My Problem Tank Diary

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi all,
Firstly, i want to thank all of you that have posted on my other threads, helping me with issues along the way.....unfortunately, it seems when i fix one issue, another rears its head and causes havoc on my tank. So i figured by doing a diary of my tank and my processes (cleaning tank etc), then others can tell me what i may be doing wrong, as well as ideas which can make my tank less of a hassle.

I will go through my tank, its inhabitants, water paremeters, concerns, and then my latest test results. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.

TANK INFORMATIONSunsun 146ltr tank, which contains the following hardware:

1 x Inbuilt filter with spray bar, the filter drains the water out, then to the top of the tank where it is sprayed out onto my media filter, which then lets the water flow down to the tank. The media filter is std wool material, i also have 2 x pads which i think contain potassium??? which was to help get rid of my algae issues.

1 x In-tank heater, its decent size and i have the tank currently set to 23 degrees celcius.

1 x In-tank air pump/filter - this has 2 x sponges on the end, which seems to suck up water, and then air is pumped back out at the top of the water, which creates bubbles.

1 x Double bar lighting inbuilt into the hood, seems to be the right ones as they came with the tank.

TANK INHABITANTS

FISH
1 x clown loach (small, and soon to be rehomed to a tank with lots of loach friends)
2 x angel fish (one large, one small)
2 x spotted corys
4 x plattys
3 x guppies
4 x neon tetra's
2 x glowlight tetra's

PLANTS/WOOD
2 x Amazon swords
1 x some other plant that looks prickly but it isn't. (sorry for lack of name)
1 x imported mangrove root, which was boiled and aged for a couple of months before being placed in the tank.

The substrate is your standard gravel. natural look.


WATER PARAMETERS

Tap water
Ammonia: 0
PH: 6.4
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
gH Degree: 1 degree
kH Degree: 1 degree

PROCEDURES

I do water changes every second week, usually taking out between 35 - 50 litres per change. I syphon the gravel which removes all the debris, and then once the water levels are low, i will then use a sponge which i bought from pet store to scrape any green hair algae off the glass and just a bit of general housekeeping e.g. Using the net to remove any plant which may be broken from the rest of the plant.

When refilling the tank, i use the hose from my backyard which reaches the tank. I angle it so the water flow isn't too intense, and once filled, i then put the following items into the tank:

1 x tropical salts, following the instructions as to how much i should put in. Usually put in 3 teaspoons.
1 x amount of biotopal & another item. One treats the tap water, the other does something else like cleaning out the bad backteria etc?
3 x correct pH 7.0 tablets, to instruction, so that i can achieve a neutral ph (have had massive ph issues)
1 x amount of plant liquid food as per instruction
1 x bioclear as per instructions



TANK AT THE MOMENT

Ok so i have just completed a water change 24 hours ago, and did tests today, got the following results:

pH: 6.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Between 0 and <25
Gh degree: 4
Kh degree: 3

The fish seem perfectly happy and in good colour, and i have fed them twice today, not too much though.

Because this is my first test since the water change, i don't expect too much feedback with regards to that, as only after a few tests, can you all see how my tank goes spacko on me.

The issues i have had previously are as follows:

pH has been known to go as high as 7.4, then drop to as low as 6.0 (as discussed, could be a kH issue, or possibly something to do with the wood? as i only seemed to have this problem once i introduced the wood)

Lack of nitrate, at times my nitrate has been 0, i was under the impression that there needs to be some small amount in the tank?

Green hair algae seems to be in my tank, its not uncontrollable as it seems to be able to be scraped off the glass with my magnetic cleaner, however i would like to reduced it a little more, i used some media filter pads with i think potassium which is meant to reduce this?

Snails, they have turned up, tiny white ones, however if i ever see any, i just scrape em to the bottom and mr Clown loach gobbles them up.

Plants are brown, well have been quick brown which holes (could be snails?) but since last water change and adding some of the food flourish, they have seemed to green up a little.

Anyways that seems to be all my concerns etc. I just find once i fix one problem, something else happens so i want to find a way i can make my tank a little less demanding in regards to having to add chemicals etc etc which i really don't like doing if its going to make the fish get sick.

Any help is welcome, i will post my test results from the next week, so that you can see the developments from a water change, over the 2 week period.

Thanks in advance, sorry about the essay but i find when i write a post, ppl ask for more info.

Owen

 

[Geoff1991]

Well, only problem i can see are the pH tablets. I would stay well away from those.

Edit:

Actually, im not sure you should be adding salt. Or the stuff that "removes bad bacteria"

Whats the bioclear stuff?

The only stuff i would add is dechlorinater and plant ferts.

I think you can use seashells or crushed coral or something to raise your pH in a much safer way.

 

[K-Holed]

pH has been known to go as high as 7.4, then drop to as low as 6.0 (as discussed, could be a kH issue, or possibly something to do with the wood? as i only seemed to have this problem once i introduced the wood)

I think you might have answered your own question there. Many woods do lower the pH of the water. If you have a low KH and you're adding tablets to raise the pH, the effect of the wood might just be swinging it all the way back again.

Kind regards

Jimi

 

[owen.h.lewis]

Thanks geoff and jimi.

Will the wood eventually stop my ph lowering?

The salts I use are the proper tropical ones that harden the water, otherwise my gh degree would be 1 due to my tap water being soft.

Bioclear and the other thing just prevent disease and clear up the water of some nasties, bacteria was probably a misguided word to use.

I have coral that I could use to raise ph and kh but I'm going to see how my testing over the week goes then I will start using ideas from this thread that you all post.

Other than that does my tank look alright in terms of parameters?

 

[drobbyb]

0 in nitrates? How long has the tank been cycled? There should always be nitrates in a healthy tank. They are the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle, and unless you have a fully planted tank, you should never see a zero reading.

 

[owen.h.lewis]

0 in nitrates? How long has the tank been cycled? There should always be nitrates in a healthy tank. They are the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle, and unless you have a fully planted tank, you should never see a zero reading.

I think the reading was closer to 0 but between 0 and <25.

My tank has 3 x plants but by no means is it fully planted.

The tank has been cycled for around 5 months. I hope i haven't reset the cycle process as my fishies won't like that.

Will be giving updated test results for my water parameters when i get home today.

 

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi all,
Below is the results for DAY 2 since my water change:

pH: 6.7
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
gH degree: 4
kH degree: 4


All readings seem fine, except for the lack of Nitrate......i have always had nitrate present in my tank and it seems to not be in here. Could it be my testing kit? Although i vaguely remember a Nitrate reading from it before.

Help is appreciated as if my tank is going to go through a cycle, i need to be prepared to make sure i don't lose any fish. Also what are the negative implications of not having any Nitrate present?

Cheers

 

[Geoff1991]

What test kit are you using?

 

[owen.h.lewis]

What test kit are you using?

Not sure of the brand, but it wasn't cheap.

I do remember nitrates being present when testing with this one so i don't think that it's the test kit.


Hopefully some nitrates show up, and everything else stays the same and my tank is A OK

 

[waterdrop]

0 in nitrates? How long has the tank been cycled? There should always be nitrates in a healthy tank. They are the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle, and unless you have a fully planted tank, you should never see a zero reading.

Yes, I agree Robby, any number of things here seem odd.

Am I just misunderstanding about the filter media? Are there only polyfloss pads? Are there no sponges or ceramics to serve as biomedia?

I also do not understand about the salt. A need for salt is exceedingly rare. One of its few uses is for treatment of ich/white-spot.

Its important for us to know the manufacturer/model of the test kit and its expiration info. Normally one thinks quite a bit about what kit one will choose. But it does sound like you've got a liquid kit, right?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[owen.h.lewis]

0 in nitrates? How long has the tank been cycled? There should always be nitrates in a healthy tank. They are the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle, and unless you have a fully planted tank, you should never see a zero reading.

Yes, I agree Robby, any number of things here seem odd.

Am I just misunderstanding about the filter media? Are there only polyfloss pads? Are there no sponges or ceramics to serve as biomedia?

I also do not understand about the salt. A need for salt is exceedingly rare. One of its few uses is for treatment of ich/white-spot.

Its important for us to know the manufacturer/model of the test kit and its expiration info. Normally one thinks quite a bit about what kit one will choose. But it does sound like you've got a liquid kit, right?

~~waterdrop~~

Hi Waterdrop,
With regards to the media filter, i have a spoge, which then has the polyfloss pad on top of that, and in addition i also have the filter wool. All underneath the spray bar. I also have bioballs in the filter.

The salts that i used are proper tropical salts, whcih raise the hardness and ph slightly, they are mean't to be used when i do a water change, to keep things normal. I by no means use table salt, or any other salts, this seems to be stock standard hardening salts that the lfs told me to use.

I have the liquid testing kit, i will look at the expiry date, but only purchased it 3 - 4 months ago.

I am worried about no nitrates, but atm my fish seem happy with no other problems for ph ammonia etc etc.

Will most likely get the local pet shop to test my water for nitrates, just to be sure.

 

[Geoff1991]

0 in nitrates? How long has the tank been cycled? There should always be nitrates in a healthy tank. They are the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle, and unless you have a fully planted tank, you should never see a zero reading.

Yes, I agree Robby, any number of things here seem odd.

Am I just misunderstanding about the filter media? Are there only polyfloss pads? Are there no sponges or ceramics to serve as biomedia?

I also do not understand about the salt. A need for salt is exceedingly rare. One of its few uses is for treatment of ich/white-spot.

Its important for us to know the manufacturer/model of the test kit and its expiration info. Normally one thinks quite a bit about what kit one will choose. But it does sound like you've got a liquid kit, right?

~~waterdrop~~

Hi Waterdrop,
With regards to the media filter, i have a spoge, which then has the polyfloss pad on top of that, and in addition i also have the filter wool. All underneath the spray bar. I also have bioballs in the filter.

The salts that i used are proper tropical salts, whcih raise the hardness and ph slightly, they are mean't to be used when i do a water change, to keep things normal. I by no means use table salt, or any other salts, this seems to be stock standard hardening salts that the lfs told me to use.

I have the liquid testing kit, i will look at the expiry date, but only purchased it 3 - 4 months ago.

I am worried about no nitrates, but atm my fish seem happy with no other problems for ph ammonia etc etc.

Will most likely get the local pet shop to test my water for nitrates, just to be sure.

What he was saying was, you should onbly use salt with livebarers to make the water brackish, or when your fish are sick.

Its not something you should just throw in when you feel like it.

There are better ways of raising pH, such as crushed coral.

 

[owen.h.lewis]

0 in nitrates? How long has the tank been cycled? There should always be nitrates in a healthy tank. They are the byproduct of the nitrogen cycle, and unless you have a fully planted tank, you should never see a zero reading.

Yes, I agree Robby, any number of things here seem odd.

Am I just misunderstanding about the filter media? Are there only polyfloss pads? Are there no sponges or ceramics to serve as biomedia?

I also do not understand about the salt. A need for salt is exceedingly rare. One of its few uses is for treatment of ich/white-spot.

Its important for us to know the manufacturer/model of the test kit and its expiration info. Normally one thinks quite a bit about what kit one will choose. But it does sound like you've got a liquid kit, right?

~~waterdrop~~

Hi Waterdrop,
With regards to the media filter, i have a spoge, which then has the polyfloss pad on top of that, and in addition i also have the filter wool. All underneath the spray bar. I also have bioballs in the filter.

The salts that i used are proper tropical salts, whcih raise the hardness and ph slightly, they are mean't to be used when i do a water change, to keep things normal. I by no means use table salt, or any other salts, this seems to be stock standard hardening salts that the lfs told me to use.

I have the liquid testing kit, i will look at the expiry date, but only purchased it 3 - 4 months ago.

I am worried about no nitrates, but atm my fish seem happy with no other problems for ph ammonia etc etc.

Will most likely get the local pet shop to test my water for nitrates, just to be sure.

What he was saying was, you should onbly use salt with livebarers to make the water brackish, or when your fish are sick.

Its not something you should just throw in when you feel like it.

There are better ways of raising pH, such as crushed coral.

Obviously i am not explaining myself clearly. The salts are used to make the water hard, not to raise the pH, this is just a small side effect, and its very minimal. How else would i turn extremely soft water to neutral or hard?!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Owen! You're probably right and its just communication! That's always the hardest part of a lot of this hobby stuff, just the transfer of the facts and ideas between distant strangers!

We tend to be quite "picky" about our "salts" here though, so perhaps we should all suffer through this a bit more. Now I'm not the best of the chemists here on TFF but luckily we've got a range of smart and perceptive people logging on here so we can usually get these things at least into a further muddle if not solved, lol.

Salt being a pretty general term, we should give it a try to figure out what its composed of. Why don't you take out your various bottles and containers of things you are adding to the tank and see if you can find any details on them to add for us. For instance, a baking soda box will say "sodium bicarbonate" somewhere on it.

The things I'm picturing you doing this for are:
1) the tropical salts that you're putting perhaps 3 teaspoons of in (the "stock standard hardening salts")
2) the "biotopal & another item" that you mentioned
3) the "correct pH 7.0 tablets"
4) the "bioclear"

Your post #11 (next to last) has cleared up a number of my earlier questions. Thanks for that! Its now clear you have a good set of different media in your filter. I don't see any problems there at this point. You also state clearly that you're using a liquid testing kit although I'm not sure if it covers all the test you're reporting or what brand of kit it is. Sometimes those details help us get a clearer picture.

For those with water that is very soft and acid, we have a couple of pretty regular approaches here in the beginners section: Those that are fishless cycling are advised to use regular kitchen baking soda to raise their total alkalinity and indirectly to raise the pH. This is faster and more flexible than the other method we use with fish, and its fine for the bacteria. For people with fish in the tank we usually advise the use of crushed coral (available cleaned and bagged at the LFS) put in meshed bags and ideally put inside the filter or alternatively hung in the stream of the filter output. It must be cleaned of debris and biofilms periodically by rinsing it in tap water.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[owen.h.lewis]

Hi Owen! You're probably right and its just communication! That's always the hardest part of a lot of this hobby stuff, just the transfer of the facts and ideas between distant strangers!

We tend to be quite "picky" about our "salts" here though, so perhaps we should all suffer through this a bit more. Now I'm not the best of the chemists here on TFF but luckily we've got a range of smart and perceptive people logging on here so we can usually get these things at least into a further muddle if not solved, lol.

Salt being a pretty general term, we should give it a try to figure out what its composed of. Why don't you take out your various bottles and containers of things you are adding to the tank and see if you can find any details on them to add for us. For instance, a baking soda box will say "sodium bicarbonate" somewhere on it.

The things I'm picturing you doing this for are:
1) the tropical salts that you're putting perhaps 3 teaspoons of in (the "stock standard hardening salts")
2) the "biotopal & another item" that you mentioned
3) the "correct pH 7.0 tablets"
4) the "bioclear"

Your post #11 (next to last) has cleared up a number of my earlier questions. Thanks for that! Its now clear you have a good set of different media in your filter. I don't see any problems there at this point. You also state clearly that you're using a liquid testing kit although I'm not sure if it covers all the test you're reporting or what brand of kit it is. Sometimes those details help us get a clearer picture.

For those with water that is very soft and acid, we have a couple of pretty regular approaches here in the beginners section: Those that are fishless cycling are advised to use regular kitchen baking soda to raise their total alkalinity and indirectly to raise the pH. This is faster and more flexible than the other method we use with fish, and its fine for the bacteria. For people with fish in the tank we usually advise the use of crushed coral (available cleaned and bagged at the LFS) put in meshed bags and ideally put inside the filter or alternatively hung in the stream of the filter output. It must be cleaned of debris and biofilms periodically by rinsing it in tap water.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the detailed post Waterdrop. It's hard for me to explain clearly as a lot of these posts are done at work. So i don't have the info available to me.

My tank seems to have settled, with pH being steady for the last week at 6.6. I am still worried about my kH and it's ability to dramatically swing my pH so i will look at trying to increase that at some stage.

As i said in my original post, it seems once i figure a problem out, another rears its head, as now 2 x neon tetra's have whitespot on their tails. I have treated the tank, and hope with the stable water conditions etc this will go away.

Half tempted to give my fish away to friends, and start from scratch!