Native pygmy perch pond?

[elephantnose3334]

Is it possible to have a medium-sized container pond with western pygmy perch, a WA native? The local pond shop at Cockburn (coh-burn) sells these fish. Can I do a captive-breeding project for western pygmy perch? Is it a good idea to do a captive-breeding program for these fish? Any advice on how to look after them?

 

[Colin_T]

You can keep and breed them in a tank that is 3 foot long of bigger. If you have a pond that is 3 foot or bigger that will do. They are fine in Perth water, which is soft but has a pH well above 7.0. They eat just about anything and breed readily during the warmer weather. They do need a cool period over winter but are fine at 30C+ in summer.

If you want pygmy perch, go and collect your own. Don't buy them from the shop because they are not clean and usually very stressed out. This is due to the government banning the collection and sale of these fish in WA. The only fish that are meant to be for sale in this state have come from over east. The fish are caught here, sent over east, and then bought by shops here. It's stupid and doesn't help anyone or the fish.

You can find pygmy perch in any river or creek in the southern half of this state. North of the Great Dividing Range is one species, and south is another species that looks almost identical. There are a couple of other pymgy perch in the south-west of WA too. Dave Morgan at Murdoch University has done research on them and reclassified them. He had some help from others including Mark Allen if I recall correctly. There's a number of books on pygmy perch and native fishes of the south-west of WA, and ANGFA WA members have some info about them. There should also be some books on them at the ANGFA WA library, assuming ANGFA WA is still going. They used to have a meeting every second month and the Aquarium Society of WA had their meeting on the other month. A lot of people were in both clubs.

If you want to collect some, get a bait trap from BigW or Kmart or a fishing store, put some dry fish pellets in it and drop it in the canning river. Wait 30 minutes then lift it up and carefully put the contents into a container of aerated river water. If you go south of Perth, you can pull over on the side of the road and drop a trap in there and get them. Same north up to GinGin.

There are different colour varieties and ones up by GinGin tend to have a gold sheen over a brown body. The Gardner River West? near Pemberton? had a stunning dark green sheen on black body. If you go to Walpole (400km south of Perth), there is a place called Fernhook Falls about 30km north of Walpole on the South-west Hwy. There are shallow pools along the side of the road, which are home to several species of pygmy perch, Galaxiellas and salamanderfish.

This link is for the Canning River near Araluen Botanic Park. You go along Croyden Rd and turn right down McNess Drive, and just before the bridge on the left hand side is a gravel area where you can park (or used to be able to park, been a few years since I was there). You can walk down to the river and put traps in there or follow the river upstream a few hundred meters and put it in a pool. In spring and summer there are snakes (dugites and tiger snakes) so be careful where you walk. You can also collect pygmy perch and other native fishes during autumn and winter. There are pygmy perch, galaxias occidentalis, Bostockia porosa (nightfish), Tandanus bostocki (catfish) and usually Gambusia.

A word of caution when you go down McNess Drive, do it slowly and carefully because it is a really tight curve and its downhill.

Araluen Botanic Park · 362 Croyden Rd, Roleystone WA 6111, Australia

âââââ · Botanical garden

www.google.com.au

---------------------

This link is for the South-west Hwy in Walpole. Beardmore Rd will take you to Fernhook Falls but the pools with fish in are all along the South-west Hwy in that area and you don't need to go to Fernhook Falls for the fish. However, Fernhook Falls is a really lovely spot to visit, have a picnic and photograph. The drawback is the 5km of corrugated peagravel on Beardmore Road you have to traverse to get to the falls. It's pretty unpleasant driving along that road but the falls are nice.

A word of caution, the pools along Beardmore Rd is where I found a decomposing skull in a plastic shopping bag. If you hop in the water, wear waders and have a bottle of alcohol to disinfect afterwards. And be wary of strangers, most are nice but some are serial killers.

Fernhook Falls · Beardmore Rd, North Walpole WA 6398, Australia

âââââ · Campground

www.google.com.au

---------------------

This is the style of bait trap I used but try and find a dark brown or dark green one. Light green and blue don't work well in fresh water.

https://www.kmart.com.au/product/jarvis-walker-2in.-collapsible-bait-trap-rings-41661369/?

 

[elephantnose3334]

You can keep and breed them in a tank that is 3 foot long of bigger. If you have a pond that is 3 foot or bigger that will do. They are fine in Perth water, which is soft but has a pH well above 7.0. They eat just about anything and breed readily during the warmer weather. They do need a cool period over winter but are fine at 30C+ in summer.

If you want pygmy perch, go and collect your own. Don't buy them from the shop because they are not clean and usually very stressed out. This is due to the government banning the collection and sale of these fish in WA. The only fish that are meant to be for sale in this state have come from over east. The fish are caught here, sent over east, and then bought by shops here. It's stupid and doesn't help anyone or the fish.

You can find pygmy perch in any river or creek in the southern half of this state. North of the great dividing range is one species, and south is another species that looks almost identical. There are a couple of other pymgy perch in the south-west of WA too. Dave Morgan at Murdoch University has done research on them and reclassified them. There's a number of books on them and ANGFA WA members have some info about them.

If you want to collect some, get a bait trap from BigW or Kmart or a fishing store, put some dry fish pellets in it and drop it in the canning river. Wait 30 minutes then lift it up and carefully put the contents into a container of aerated river water. If you go south of Perth, you can pull over on the side of the road and drop a trap in there and get them. Same north up to GinGin.

There are different colour varieties and ones up by GinGin tend to have a gold sheen over a brown body. The Gardner River West? near Pemberton? had a stunning dark green sheen on black body. If you go to Walpole (400km south of Perth), there is a place called Fernhook Falls about 30km north of Walpole on the South-west Hwy. There are shallow pools along the side of the road, which are home to several species of pygmy perch, Galaxiellas and salamanderfish.

This link is for the Canning River near Araluen Botanic Park. You go along Croyden Rd and turn right down McNess Drive, and just before the bridge on the left hand side is a gravel area where you can park (or used to be able to park, been a few years since I was there). You can walk down to the river and put traps in there or follow the river upstream a few hundred meters and put it in a pool. In spring and summer there are snakes (dugites and tiger snakes) so be careful where you walk. You can also collect pygmy perch and other native fishes during autumn and winter. There are pygmy perch, galaxias occidentalis, Bostockia porosa (nightfish), Tandanus bostocki (catfish) and usually Gambusia.

A word of caution when you go down McNess Drive, do it slowly and carefully because it is a really tight curve and its downhill.

Araluen Botanic Park · 362 Croyden Rd, Roleystone WA 6111, Australia

âââââ · Botanical garden

www.google.com.au

---------------------

This link is for the South-west Hwy in Walpole. Beardmore Rd will take you to Fernhook Falls but the pools with fish in are all along the South-west Hwy in that area and you don't need to go to Fernhook Falls for the fish. However, Fernhook Falls is a really lovely spot to visit, have a picnic and photograph. The drawback is the 5km of corrugated peagravel on Beardmore Road you have to traverse to get to the falls. It's pretty unpleasant driving along that road but the falls are nice.

A word of caution, the pools along Beardmore Rd is where I found a decomposing skull in a plastic shopping bag. If you hop in the water, wear waders and have a bottle of alcohol to disinfect afterwards. And be wary of strangers, most are nice but some are serial killers.

Fernhook Falls · Beardmore Rd, North Walpole WA 6398, Australia

âââââ · Campground

www.google.com.au

That would be a good idea, but it would be difficult to collect them and I'm only a beginner. I could try collecting wild fish without being interfered by the local government. It could be difficult unless I might ask the government for permission. I just have to wait until I'm an adult.

 

[Colin_T]

Don't ask the government for permission. You will get the run around and be told no. They don't care if you want to save a species from extinction or just have some local fish in a pond to keep mozzies under control. The WA ag dept and Fisheries WA have a no collecting or taking of native anything policy and will threaten you with all sorts of things if you do. Just go into the hills and drop a bait trap in and wait 15-30 minutes. Then lift it and put the fish in a bucket.

These departments are the ones who stop people collecting Gambusia from waterways and selling them to shops as feeder fish. Instead the Gambusia are being left in the wild where they are wiping out native species and the government isn't doing a damn thing to stop it.

I have dealt with numerous government departments and what they don't know won't hurt them. If everyone followed their rules, there would be absolutely no information on any fish in this country and heaps of species would be extinct because of theirs and other gov department's stupidity.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Don't ask the government for permission. You will get the run around and be told no. They don't care if you want to save a species from extinction or just have some local fish in a pond to keep mozzies under control. The WA ag dept and Fisheries WA have a no collecting or taking of native anything policy and will threaten you with all sorts of things if you do. Just go into the hills and drop a bait trap in and wait 15-30 minutes. Then lift it and put the fish in a bucket.

These departments are the ones who stop people collecting Gambusia from waterways and selling them to shops as feeder fish. Instead the Gambusia are being left in the wild where they are wiping out native species and the government isn't doing a damn thing to stop it.

I have dealt with numerous government departments and what they don't know won't hurt them. If everyone followed their rules, there would be absolutely no information on any fish in this country and heaps of species would be extinct because of theirs and other gov department's stupidity.

Yes, I understand that. I thought the governments had said yes to getting natives. And @Colin_T, what's a nightfish (another WA native)? You did mention the scientific name of the fish a few times before. Have you got them before? And can they breed in captivity? Can you explain their unique behaviour in detail please?

 

[Seisage]

I cannot speak to the situation in WA, as I don't have any knowledge of how they, specifically, run their fish and wildlife departments, so this is more of a general PSA for those interested in collecting wild fish. I live in the U.S. and have worked with and around my state's F&W department, so I can speak to that. Restrictions are generally in place for a reason, even if they are not obvious. Where I live, and across the U.S., fish and wildlife management decisions are based on scientific surveys of populations. I myself have done some of these ecological surveys for the fish and wildlife department in my state. Direct population surveys are often expensive and time consuming, so the other way populations are kept track of is through surveys of how many organisms are caught/taken by people with hunting and fishing licenses or other permits.

I'll try to illustrate my point with an example. On the west coast of the U.S., there is a species of sea urchin—the purple urchin—which has exploded in population in the last decade or so. It's getting to the point where their population numbers are negatively impacting the density of some kelp forests. In California, there are even controlled culling programs for these urchins. But the key word here is "controlled". The public is becoming more and more aware of this urchin issue over time, which is good in many ways. However, if members of the public decide to do good by going out and smashing urchins themselves, that data will never get recorded. The fish and wildlife department will never know it happened and won't be able to take it into account when they make future culling plans. And, if enough people go out and do this, we could run into the opposite problem where there are now too few urchins, especially if people take or cull urchins in areas where they aren't overpopulated. It's the same philosophy behind why you still need a permit to hunt white-tailed deer in the U.S. even though they're also overpopulated. The fish and wildlife department needs to know what's happening to the population.

Now, those examples are not of species that are invasive, so I'll give one that is. An invasive we have in my area is the green crab. You still need a permit to take them, and you still have a daily catch limit. This limit was increased somewhat recently, but again, catch is regulated because fish and wildlife needs to know approximately how many are taken by individuals in order to inform their own removal efforts and conservation management decisions in general.

Data is king here, and if you catch things without getting a license or permit, that data will never exist. One person catching fish or smashing urchins may not impact the population in a meaningful way, but if enough people have that mentality, then population and conservation management decisions could be meaningfully skewed. Government entities are indeed often fraught with bureaucracy and red tape and poor decisions by higher-ups, and I can reasonably assure you that fish and wildlife department employees are frustrated by it too, but the solution is not to distrust them and go behind their backs.

I'm not here to get into an argument. I don't want that. I just want to lay out the reasoning behind fish and wildlife regulations, based on my experiences working with them in the U.S. I encourage anyone who wants to collect wild fish to look into licensing, which may cover species kept in home aquaria. If it doesn't, reach out to your local F&W departments. Some species may be completely unregulated and require no permits at all, others will. You might only know if you ask. Please be patient and kind, and understanding if they say "no, you can't collect". If you choose to ignore their decision, proceed with caution and at your own risk of penalty and fines.

 

[elephantnose3334]

I cannot speak to the situation in WA, as I don't have any knowledge of how they, specifically, run their fish and wildlife departments, so this is more of a general PSA for those interested in collecting wild fish. I live in the U.S. and have worked with and around my state's F&W department, so I can speak to that. Restrictions are generally in place for a reason, even if they are not obvious. Where I live, and across the U.S., fish and wildlife management decisions are based on scientific surveys of populations. I myself have done some of these ecological surveys for the fish and wildlife department in my state. Direct population surveys are often expensive and time consuming, so the other way populations are kept track of is through surveys of how many organisms are caught/taken by people with hunting and fishing licenses or other permits.

I'll try to illustrate my point with an example. On the west coast of the U.S., there is a species of sea urchin—the purple urchin—which has exploded in population in the last decade or so. It's getting to the point where their population numbers are negatively impacting the density of some kelp forests. In California, there are even controlled culling programs for these urchins. But the key word here is "controlled". The public is becoming more and more aware of this urchin issue over time, which is good in many ways. However, if members of the public decide to do good by going out and smashing urchins themselves, that data will never get recorded. The fish and wildlife department will never know it happened and won't be able to take it into account when they make future culling plans. And, if enough people go out and do this, we could run into the opposite problem where there are now too few urchins, especially if people take or cull urchins in areas where they aren't overpopulated. It's the same philosophy behind why you still need a permit to hunt white-tailed deer in the U.S. even though they're also overpopulated. The fish and wildlife department needs to know what's happening to the population.

Now, those examples are not of species that are invasive, so I'll give one that is. An invasive we have in my area is the green crab. You still need a permit to take them, and you still have a daily catch limit. This limit was increased somewhat recently, but again, catch is regulated because fish and wildlife needs to know approximately how many are taken by individuals in order to inform their own removal efforts and conservation management decisions in general.

Data is king here, and if you catch things without getting a license or permit, that data will never exist. One person catching fish or smashing urchins may not impact the population in a meaningful way, but if enough people have that mentality, then population and conservation management decisions could be meaningfully skewed. Government entities are indeed often fraught with bureaucracy and red tape and poor decisions by higher-ups, and I can reasonably assure you that fish and wildlife department employees are frustrated by it too, but the solution is not to distrust them and go behind their backs.

I'm not here to get into an argument. I don't want that. I just want to lay out the reasoning behind fish and wildlife regulations, based on my experiences working with them in the U.S. I encourage anyone who wants to collect wild fish to look into licensing, which may cover species kept in home aquaria. If it doesn't, reach out to your local F&W departments. Some species may be completely unregulated and require no permits at all, others will. You might only know if you ask. Please be patient and kind, and understanding if they say "no, you can't collect". If you choose to ignore their decision, proceed with caution and at your own risk of penalty and fines.

I understand it. Our local governments don't care about saving native fish from extinction, as Colin pointed out. The situation here is worse than any Fish and Wildlife departments in the US.

 

[Seisage]

I understand it. Our local governments don't care about saving native fish from extinction, as Colin pointed out. The situation here is worse than any Fish and Wildlife departments in the US.

That is unfortunate, and I'm sorry to hear it. I wish I knew more about the situation in WA so I could provide a more meaningful response to this issue.

One thing I will say is that I found at least one business that farms western pygmy perch in Perth. Assuming they are a valid business with all the appropriate licensing, then one could assume that at least some take of wild western pygmy perch is allowed. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be able to operate their business. That's my assumption, at least. Either way, even if they are lower quality fish, I would recommend sticking with captive-bred ones unless you can somehow get approval from fish and wildlife. That is what I would do, if it were me in this situation. Additionally, I saw that using bait traps is illegal in WA. It's understandable, since bait traps are indiscriminate and will catch many other animals, including turtles which can drown. This isn't an issue if you are attentive and collect your trap quickly, but not everyone is, so it's easier to make them illegal for everyone.

Because I don't have population data for the western pygmy perch and considering you say the WA government doesn't care much about conservation, my reason for advising against collecting these fish yourself is primarily so you don't run into the issue of fines or other legal consequences. It's very possible that no one will ever know, but you can run into a lot of trouble if someone does find out, and fines can be very expensive.

 

[elephantnose3334]

That is unfortunate, and I'm sorry to hear it. I wish I knew more about the situation in WA so I could provide a more meaningful response to this issue.

One thing I will say is that I found at least one business that farms western pygmy perch in Perth. Assuming they are a valid business with all the appropriate licensing, then one could assume that at least some take of wild western pygmy perch is allowed. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be able to operate their business. That's my assumption, at least. Either way, even if they are lower quality fish, I would recommend sticking with captive-bred ones unless you can somehow get approval from fish and wildlife. That is what I would do, if it were me in this situation. Additionally, I saw that using bait traps is illegal in WA. It's understandable, since bait traps are indiscriminate and will catch many other animals, including turtles which can drown. This won't be an issue if you are attentive and collect your trap quickly, but not everyone is, so it's easier to make them illegal for everyone.

Because I don't have population data for the western pygmy perch and considering you say the WA government doesn't care much about conservation, my reason for advising against collecting these fish yourself is primarily so you don't run into the issue of fines or other legal consequences. It's very possible that no one will ever know, but you can run into a lot of trouble if someone does find out, and fines can be very expensive.

There are a few pond shops that might sell western pygmy perch, including one in Cockburn (coh-burn). But the stock might not be clean and would easily be stressed out.

Here's the link to the Healthy Rivers website about the pygmy perch:

Western pygmy perch - Healthy Rivers

One of the most common and conspicuous fish species across the south west. It is a small (up to 80 mm, but much more commonly less than 60 mm) perch-like fish with mottled golden-brown colouration - and during mating season males will often display vibrant green, yellow and red colours on their...

rivers.dwer.wa.gov.au

 

[Seisage]

There are a few pond shops that might sell western pygmy perch, including one in Cockburn (coh-burn). But the stock might not be clean and would easily be stressed out.

Here's the link to the Healthy Rivers website about the pygmy perch:

Western pygmy perch - Healthy Rivers

One of the most common and conspicuous fish species across the south west. It is a small (up to 80 mm, but much more commonly less than 60 mm) perch-like fish with mottled golden-brown colouration - and during mating season males will often display vibrant green, yellow and red colours on their...

rivers.dwer.wa.gov.au

Thanks for the link, it's really interesting. They're very neat little fish. One thing that's interesting is that it says the western pygmy perch isn't listed as threatened. I wonder if they mean that it's not listed as threatened by the WA government, because IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) does list them as "vulnerable", meaning that scientific surveys have revealed concerns about their population numbers. IUCN is a non-governmental organization of conservation scientists.

This is often a problem in the U.S. too. Government bodies are often very slow to list species as threatened or endangered, even if there's a lot of data that supports it, because there are so many steps to getting a species legally protected. The government has to do their own research, and then there are periods where the public must be allowed to comment on the issue. I don't know what this process is like in WA, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's also long and arduous like it is in the U.S.

 

[Colin_T]

That link below is from the WA government and they get their info from Murdoch Uni, which is Dave Morgan and company. In his spare time, Dave travels the state surveying and collecting fishes like I used to do 30-40 years ago.

Western pygmy perch - Healthy Rivers

One of the most common and conspicuous fish species across the south west. It is a small (up to 80 mm, but much more commonly less than 60 mm) perch-like fish with mottled golden-brown colouration - and during mating season males will often display vibrant green, yellow and red colours on their...

rivers.dwer.wa.gov.au

My mum used to work for the Dept of Water and Rivers last century and she said they were terrible when it came to listening to outsiders and not waste your time talking to them about anything. She told us about how every time a new government came into power, they would change everything from stationary to computers. It cost tax payers millions of dollars just changing the stationary, not to mention renaming every department. She said the government and heads of these departments were shocking and spent too much time wasting money and not enough time actually doing the job that the department was designed for.

I have tried to deal with Fisheries and various gov departments over the years. They get a uniform and all of a sudden, these clerks from a department turn into megga cops, even though they have absolutely no power. But it doesn't stop them being mad with power.

eg: I was with a friend collecting some red clay for an aquarium. We got a 2 litre icecream bucket full and that was it. As we were walking back to the car this ranger comes up to us and asks what's in the bucket. We said some clay. He said put it back or he was going to charge us with mining in a national park. This guy was serious, he even made us scrape some clay off the bottom of our shoes. That clay would have washed down the stormwater drain and ended up wherever.

eg2: I was down in Albany in 2016 and ended up at the Dept of Fisheries. They had this 4 foot tank in the entry area and it was filthy and not maintained. It contained about 4 or 5 Galaxias occidentalis that had been confiscated from a pet shop because the shop didn't have paperwork showing the fish had come from over east. Galaxias occidentalis is native to Perth and the south-west and doesn't occur over east. But according to fisheries, the only Galaxias we can keep here must come from an eastern state's suppliers. The eastern state's wholesalers buy their fish from collectors like me and then sell them back to shops in WA. The same deal with the pygmy perch. It's stupid. Shops can't buy the fish locally because nobody is allowed to keep or breed them here, and the shop can only keep them if they come from a supplier over east. Now there might be a few breeders now but there wasn't back in 2016, at least according to Fisheries.

eg3: In the 1990s they discovered a new species of freshwater crayfish and it was a prehistoric species that had been around for hundreds of millions of years. It was called a hairy marron and there were only a few left. I was in ANGFA at the time and we were talking to fisheries and trying to get permission to collect some of these hairy marron for a breeding program. We were told no. Ten years later we tried again and again were told no. We asked what the government was doing about these things because they were going to become extinct within a short space of time. Eventually they said they were looking for a zoo to take some in for a breeding program. The Perth Zoo wasn't interested and no other places wanted anything to do with them. Meanwhile a few people in ANGFA were jumping up and down saying give us some. We never got any and I have no idea what is going on with those marron now. They are probably gone.

eg4: the salamanderfish from the south-west of WA lives in shallow pools along the side of the South-west Hwy and a few other roads down that way. The government decided to widen the roads and in doing so, covered half the ponds were the fish lived. These fish are endangered and are going to become extinct due to a drying climate because nobody can breed them in captivity and the government is covering their habitat with roads. The government knows these fish are down there but don't care, and I am not allowed to get a permit to collect any to try and breed them.

The people working at Fisheries WA and AQIS (quarantine) generally have no idea what they are dealing with. Back in the 90s I was working at a shop and we got freshwater pipefish in. We got other stuff too but these pipefish stood out. We had a whole tank of them. Another time we had a tank of black pacu. They were little 2 inch diameter fish and did not look like normal fish. These things looked like baby red belly piranha. Quarantine and fisheries both inspected the fish several times while they were in quarantine. One of the officers even commented on the fish looking cool. The fish were released for sale and put in the shop. A few weeks later fisheries and quarantine come barging into the shop threatening legal action for smuggling illegal fishes in. They saw the fish and released them from quarantine. The fish weren't on the noxious species list but also weren't on the legally allowed form. They fell into no-man's land and the government didn't know what to do. Eventually we showed them some books with the fish in and it had details about how big they get and what they eat, and we were allowed to keep them. But these officers had seen the fish several times before releasing them and didn't have a clue as to what they were.

In another shop I was talking to the quarantine officer and asked about a job. They said they don't hire anyone who knows about fish, birds or plants because they don't want those people smuggling those items in. Instead they hire people who don't know what to look for and don't know what anything is, and then wonder why there are heaps of illegal things in the state.

From what Seisage has said about the US departments, I would say they are doing a much better job than the ones here. The ones here literally turned their noses up at information I offered them for free in the form of collection data sheets, survey forms, and information on the captive care and breeding of a number of native species. There was also information about introduced species, plants and animals that had been poisoned and poached, etc. And they threatened to charge me with poaching native fauna because I had some fish at home that were breeding. I tried to help these departments to make new laws and stop wildlife smuggling and poisoning and they didn't care.

Last example is Fisheries WA who have a trout farm down in Pemberton in the sw of WA. They know the trout farm has Fish TB running through it, and they know trout eat the native fishes, but they continue to release trout into native waterways down south where they introduce and spread a serious disease, and the trout eat the native fishes and crustaceans, including the hairy marron that they are trying to save. There are scientists working for these departments and most of them are scratching their heads going why are we doing this. But the heads of the departments just keep doing it.

 

[Seisage]

The ones here literally turned their noses up at information I offered them for free in the form of collection data sheets, survey forms, and information on the captive care and breeding of a number of native species. I tried to help these departments to make new laws and stop wildlife smuggling and poisoning and they didn't care.

This is shocking... and frankly rather disappointing, as are all of your other examples. I'm sorry you have to deal with a government that doesn't seem to actually care about its native species. There must be at least a few fish and wildlife employees that are actually knowledgeable, but it surprises me that they deliberately hire people who have little to no knowledge of nature. That would be unheard of here in the U.S. Here, you can't even get the most basic seasonal fieldwork job at the state fish and wildlife department without at least some university education in biology or a related field. Perhaps some of the rangers don't have that requirement, but there is appropriate job training involved.

It's disappointing especially because Australia has so many threatened and endangered species and is so susceptible to invasives. I know these things tend to take a lot of time and effort to change, but I do really hope that someday, you get a more competent fish and wildlife department.

 

[elephantnose3334]

eg3: In the 1990s they discovered a new species of freshwater crayfish and it was a prehistoric species that had been around for hundreds of millions of years. It was called a hairy marron and there were only a few left. I was in ANGFA at the time and we were talking to fisheries and trying to get permission to collect some of these hairy marron for a breeding program. We were told no. Ten years later we tried again and again were told no. We asked what the government was doing about these things because they were going to become extinct within a short space of time. Eventually they said they were looking for a zoo to take some in for a breeding program. The Perth Zoo wasn't interested and no other places wanted anything to do with them. Meanwhile a few people in ANGFA were jumping up and down saying give us some. We never got any and I have no idea what is going on with those marron now. They are probably gone.

Does the Perth Zoo care about freshwater fish and other freshwater creatures or do they only care about exotic animals? How did the hairy marron evolve into what they are today? How does someone properly hold a hairy marron?

 

[Colin_T]

It's disappointing especially because Australia has so many threatened and endangered species and is so susceptible to invasives. I know these things tend to take a lot of time and effort to change, but I do really hope that someday, you get a more competent fish and wildlife department.

This has been going on for decades. Back in the 1980s I was breeding native finches and small parrots. I had been trying to get orange bellied parrots but wasn't allowed. The birds were considered threatened and the government was looking for people to captive breed these birds. I was putting my hand up saying gimme some and they didn't care. There were a number of people in bird clubs around the country that could have bred them and they would have done it for free just to keep the species alive. None of us were allowed to have any. About 10 years later they gave some to a private zoo that started breeding them but during that 10 year period, the number of wild birds crashed to about 100 individuals.

The Gouldian finch is another one. For over a hundred years the local aboriginals in the Kimberley were telling the government not to burn the bush when they were. The aboriginals used to burn areas of bush at certain times of the year and it worked for thousands of years. White man came along and started burning the bush when they wanted to, which was the wrong time of year. Gouldian finch numbers dropped because the fires destroyed the food source and the birds were put on the endangered species list. Again they were looking for people to breed the birds. I actually kept them and said I would love to get a number of the birds for breeding just to add to my bloodlines. No chance. Years went past and they eventually found a farmer up north who was willing to breed them on his property. Again the numbers of birds had dropped dramatically while they were stuffing about trying to find breeders and it shouldn't have happened because there were literally hundreds of finch breeders around the country who wanted to help.

Off topic but Australia currently has a major housing shortage and it's estimated that 10% of the population is now homeless. I knew there was a housing crisis in WA 20 years ago and wrote to the government saying there is a major housing crisis and we need public housing because people were waiting 10 years or more for public housing. The Dept of Housing says nobody waits more than a couple of years but to this date I have been waiting 23 years for public housing. The government didn't care. In 2017 Mark McGowan became the premier of WA and he knew there was a public housing crisis because I wrote to him about it in 2014, and he did nothing until after the pandemic started. By then it was too late.

Most of the information about Australian native fishes has come from people who go out and collect them and keep them at home, simply because they like the fish. There is virtually no information about native fishes that has come from government departments. It really is appalling, and you are bashing your head against a brick wall trying to get them to do anything positive.

Back in the 1970s and 80s I asked the Dept of Fisheries to put bag limits on fish that were being caught by recreational fishers. It didn't happen. Around the 90s they put some bag limits on fish but you could still take huge numbers of fish (20 of this and 30 of that, per person per day). Around the year 2000 they reduced the bag limits again and about 5 years later they did it again. A few years ago they put blanket bans on a lot of commercial fish species because there weren't any left.

We have the highest rate of species going extinct in the world and governments/ gov departments that take too much time to act and don't act on advice from people that know. If it wasn't for about 10 individuals who don't work for the government, there would be virtually nothing known about the salamanderfish. There were plenty of people telling the gov how to care and breed Gouldian finches but they weren't interested. There were people who had kept these birds for 30 years or more and knew everything about them but the gov wasn't interested.

 

[Colin_T]

Does the Perth Zoo care about freshwater fish and other freshwater creatures or do they only care about exotic animals? How did the hairy marron evolve into what they are today? How does someone properly hold a hairy marron?

Perth Zoo breeds the endangered Western Swamp Turtle but doesn't have much to do with fish.

There's virtually no information on the hairy marron as to its evolution, other than the smooth marron was an offshoot of the hairy marron and the smooth marron survived better.

To hold marron or any freshwater crayfish, use your fingers to grab them from above. You put your fingers on the sides of the carapace above the legs, near where it meets the tail. If you plan on holding them for a few minutes, hold them upside down.