mysterious deaths / abductions

[andyt_uk]

a couple of weeks ago i got 12 baby tiger barbs
last night i have 4 left
i have removed 2 dead ones, i can see another dead one but cant get to it
that leaves 5 missing presumed dead but where are they?

i also have a african dwarf frog in there

is he eating/attacking them?

 

[Phantom Thief]

Well andy,

If the tiger barb babies are smaller than the ADF, then, we rule out alien abduction, the need for mulder and scully, CIA with a grudge against it, then it should be the ADF.

Signing off,
P.T.

 

[smb]

I would say it's a great possibility that the ADF is eating them.

 

[Eelzor]

You said baby tigar barbs, must be pretty small then! I would bet on the ADF eating them.

 

[Losi]

Andy, did you quaretine the barbs before adding them to the tank??

 

[andyt_uk]

eelzor > they are about 2cm long so not v big at all
the frog is probably about 4cm nose to tail

apart from the frog, the tigers are all thats in there, i had been watching them at the lfs for about a week before i bought them, seemed healthy, but was prepared for a couple of losses imagining the smallest one or two may get bullied.
of the deaths, one was found caught up in some floating plants, the other was just floating about, and a third is caught between some large peices of gravel and cant quite get hm out yet
but that leaves 5 i cant find at all

i think the frog may be to blame will perhaps have to stock with larger fish that he cant bother too much

 

[Inchworm]

Hi andyt_uk

I don't think it's the frog.

I don't think a frog could eat something that's half its size because I don't think it's capable of biting off chunks. I believe they can only swallow things whole.

 

[Cian McLiam]

There is the possibility that the frog is actually an African Clawed Frog, these are a different and much more vicious beast that are banned in some states in America but not in the UK and Ireland as far as I know.
They are predators that should not be combined with any fish so its important to know which type you have:

African Dwarf Frog: Eyes at the side of the head, four 'fingers'

African Clawed Frog: Eyes at the top of the head, three claws.

Hope yours is a dwarf and not the clawed variety, for your sake and the fish!

Ken

 

[Inchworm]

There is the possibility that the frog is actually an African Clawed Frog, these are a different and much more vicious beast that are banned in some states in America but not in the UK and Ireland as far as I know.
They are predators that should not be combined with any fish so its important to know which type you have:

Hi Ken_g_w

I keep both kinds of frog and while it is true that the African Clawed Frog is a voracious eater, I really don't think that it could swallow something half its own size.

They have very large mouths and I know of an instance when grown one swallowed an adult cory, (not mine, thank goodness!!), but I just don't think it would be physically possible. In that case, the frog was many times the size of the cory.

 

[Cian McLiam]

Its the claws!! those dreadful claws... I have nightmares about them.....
oops sorry, nurse.. more pills please!

 

[andyt_uk]

I AM 99% Certain it is the dwarf frog and not a clawed one, i was very careful to check that out before i bought it, even checking an image on the web via my mobile phone (gadget freak) in the shop before i bought it.
there is a pic of him here
http/images.fotopic.net/?id=1684979&outx...ize=1&nostamp=1
this shows his belly, but can just make out his 'hands' his back is more of a speccled greyish colour and not the light colour of his belly, its a neon tetra swimming behind him to give an idea of size

another tiger was dead last night, leaving 3 alive out of 12, with 5 still not accounted for, although last night they appear to have white spot
water params seem fine but i have had problems with white spot in there before

although it looks nice, that biorb was damn expensive and the fish in there have always had problems, at least it triggered an interest with the wife to allow me to get the 50gl which is fully stocked and touch wood no problems worse than floating plants

 

[New Boy]

Andy,

I've seen those bi-orbs around and I'm not convinced about them. Two things worry me about them.

Firstly I believe they have some type of undergravel filter, I used to have UGF's but since I moved to external canisters I've found tanks far more stable and drastically reduced losses. Have you checked all of your water parameters? Especailly nitrate as i read that tiger barbs are particularly likely to suffer nitrate shock (or develop white spot as a result of high nitrate).

Secondly, as they are globe shaped the actual surface area isn't that large compared to a regular square tank. If your tank is 7.5 us gallons that's less than 30 litres - I think that would be too small for 12 tiger barbs even if they are babies...they're one of the fastest growing fish I've kept. There are some kits that you can get to test oxygen content.

Sorry if that doesn't help solve the strange disappearance and someone else may know a bit more science to suggest these concerns are unfounded but I would get some advice from the moderators before adding any more fish.

Hope the Trigon 190 is going ok by the way.

Cheers
Andy

 

[andyt_uk]

the biorb is actually 30l
being such a huge bowl the surface area is quite decent for the volume, though obviously not quite the same as that of a square tank
i like to work to 1cm surface area to 1cm fish
so 12 tigers was probly a bit tight but at the size they are now there is plenty of room
neon tetras have never done so well in there, though the last batch were quarantined in there and have been ok in the trigon
the tigers now also not doing well

the platty were fine, and still going strong in the trigon

the filter system is similar to an UGF but is a cartridge with a sponge and some carbon grains with an airstone in the middle with the air tube coming up the an inch or two below the surface of water, this is surrounded by some ceramic media

the water has always been fine, it cycled with the platty with no spikes and the fish are still happy (2nd batch if fry on way)

think i will strip it down, treat for ich, and get some larger fish in there, might try a betta again -- then again maybe not

 

[andyt_uk]

Andy,
..

Hope the Trigon 190 is going ok by the way.

Cheers
Andy

trigon is super thanks
no problems with the filter as i have seen a few complain of, but if santa is generous i may get an external ehiem in the new year..

replanted (again) last night so looks a bit better and have a brighter white bulb so doesnt look as blue now (also suspect the actinic marine blue bulb has faded very quickly)

got some cool fish in there too

wonder about adding more, but as everything is running so well may just stay as is...

 

[Cian McLiam]

I have seen the Bio-orbs but have not seen one set-up up close. About the surface area, by 'quite decent' what do you mean? The surface that is in contact with the air is the only one that counts so in a globe shape it would need to be exactly half full to have an equivalent surface area as a comparable volume rectangular tank. Any further up and you begin to lose drastic amounts of surface area.
How far up is the water level? I think the filter is using an airstream uplift for the UGF, does this break the surface or not?

Ken