My Sump Design

[rictheredneck]

hey guys i have designed a sump just want your opinins on it. this is working around the equipment i have and will not be drilling my tank or using an over flow box. its a bit of a backwards design so please dont laugh lol.

text size is alil small so you might want to click it to enlarge...

 

[robbhp]

i can see what you are trying to do, but my god i am glad that is not my sump. There are so many problems with it. i think you will find yourself play with the ball valve all the time. if i was you i would buy yourself an overflow box. it will save you from the impending flood sorry

 

[rictheredneck]

how do they work with the euro brace?

 

[idlefingers]

When the power's off, if you're just using a normal filter inlet, would the filter not syphon most of the water out of the display into the sump because of the outlet being below the inlet (in the sump)?

 

[rictheredneck]

When the power's off, if you're just using a normal filter inlet, would the filter not syphon most of the water out of the display into the sump because of the outlet being below the inlet (in the sump)?

yeah good point! right scrapping that lot lol thanx!

 

[AK77]

I don't think this design is feasible and its asking for trouble in the long run.

Firstly, If the Eheim is draining faster than the return pump then your sump will overflow. Secondly, if the return pump is more powerful than the Eheim, then your display tank will overflow. Achieving a balance would be fairly difficult. Not only that, if one or the other pump fails, you have a potential flood either way or the return pump running dry which will knacker it out.

With an alteration it could work. If you replaced the intake filter with an oveflow/syphon box, then neither your display tank or sump would overflow as its a closed unit. You could then position the intake filter of the eheim and create another closed unit by simply filtering the water in the sump out and back in again.

This is by far a much safer option. Alternatively you could get the tank drilled to drain into the sump but, trying to balance the water height by relying on two different pumps and no overflow/calfo is gonna end in tears before bedtime.

 

[idlefingers]

With an alteration it could work. If you replaced the intake filter with an oveflow/syphon box, then neither your display tank or sump would overflow as its a closed unit. You could then position the intake filter of the eheim and create another closed unit by simply filtering the water in the sump out and back in again.

The problem then is that if the overflow gets blocked, the sump gets emptied into the display tank unless the pump is stopped somehow.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think a sump was a closed system? that's why you have to compensate for what will happen when the power goes off - because the syphon doesn't stop when the pump's off like an ext. filter would?

 

[AK77]

Sorry, what I meant by "its closed", as in isolated. Its running on its own cycle. If he then just put the inlet and outlet strainers from the eheim in the sump, then that would become its own isolated system too, although it shared the water, neither would effect the other as they potentially could in the initial design here.

I'm glad he's scraped the idea though lol.

 

[rictheredneck]

thanx guys for the imput i kinda knew i would be dicing with death.

i had heared a lot of horror stories about an overflow box and i am still none the wiser on how they would work with the braces around the top of the tank. so i wasnt that keen on the idea.

i thought that once the ball valve was set on the return that would be it but obviously i have to listen to you guys and your experiance.

i also though that i had put some failsafes in and was aware that worst comes to worst i would have a knackred pump from running dry but didnt realise that the filter would act as a syphon! lol that could of been messy!

 

[rictheredneck]

right time for plan B! i'll just run it past you guys.

its a simple HOB fuge running close to the full length of my tank it will be filled from the retyrn leg of my eheim over flowinto the display tank - hopefully if the tank is well filled i wont get much of a dripping noise. went to B&Q & wikes today looking for some acylic and only found some 2mm thick stuff so gonna have a look around and try screwfix or ebay. its gonna be heated and formed and a couple of end caps glued on and routered flush.

sorry bout the scrappy drawing lol

 

[xxBarneyxx]

That looks like a good idea to me.

 

[SkiFletch]

That looks like a good idea to me.

Agreed, just make sure that outside wall of the refugium is higher than the tank glass

 

[norite]

I have a syphon system in my setup and its working...no floods.

I have a syphon into the sump, and a canister filter to suck the water out of the sump and push it back into the display tank. If you do your sums right, then you can set it up so that if the return pump fails, the syphon will stop working, IF it is positioned just below the water surface, and you've calculated the volume of water that would drain into the sump if this ever did happen.
I've found that water flow in and out of the sump is quite easy to set up...since the syphon is operating on air pressure, as the level of the water in the main tank drops, the flow into the sump starts to decrease, until it essentially matches the flow rate out of the sump, so you end up with a natural equilibrium. The water level does still vary though, by about (in my experience) a cm either way.

I am going to improve my design, by using a dedicated return pump instead of the canister, and use a small overflow/weir box in the main tank, into which I can put the syphon. This will mean that if the return pump stops, the water level will drop below the weir box, and the syphon will stop, so it will be guaranteed against flooding. I will also position the return line from the pump above the water's surface, so if it did fail, there's no chance of it acting as a syphon.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

Only thing I have been thinking of is if it is going along the whole back side it could end up having a fair amount of weight on it. I'm pretty sure the glass of the tank would be fine but you might want to double check first. Also make sure that the box is sitting "straight on" and not at an angle to avoid putting a "twisting" pressure on the glass (see crappy paint pictire below ).

I'm sure that it would not be heavy enough to be a problem though.

 

[rictheredneck]

Only thing I have been thinking of is if it is going along the whole back side it could end up having a fair amount of weight on it. I'm pretty sure the glass of the tank would be fine but you might want to double check first. Also make sure that the box is sitting "straight on" and not at an angle to avoid putting a "twisting" pressure on the glass (see crappy paint pictire below ).

I'm sure that it would not be heavy enough to be a problem though.

yeah i sussed that i guess it only gonna be a heavy as a few hob skimmers/filters cheers!