My Shell Dweller Journey

[Salam]

Just because... I got more pictures

This is the one I was talking about earlier on. S/he has buried their shell and guarding it at all times.

The outcast has found a shell (the outcast is funnily the most golden one, hence I can distinguish him/her)

And a nice juli picture, love how they swim

 

[Salam]

A little update

Fish are all happy and healthy. Although I am still a bit worried about the outcast, she seems to be taking random shells (whatever she gets before being pushed away) and I see her quite often with the julis.

So, we have done the first water change today to keep the nitrates down due to low planting. When we were trying to sort out the airline two of the little buggers (the suspected males) bit our fingers. I read that they would do it, but seriously, they have no fear of anything or anyone

Matt, we also went to Wharf Aquatics today. What a great day out! (With a McDonald's thrown in for lunch, he he he ) We were blown away. The fish house is as amazing as you described. And we were lucky as it was feeding time for the huge catfish (whatever it is) and it was awesome to watch. He went up as soon as the lady working there opened the lid, he knew it was dinner time.
While there I had a chat with one of the cichlids experts and he told me it would be ok to add leptosomas or nigripinnis at a later point, obviously once our occies and julis have paired up and we know who we are keeping.
We also loved the marine section, they were great on advice and we will get all our marine livestock from there once we set up the tank. It is a bit of a drive (over an hour), but so worth it, so they will see us quite often in the future. Thanks for recommending that place
Plus, even though I promised not to spend any money I ended up with two pieces of beautiful mopani wood and some plants

 

[gregswimm]

A little update

Fish are all happy and healthy. Although I am still a bit worried about the outcast, she seems to be taking random shells (whatever she gets before being pushed away) and I see her quite often with the julis.

So, we have done the first water change today to keep the nitrates down due to low planting. When we were trying to sort out the airline two of the little buggers (the suspected males) bit our fingers. I read that they would do it, but seriously, they have no fear of anything or anyone

Get a few more shells for that guy and place them as far away from the rest as you can, try the corners or get a flat rock and place it on its side and try and make that guy a little safe haven in a corner. You could move some unused shells (unused shells should be getting buried), but I would just get a few more, can;t go wrong with more.

 

[Salam]

I have bad news. The outcast is dead and I was sadly there to witness her dying. Previously I had put her an unused shell at the left hand end of the tank, just in front of the rock area. I saw her going into that shell a few times, other times she was still in the rock area. The julis didn't mind her, but obviously it wasn't right and she was frightened of the other occies.

When it was feeding time she came out trying to eat with the others. As soon as she emerged from the rock area three of them attacked her and pushed her around. She then swirled around, swam sideways, upside down - you know, not having any balance and energy anymore. And that was it. She landed on the sand, tried getting up again, but just couldn't. Poor girl had probably become so weak from not eating, stress and being pushed around. She died very quickly, I didn't even get a chance to react, put her in a trap or anything. RIP little fish

 

[Lufbramatt]

Oh dear Sorry about that. I lost a julie in the same way- and that was in a much bigger tank too- I'm sure the other fish know that theres something not right with other ones sometimes, at least you know that you're left with the strongest ones. I think it's just something to be expected with fish like this that are fairly aggressive and territorial- despite best made plans etc sometimes things don't go right, and it's just part of learning about how to keep these wonderful fish. They look great though, I'll have to get some occies one day!

 

[gregswimm]

Ohh man! Im so sorry . Unfortunately when the fish is not allowed to eat then it is time to take them out . Every species is slightly dfferent and within each species each fish has it's own personality. Unfortunately I can only advise you on what I have learned from keeping multis and ornatipinnis. I should have known that the fish should have been removed but moving a shell or 2 generally works with my fish, I feel horrible that I may have mislead you

For all its worth, there is a link in my signature titled "Awesome info on shell dwellers", if you can decipher the scientific mumbo-jubo; it is an incredible resource.

There are also 2 forums I am members of that I can advise you to join that will put you in contact with people much more experienced in these fish than even I.
cichlid forums
shell dwellers.com (not the most active forum, but most of the people there know their stuff)

 

[Salam]

No worries, it's nobody's fault, Greg. As Matt says, the weakest was taken out. Survival of the fittest. The one that died seemed weak from the beginning, so it was bound to happen. Even if I had returned her to the shop, she would have probably ended up in another tank and the same would have happened to her there.

The five remaining ones seem fine. Two are next to each other at all times, I thought it was too early for them to pair up? Don't know, but the aggression has gone down since the outcast has died.

I was looking at sexing them yesterday and from what I gather I would guess that I have two females and three males left, which is obviously not a great ration. But the two females are with two males in the same area, one can hope they pair up and the remaining male (the bully on the right hand side) will be returned in time. But will wait and see.

Have come across those forums already, but if I also oined them I'd have no life left Will have a read though.

 

[gregswimm]

See if you can find any info on venting the fish. I haven't had much luck, but I bet you can find some good venting info on google scholar. Those scientists are sometimes obsessed with genitalia

 

[gregswimm]

Hey hey hey, look what i found

Fish Sticks

edit: AND also this more

 

[Lufbramatt]

hehe good luck getting shellies out of the tank if there's shells in there!

 

[Salam]

Eeek! No way I am going to try and pick them out to look at their erm... bottom side I shall just wait and see

 

[gregswimm]

hehe good luck getting shellies out of the tank if there's shells in there!

I have a perfect trick. You get a long thin wood stick or 3 and poke one near the opening of it's shell. They come out and attack the stick. Then you can use the stick to block the opening of the shell by sticking it in the sand. Repeat with a few more sticks then gently nudge the shellie with the stick and net him out . Works well with L.ornatipinnis as they bury the shells on its side and will readily chew/maul on a wooden stick lol.

 

[Salam]

HELP! Something is wrong and I don't know what I can do. Two more occies have died, I have just found them dead under the rockwork. They were fine yesterday and now they are dead

So, there is three left. I watched them and the one on the right hand side seems perfectly fine. The one on the left hand side seems fine, but looks a bit lethargic. And the third one I am very worried about, when I went to feed them he was sticking near the surface by the heater. Totally unnatural behaviour. For feeding time he hid behind the rocks in the middle. He also looks darker than the other two, like black coming through his golden colouring. Checked the water, everything is perfect. We did a 30% water change two days ago, added Seachem Prime, just a normal water change as always. What on earth is killing them? I have three left, I don't want to lose any more. Julis seem fine, although hiding more in the rocks, but I assume that is just normal.

 

[gregswimm]

You have 0-ammonia 0-nitrites? What are your nitrates at? Whats the temp? Do the fish gasp for air or show any signs of not being healthy?

Ususaly when they stick to the surface something is either attacking them or they aren't getting enough air (either lack of tank oxygen or disease). Sit still and watch the tank for 30 min or so and see whats going on. Try and scare that guy back down to the ground before you start watching. Also do you have much surface movement? If you don't have an air stone I suggest getting one.
My guess ie either lack of oxygen or another fish has started to spawn and killed the other fish because they were unable to get out of the way. Did the dead fish have all their parts on them (no missing fins/big chunks taken out of the fins)?


Edit:
Also where did you get your substrata from and what type of rock is that?

Edit #2:


It does sound like someone has paired and started to spawn, and the other fish could not get out of the way. If you still have the dead fish I would like to see pics. And pics of the guy one the top would be good also.


If it is the julies that are being aggressive, then you should move the rock to one end of the tank. This will half their territory (as they will only be defending one side instead of 2).

 

[Salam]

Thanks, Gregg, to answer your questions:

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40, ph 8. I know Nitrate is a little high but due to the low planting in a tang tank that is bound to happen. I got moss balls and a floating plant in at the moment.

There is an airstone, so they should have enough oxygen.

Substrate is playsand, very thoroughly washed. Rocks are lava rock from a good local shop.

The one on the top is not gasping, actually it looks like he is relaxing there, but this is such an unnatural behaviour. When he I pushed him down he was with the very happy looking one on the right hand side which I assume is a female. Could it be that they spawned and he is just staying out of the way??? They are both in shells on the right hand side.

I can take a picture of the darker looking one who hangs out by the surface, the dead ones I have disposed of. Because I'm a bit squeamish I didn't inspect them, sorry. Maybe I should have. But from the quick glance I took they looked fine. I just hope it's not some kind of parasite in them, then I would be very upset with the LFS.

The julis are very calm. When I turn the evening lights on they come out of their rocks and patrol the tank, but they leave the occies alone and vice versa.

Will get pictures later and be back.