the smooth marron survived better.

To hold marron or any freshwater crayfish, use your fingers to grab them from above. You put your fingers on the sides of the carapace above the legs, near where it meets the tail. If you plan on holding them for a few minutes, hold them upside down.

I see. There is an understanding on evolution of the marron/yabby species. I hope someone studies the evolution of the hairy marron. I think what's interesting is about the government. What were some of the other examples of the fisheries department being mega cops, other than those 5 mentioned?

I'm a young grasshopper, and I now support conserving natives after seeing a pond shop in Cockburn (coh-burn). The shop almost looks like a fish room; native fish occupying most of their tanks. Natives are unique and must be protected by hobbyists or else they will be extinct. Currently focusing on Northwestern chameleon shrimp. I'm from the city, as driving too far away is not good for my mind and can be tiring, but it'll be worth it. It's sad that the government won't let us protect the natives we have in the south and north west.

I wish I changed the laws, but again, I'm a teenager and still have a lot of years to go. I am enthusiastic about not only South American fish, but native fish too. Is there a way to actually save species from extinction? Natives are a good thing due to the ecosystems where they live in. They keep the local food chain stable.

Also, I will keep you updated on the upcoming native shrimp tank on my diary thread posted on the 19th.

 

[Colin_T]

The only way to save native fish, plants, animals and birds is to protect their environment, stop poisoning their habitat, stop climate change, and stop human encroachment on wild areas. However, there is no money in that and the governments don't care. So the only real way to save endangered species is to collect them and keep them at home in clean environments that haven't had any introduced things in.

You can write to the state and federal governments and tell them you have concerns about the native fishes becoming extinct due to climate change and habitat loss. You will probably get a response saying Thankyou for your concern. Blah Blah Blah and that is it. Nothing will come of it and the fish will die out.

You can start an awareness campaign and set up a website dedicated to a particular species or group of animals. People might see it and offer to help, but without the government protecting the environment and stopping climate change, you are bashing your head against a brick wall.