My puffers are in attack mode

[Acclaimed]

I bought some really tiny puffers from Petsmart yesterday and they have now been in my tank just over 24 hours. They didn't react to dried tubifex. I was getting worried because I heard they are moderately tough to keep, I changed a bit of the water today and that ment they had to acclimate themselves AGAIN to my water. The feeding was bothering me so I went back to Petsmart after my research and by hearing from some of you guys that snails work well. I bought some frozen mysis and they gave me some tiny snails. I introduced the shirmp and they just kind of looked at it. Then I put about a dozen snails in and as they started to move the puffers started following them, floating all sorts of ways to look at them. I loved it! Finally a fish with personality. I had dripped some shrimp juice in the water for them to smell and hopefully spark thier killer instinct. They started nipping at the snails and shrimp. Finally. Ok here are my questions.


They are either too small, or don't know they can crack the snails shells. Ive got 4 dead snails on the floor now and I don't want them to rot, will other snails take care of this or should I scoop them out?

Admittedly I dropped too many shirmp into the tank at first. The puffers have come across some of it, but I don't want that to rot either. Will the snails eat some of it or should I scoop that too?

After watching how they react to a moving object I REALLY think they would benefit from live brine shirmp. They don't have to work for that meal and they can stalk it. Also I get to watch all the puffery goodness. Heh

 

[samsung-401]

Firts of all it would be nice to know hwt kind of puffer they are. Second I would not worry about the snails, most puffers can eat snails with eas. But if they do rot however remove them. Hope that helps.

 

[TorPeteO]

The puffers sound like Dwarf Puffers (Carinotetraodon Travancoricus). They will eat the snails by sucking them right out of their shells. I haven't had any rotting, but I've heard others have, so you may want to remove the empty shells to avoid the risk.

Do you have a gravel vacuum? You should vacuum up any of the uneaten food before it begins to decompose and pollute the tank.

I'm sure live brine shrimp would be good for them, most DPs also like frozen or live bloodworms.

Now I have some questions for you;

Are you a total beginner? Are you familiar with water dechlorination and tank cycling? These are integral to the success of your fish. If you do not, please ask or consult the myriad references available on this site.

How many puffers did you buy? What size tank are they in? What kind of tank decorations have you got in there? Are there any tankmates aside from the puffers? Do you have a water testing kit? If so, how are your levels?

Sorry if some of these questions are elementary, but I'm not sure if you're a beginner, novice, intermediate, or whatever.

Most of all, enjoy your puffers!

 

[SirMinion]

Don't worry about the snails being too big, if the puffers can't crack the shell, then they'll just suck them out of the shell instead. Always remove the shells afterwards.

Be carefull about the uneaten food, puffers are VERY sensitive to water quality.

Try frozen or live bloodworm, most puffers love it.

In my experiance, puffers aren't interested in dried foods. I think they like their food to be juicy!

<edit> Gah! TorPeteO beat me to it!

 

[MAM]

in addition to what the minion said, many puffers prefer food thats "moving". i get around this by either feeding live foods (brine shrimp for example), or letting the block of frozen food thaw in water (usually bloodworm or brine shrimp), then dumping it over an airstone so it "moves". my puffers seem to prefer to "hunt" their food.

 

[Acclaimed]

Yes they are Dwarfs. Im not a total novice. Ive had fish since I was a kid, but Im still learning. Its been a long time since Ive had fish and I was so tired of regular community fish. Im familiar with basic cycling, i.e. letting the water filter for a week or so to build bacteria and balance itself. This tank was cycled for for a week and a half. My PH when I introduced them was about 7.5, after changing the water it is still in the 7.4-7.6 area. From what I've read DP's can take 7.0-8.0. But yeah, I don't want to change it fast. Where have you guys found the best PH for them? Ive never tested for Nitrite/trate or ammonia.
BTW its a 30 gallon and there are only 4 DP's in it about 3/4" long. They are noobs. Decore includes about 10 or so plastic plants and slate.

I dont think they are getting all the meat out of the shells, they just go after the head, the snail withdraws into the shell and I assume is dead. They puffers keep going back to old shells though waiting for the snails to come back out. I thought about crushing the dead ones. Should I do that? I do have a vac and will prolly use it to suck up the waste as you said. About how long does it take for food to rot? Also can I throw in zuccini? I know since these guys are carnivores they won't get much from vegetables, but Im still curious.

 

[LadyMinion]

Just a quick question about the cycling - did you use fish or add ammonia regularly?

It is quite common for puffers to just bite the head off of a snail and leave the rest. The snail is dead and the puffers usually lose interest then.

Uneaten food should be removed as soon as it appears that it won't be eaten. This is usually within half an hour of putting it in. The longer you leave the uneaten food in the tank, the more it will break down and pollute the water.

Your puffers probably won't show an ounce of interest in the zucchini or any other vegetable. They like meaty foods.

You have a good tank size for your puffers and your Ph sounds fine. I would heartily recommend getting a test kit that checks for ammonia/nitrItes and nitrAtes though - it can help diagnose water probs in an emergency.

 

[Acclaimed]

I didnt cycle with fish or ammoina. You mentioning it is the first I have thought about it in a long while. I dont think I ever have done that, but I have heard people telling me to do it before.

 

[Jenny514b]

Okay, Since you didnt have any fish in your tank, or add ammonia to your tank, it isnt cycled. Running an empty tank for a week and a half doesnt cycle a tank. And as your puffers produce more ammonia (waste) your tank is going to start cycling with them in there, and that is not a good thing at all, and if you dont put them in a more stable tank, they will most likely die.
When you cycle a tank you are waiting for micro organism's to colonize in your filter or bio wheel. What do you have in your tank filter wise? Probably a bio wheel, which i like cuz you never have to replace them like filters, so you never have to go through mini cycles. If you dont have a wheel, and have filters you probably have 2 of them to accommodate the 30 gal tank. When you replace your filters only replace one at a time, so your not throwing out all your good bacteria, which is what im going to tell you about now:
Fish produce ammonia (waste). There are certain kinds of bacteria that eat ammonia as food. These good bacteria (Bio-bugs) will colonize in your filter when there is enough ammonia in your water long enough. Thats why you need those test strips. You will see your ammonia levels go way up, and you should let it get pretty high, but if it's in the lethal zone you should do a 30% water change. Keep testing every day. Eventually your ammonia eating bugs will come and start eating away your ammonia, but then they produce waste (as all living things do). They're waste is Nitrates (or is it nitrites?-i cant remember). Keep testing your water every day and when the nitrates get in the lethal zone do a 30% water change. Eventually more bio-bugs will come and eat the nitrates, but then they'll give off nitrites. Which is what you get rid of by doing water changes. But first you'll need what is called a good cycling fish. I used white cloud, but they're are more kinds (not puffers!) out there, like i think zebra danios. These fish are very hardy and can handle the danger zones that cycling involves. This fish will produce your ammonia that will start the process. It can also take awhile, so you will need to be patient. My 44 gal took 3 weeks, but it varys. There are also ways of doing fishless cycling by adding the ammonia your seld, but Im not familiar enough to give details on that. If you want an awsome book that is very descriptive about cycling, go to the library and check out "The Complete Guide to Aquariums" . You'll know its the right book if you see artificial sticky notes on the pages-the author used these to put out bits of information. Hope this has helped you understand what cycling really means. If you tank isnt cycled its not safe for your puffers, go see if your library has this book and go get you some test strips!
Happy cycling
p.s. When your ammonia, nitrates, and nitrite all read zero, your tank is cycled. Good luck!

 

[Puffer_freak]

Was that 3 to 4 inches or three quatre inches that you were talking about. Wow, thats a good sized tank you have there! Ummm...take the puffers out of your tank to cycle. Take them back...or I know that some good lfs keep fish for you for a while, just while you haven't the time to do thing for yourself.

Make sure your tank is cycled and put them back in. Good luck

 

[SirMinion]

Eventually more bio-bugs will come and eat the nitrates, but then they'll give off nitrites. Which is what you get rid of by doing water changes.

Yep you got it the wrong way around!

Ammonia ->NitrItes -> NitrAtes.

But otherwise, good advice!

 

[Acclaimed]

Hmm. News to me. I guess when I was younger I only bad part of it down and now it seems I still do. Im using a 125 biowheel. So im looking for all three to be 0. I'll get some tests today while im out. So if fish start to die because they can't take the changes, what should I be looking for? I don't have any other place to put them and I really don't want to take them back because going from their old tank, to mine, and back again seems a little much for juv. fish. Nobody in the tank is acting lathargic, the only thing Ive noticed about one is that he has a lot of color loss. Even the black spots are faded. They are eating well. So if there is a symptom I should be looking for give me a heads up.

To whoever asked, they are .75 inches long

Ive always heard snails cause ammonia to raise and since Im feeding them a lot of snails, how can I balance that out?

 

[LadyMinion]

Yep, those puffers need to come out and the tank needs to be properly cycled before you can put them back in again.

The whole point of cycling is to get those beneficial bacteria up and running. If you didn't add a source of ammonia to the tank during that first week and a half, no bacteria will grow and nothing will change. Unfortunately, your puffers are now the ones producing the initial ammonia spike and they cannot tolerate that situation.

Some fish are quite hardy and can survive the cycling process, which is probably why you never had to do it before. But this always causes a high level of stress and the risk of losing your fish is very likely.

 

[LadyMinion]

Hmm. News to me. I guess when I was younger I only bad part of it down and now it seems I still do. So im looking for all three to be 0. I'll get some tests today while im out. So if fish start to die because they can't take the changes, what should I be looking for? I really don't want to take them back because going from their old tank, to mine, and back again seems a little much for juv. fish. Nobody in the tank is acting lathargic, the only thing Ive noticed about one is that he has a lot of color loss. Even the black spots are faded. They are eating well. So if there is a symptom I should be looking for give me a heads up.

To whoever asked, they are .75 inches long

Ive always heard snails cause ammonia raise and since Im feeding them a lot of snails, how can I balance that out?

Yes, Ammonia and NitrItes should be 0, NitrAtes can be around 5-10ppm as 0 is not always possible.

It would be less stressful for your puffers to go back to the shop than to put them through cycling, believe me.

During cycling, you need to do regular water changes to keep the toxicity levels down. This is where your test kit comes in extremely useful - check the levels at least once a day. When the test indicates a sudden rise in toxicity, do a large water change immediately. Gradually, enough bacteria will grow and the levels will drop as dramatically as they rose.

 

[Acclaimed]

Since I need to step backwards, whats the proper way to add water? How long should it sit/be treated before its added? Like whoever said it, Ive always had fish that can take the changes and I guess thats why im sick of community fish.