native north american fish

[GaryE]

I would love to see zebrinus! Some of the darters, too - spectacular.

You have to check laws. Native fishkeeping is banned in some places - mostly ones where fishermen kept carting species into lakes where they weren't native. As usual, a few dumb people wreck things for the even fewer people interested in native fish...

You could have a very interesting hobby and some very beautiful fish in your tanks with just the species found in the US. We're a bit north and fish tend to be larger in cold, so we don't have the biodiversity people can see farther south on this continent.

 

[ClownLurch]

@finfayce you are going in the direction that is calling to me lately. Why would anyone in North America not want to try native fish just once ? I'm thinking of joining NANFA , the North American Native Fish Association. Go look at their website. I belong to the American Killifish Association and the last two issues of their quarterly journal feature the genus Fundulus. A third issue wraps that up soon. I bought a copy of the Peterson Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes of North America North of Mexico (2nd Edition) by Page and Burr. Amazing what we have in our own back yards ! The Peterson guide has a section on introduced cichlids and would you believe that there is a colony of white (pink) Convict Cichlids in Grand Teton National Park ? I would pass out if I saw them. They must be in a geothermal area. Anywho, I have a trip planned for pretty soon that will take me in pursuit of the elusive Plains Killifish (Fundulus zebrinus ) only 50 miles from where I live. If I find them I just might sell my heaters and go back to the wild.

Anything interesting in your Peterson guide about my Heterandria Formosa?

 

[Back in the fold]

@GaryE I'm really hoping that I do find the Fundulus zebrinus. I ran across a scholarly paper on the internet that claimed they had been collected at Pompeys Pillar ( of Lewis and Clark Expedition fame) on the Yellowstone River in 2011. This location is near the point that the Bighorn River flows into the Yellowstone . The Bighorn emerges from beneath Yellowtail Dam about 40 miles upstream. Bighorn Lake backs up behind the dam between the Pryor and Bighorn Mountains of south central Montana. Coming out of the dam this water stays about 45 degrees year round and the Bighorn River never ices up. We have not had hard winters or high runoff years in a long time so I am optimistic that my efforts will bear fruit. This is my only chance. Fundulus zebrinus is not found anywhere near here until much farther south near Casper Wyoming and into northern Colorado. The bulk of collections are in Kansas and Texas for this species. There are so many Fundulus species to be found in the southeastern United States and even up into New York along the Atlantic coast. Ohio, Kentucky, even Michigan. Many can be bred as they are plant spawners or do a type of into the substrate egg laying. Oh the fun that can be had ! Keeping and breeding our own native fish. Go on folks ! Get your hands and feet wet.

 

[Back in the fold]

Anything interesting in your Peterson guide about my Heterandria Formosa?

@ClownLurch The Peterson guide is mostly just a list of what's there. A catalogue of sorts but your H. formosa are listed .

 

[ClownLurch]

@ClownLurch The Peterson guide is mostly just a list of what's there. A catalogue of sorts but your H. formosa are listed .

Aaaah. Shame.

The biggest source of HF info on the internet I’ve found is written by a Portuguese breeder in English.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Very cool! Just in case you don't know, most sunfish are shoaling species. Yours is being so shy because it needs some buddies!

@Back in the fold I spent many years keeping native fish. What I learned is that most of the ones around here need more space and colder water than is really practical. They can live in a tank for a while, but don't really thrive long-term. I dream of a 250 gallon with a chiller, stocked with cutthroat trout and other natives. But I'll probably never do it.

I've heard of that colony in the Tetons. Some doofus dumped a bunch of tropicals in a hot spring, and I hear they've made quite a good thing of it. There is said to be a similar place over near Kirby, a thermal pond stocked with tropical fish. And the cooling pools at the Thermopolis hot springs have some GIGANTIC koi! We always stop and throw them a few pellets when we're over that way.

 

[Back in the fold]

@WhistlingBadger There's big natives and little natives and I totally hear you. A huge tank chilled with Trout would be awesome. If you're ever sick and need to come to a Billings hospital go to Billings Clinic (formerly Billings Deaconess) . They have a chilled cold water pool in the entry of the place that probably holds over 5000 gallons with trout. Whoever designed the thing knew his business. It looks straight out of the mountains. Then, if you want to see something sad go to the Billings Cabelas ( or is it called something else now ?) and see a Pallid Sturgeon , which is as Montana warm water as it gets, and see it in with Lake Trout and Walleye. The best native tank I ever saw was a huge tank back in the 1960's at Eastern Montana College that they kept in a greenhouse next to the science building. Nothing for aqua-scaping , no plants but duckweed and water pea soup green but more sunfish than you could count. My then young super sharp eyes could pick them out fine. To this day I'd love to have sunfish.

 

[finfayce]

I just moved to Canada's east coast, into a region with a fairly narrow range of smaller freshwater fish. When the glaciers retreated, natural barriers kept the usual fish groups from repopulating this region, so I won't be catching any darters (now that I have a place to keep them that would be perfect...).
I used to keep Etheostoma olmstedi and nigrans from a local stream in Montreal, and they were great fish. They suffered from warmth though - I could not provide the winter conditions they needed for their full life cycle, so I couldn't breed them. The same was true of the 6 inch red bellied dace I caught behind beaver dams - stunning fish that needed cold acid water.

In a few weeks when it warms up, I'm going fishing. Fundulus diaphanous is a widely distributed killie, and I kept and bred some in the old city. I saw some here with radically different looking coloration a few years ago, and I'm heading for that river with the proper permits once it warms up. I've also found some spots to catch the brackish Fundulus heteroclitus, the mummichog. Being able to visit the habitat means I can design tanks for them based on nature.

In this place, I have a possible cold room that will let the water drop down to the temps like to overwinter in, although I will have to cheat and give them a shorter winter. I'm hoping six weeks and managed light periods will fool them.

yes. the river fish like cool water. it’s so interesting to hear about other peoples’ native fish. my home state Wisconsin has rainbow darters- don’t remember exactly wher.

 

[finfayce]

Very cool! Just in case you don't know, most sunfish are shoaling species. Yours is being so shy because it needs some buddies!

@Back in the fold I spent many years keeping native fish. What I learned is that most of the ones around here need more space and colder water than is really practical. They can live in a tank for a while, but don't really thrive long-term. I dream of a 250 gallon with a chiller, stocked with cutthroat trout and other natives. But I'll probably never do it.

I've heard of that colony in the Tetons. Some doofus dumped a bunch of tropicals in a hot spring, and I hear they've made quite a good thing of it. There is said to be a similar place over near Kirby, a thermal pond stocked with tropical fish. And the cooling pools at the Thermopolis hot springs have some GIGANTIC koi! We always stop and throw them a few pellets when we're over that way.

wow amazing about the tropicals! usually dumping fish doesn’t end well.
where are the Thermopolis hot springs?
this state has Hot Springs. even became national park. my blue spotted sunfish is native to Florida waters. i’ve had her( him) for almost 3 years. unfortunately lost one to jumping out of the tank. there used to be a great company, Sachs, that sold native fish. the owner died and it is no more

 

[finfayce]

Love it love it love it.
Ive a Heterandria Formosa (little mozzy fish from the Carolinas) species tank on the go 60L and may soon be downgrading to a single tank which means they’ll be moved to my 120L. Breeding a lot and the 60L will soon be a bit crowded.
Will need to start selling some soon.

the h. formosa fish is a lot like the least darter. small. selling some? are you in US?
the state i live in has so few options for obtaining native fish. i would have to catch in the wild.

 

[finfayce]

I just moved to Canada's east coast, into a region with a fairly narrow range of smaller freshwater fish. When the glaciers retreated, natural barriers kept the usual fish groups from repopulating this region, so I won't be catching any darters (now that I have a place to keep them that would be perfect...).
I used to keep Etheostoma olmstedi and nigrans from a local stream in Montreal, and they were great fish. They suffered from warmth though - I could not provide the winter conditions they needed for their full life cycle, so I couldn't breed them. The same was true of the 6 inch red bellied dace I caught behind beaver dams - stunning fish that needed cold acid water.

In a few weeks when it warms up, I'm going fishing. Fundulus diaphanous is a widely distributed killie, and I kept and bred some in the old city. I saw some here with radically different looking coloration a few years ago, and I'm heading for that river with the proper permits once it warms up. I've also found some spots to catch the brackish Fundulus heteroclitus, the mummichog. Being able to visit the habitat means I can design tanks for them based on nature.

In this place, I have a possible cold room that will let the water drop down to the temps like to overwinter in, although I will have to cheat and give them a shorter winter. I'm hoping six weeks and managed light periods will fool them.

the fish you describe are beautiful.

I just moved to Canada's east coast, into a region with a fairly narrow range of smaller freshwater fish. When the glaciers retreated, natural barriers kept the usual fish groups from repopulating this region, so I won't be catching any darters (now that I have a place to keep them that would be perfect...).
I used to keep Etheostoma olmstedi and nigrans from a local stream in Montreal, and they were great fish. They suffered from warmth though - I could not provide the winter conditions they needed for their full life cycle, so I couldn't breed them. The same was true of the 6 inch red bellied dace I caught behind beaver dams - stunning fish that needed cold acid water.

In a few weeks when it warms up, I'm going fishing. Fundulus diaphanous is a widely distributed killie, and I kept and bred some in the old city. I saw some here with radically different looking coloration a few years ago, and I'm heading for that river with the proper permits once it warms up. I've also found some spots to catch the brackish Fundulus heteroclitus, the mummichog. Being able to visit the habitat means I can design tanks for them based on nature.

In this place, I have a possible cold room that will let the water drop down to the temps like to overwinter in, although I will have to cheat and give them a shorter winter. I'm hoping six weeks and managed light periods will fool them.

the fish you mention are beautiful!
the long name etheo …. looks somewhat like a female rainbow darter. i must be doing something wrong because my rainbows are colorful. or i received all females.

 

[finfayce]

@WhistlingBadger There's big natives and little natives and I totally hear you. A huge tank chilled with Trout would be awesome. If you're ever sick and need to come to a Billings hospital go to Billings Clinic (formerly Billings Deaconess) . They have a chilled cold water pool in the entry of the place that probably holds over 5000 gallons with trout. Whoever designed the thing knew his business. It looks straight out of the mountains. Then, if you want to see something sad go to the Billings Cabelas ( or is it called something else now ?) and see a Pallid Sturgeon , which is as Montana warm water as it gets, and see it in with Lake Trout and Walleye. The best native tank I ever saw was a huge tank back in the 1960's at Eastern Montana College that they kept in a greenhouse next to the science building. Nothing for aqua-scaping , no plants but duckweed and water pea soup green but more sunfish than you could count. My then young super sharp eyes could pick them out fine. To this day I'd love to have sunfish.

i agree. home back in Wisconsin there were pumpkin seeds, bluegills, and others like sunfish. if and when one of my aquariums becomes available- aka they all passed away- i would love to have a wisconsin sunfish.

 

[GaryE]

I caught rainbow darters in Ohio. If it's any help, the water they were in was much like a running tap = it was moving! They were in a series of pools carved out by a tiny waterfall, each one about 20 gallons, overflowing into the next one, and so on, down a steep hill. It was one of the most bubbling bubbling brooks I've seen.
So you may have all females, or they may need cool, oxygenated moving water.
The other downside to native darters is seasonal colours. They don't stay all lit up all year round, although now is when most of them kick the colours up a few notches. My olmstedi weren't top of the list for colours, but they were pretty for about 2 months after the thaw when the water had begun to warm. Once it reached about 20c, they turned the reds and burgundies off. In August, they weren't even pretty, though they remained interesting.

 

[finfayce]

I caught rainbow darters in Ohio. If it's any help, the water they were in was much like a running tap = it was moving! They were in a series of pools carved out by a tiny waterfall, each one about 20 gallons, overflowing into the next one, and so on, down a steep hill. It was one of the most bubbling bubbling brooks I've seen.
So you may have all females, or they may need cool, oxygenated moving water.
The other downside to native darters is seasonal colours. They don't stay all lit up all year round, although now is when most of them kick the colours up a few notches. My olmstedi weren't top of the list for colours, but they were pretty for about 2 months after the thaw when the water had begun to warm. Once it reached about 20c, they turned the reds and burgundies off. In August, they weren't even pretty, though they remained interesting.

thanks for the tips. i try to keep water cool, but when summer comes in this state- nothing stays cool. i did buy some circulation pumps to get movement in the tank

 

[Back in the fold]

As Columbo says - "just one more thing". There's a place I found on the Internet called Jonah's Aquarium. They have native fish for sale and have lots of information and pictures on their website.